just uh, this 2 days, uh for the next uh, for the disney young we means on stabilizing economic momentum through protective fiscal policies. uh, both china and also united states uh, trying to do calculate to it's always in groups, but uh uh, in contrast, i think kinda it has been very stable is policy, but china is being very calculate to as well because china is balancing short term as far as long term, but it was trying to steal, we don't know who the next person who is present. so we, we one way tried to avoid the, uh, president trump, to use china to a tech is domestic competitors. to to say with us here on our, to international up next on the cross talk peter levelland his guests discussed if we're seeing the end of the wednesday. bye for now the

the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm theater. lavelle is the clock ticking for ukraine's former president zalinski. it certainly appears so. it is hard to imagine him clinging to power after his arrogant meltdown in the oval office. can the european save him doubtful? maybe the ukrainian people should decide his fate, the cross sucking zelinski. i'm joined by my guest, matthew crossed and in washington. he is a professor of national security and director of academic transformation at bowie state university in virginia. we have changed address. he is a former us diplomat and

a former advisor to us senate republican leadership. all right, gentlemen, cross top rules and effect, that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciate it. okay, i'm going to cut to the chase. jeremy, are you in virginia here? the basic question of this from a fund, a mental question of this program is up. is that landscape finished? we seeing him exiting the stage. jim a i think the odds are very good. he'll be gone by may 1st just pulling the number out by year here. i mean look, as trump said to him in washington, he doesn't hold any cards. and everybody knows that's true. and europeans are still supporting him, but you know what? they don't hold any cards either. they don't have the money, they don't have the military equipment. they don't have the military production capacity. so they can talk a brave gain. but let's say somehow get the americans back on board to back. stop them further, boots on the ground and planes in the air as mr. storm reported. they're out of luck to at this point, only of the americans and the russians matter. and they will decide what happens

next. and the zalinski can view all the watch. i think the real question is is whether his sponsor. ready is in c, i a or m i 6 or wherever else decide that he needs to go. maybe we'll put him on the free example, put them on the per gym plan. if you won't leave it in matthew, i'll all the more so, i mean if you look at it, there's a, there's a silver lining to this. i mean, his awful behavior in the oval off is uh, it gives a reason, gives the trump administration to say, hey, we're done with this guy. okay. they didn't like him in the 1st place. he's a grifter, it is well known, and a trump has made it very clear that he does. he has no interest in furthering a war. biden started senselessly involving the united states that a confrontational proxy war with, with russia. trump has bigger ideas, so the zalinski did him a favor, matthew to, to a certain degree. that's true. i'm always a little hesitant when we, we start replacing meters and we're not exactly sure when it comes. we don't know,

hey the you hang on, hang on. at the end of my introduction, i said, maybe the ukrainian people should decide is paid. so i got, i covered all my bases that are go ahead mapping. no, no, i know, and it's not even so much about that. it's more about i just feel rush has also been very, very adamant over the years now saying, we don't really care who's in office in tier, right. as long as the neighborhood itself behaves the way we feel that it should, and we have the greatest power in the neighborhood. and that's, there's a certain amount of respect and a certain amount of acquiescence. and i don't mean that in a negative way is paid attention to the greatest power of the neighborhood. so asking could be in place and key if, as long as the sort of understood what the roles and the relationships are meant to be. and that's always been his biggest problem, you know, and tim, the, there's a, the french u. k. put a plan that there one a pass over to trump invasions, i'm quoting your temporary month long crews in the air on the seas and on energy

infrastructure. and then that's when the western troops will come in. and it's not been very well explained to me, jim, is the truth. is this a unilateral truth on the part of the ukrainians or the russians supposed to be invited in the street? because owens asked them in, oh, i'll tell you they're not interested. so what is all this plus are coming out of europe? these are all non starters, tim, as well as the yes, exactly. uh, is if the russians don't agree to it and these troops enter in essentially as combatants. i don't think that's what the british and french have in mind. stormer and the chrome came to washington to try to sweet talk. trump and back stopping them without which this is totally on viable, as is as large as the lensky goes, we had half a brain. he was come here, sign that stupid mineral deal, which doesn't mean much of that. he thinks that's a yes, mr. president. thank you, mr. president, hoping that he would get somehow the same kind of by end that stormer and um, a chronic,

we're trying to arrange at this point. i don't know. i think you're still going to go back to the well and try to find some way to tell the americans, if you can rage a truce with the russians, the russians say they won't settle for a sing far. they only work permit settlement, but i think that's still where their head is, that that's what they're going to try to do. i don't see how it's going to work. yeah, matthew, i mean, i think is also sorry peter, if i could just real quick jump in, is that what i've always believed? one of the biggest flaws of what happened in the oval office last week was the simple fact that when zalinski has been 3 years traveling all over the world, that alone wasn't near it. but all over the world where he has been constantly fed in lauded and praised. and you can sort of buy into your own kula, you know, you're drinking your uncle late at that point. and i think he probably came to washington dc thinking, well, i'll be able to influence from despite whatever trumpet said in the past as far as what his positions are. and maybe, as james mentions the french and the english also thought they'd be able to maneuver that. but it always amazes me in this conflict overall is that certain

sides of always stated very unequivocally where they stand and what they believe in . and just the other side is tempted to say, well, you don't really mean that though, right? we can, we can change that can't, well, you know, like, no, no, you can't change that. this is what we believe. and we just refuse to, to buy into what they're telling us. and that's put us into problems for you. i'm that they did this the follow up of what you were say. i've been reading reports earlier today that doesn't. lensky had had been meeting with congressional democrats. and it's been suggested through this reporting that, that he take the stand that he did in the oval office. believing that that trump could be a would be a pushover. and obviously that didn't work out well, it's the democratic party that's also the problem here. matthew, wouldn't you agree if that's true and i will, if it's the truth, if, if that's true, i would say what that really indicates more than anything else is how much the

democratic party has still not learned any lessons from the election. that just last that it's taking positions that are on tenable is taking positions that are not realistic. and as a result, defeat comes from it. yeah, that's actually disappointing into, i mean again, if you just look at the main broad cheats in, in, well legacy media, they keep talking about a europe and peace plan, but they're not talking about peace at all. they're talking about the continuation of the conflict, and somehow i hate using the term, but grading a back stop where the americans will come to the rescue. the europeans are not talking about peace at all. they want more, they are the, are the party of war. jim edison added speech that's an immediate hex upset of the forest goes in. it could not be a need to a force with an article 5 guarantee. but this is this, i think, a low dollar to democrats, but i think the europeans also want to try to trick for trump administration into

approving such a backstop. knowing that it would not be there to police a piece, but find some way to continue the war. and get the americans involved in this war with a day to a force. so i don't think was just the democrats advising zalinski to do is, i think, was a voices from europe as well. i would say primarily from great britain, because after all care storm or nothing sees the leader of the free world. so i think there's a bigger agenda going on here because look, george street, there's only excuse not his own man. he doesn't have much agency. he's a puppet for the people who for his strings. the question was who pulled his strings when he met with truck. yeah, well and, and i think matthew's right he, you know, he's been drinking his own cool aid here. i've never, never be getting a push back to you under land. the so called the president of the european commission, jesus, in the last few hours europe is going to, he announced a $150000000000.00 euro defends a plan. matthew, where's that money going to come from?

and that anybody in the european union has anybody asked about that? okay, i mean, they're, they want a perpetual war. they want militarization of the european economy, which is in the dumps right now. that can only come from cutting social welfare programs. not a good idea, matthew, you know, and also it sort of it to an earlier point. you were mentioning peter, i've written about this quite extensively, and it's not a popular opinion here in america. but most of this positioning in that terms of probably not ukraine militarily, in this conflict, the entire 3 years never really had a possible realistic objective of we mean a war is in upside, russia is defeated, the war is over and ukraine wins. instead, what happens is just simply, we use ukraine as the meat grinder and we just sort of inflict damage and we can rush as much as we can just for the sake of doing that. and that's really the only through objective. and that is the one area of what i've tried to mention before

people accuse me of being a show for us or, or i'm in the back pocket of food in the long side. trump is the simple fact that this is parting ukraine. when you have this position, because it's the you mentioned, it's an endless stalemate. it's a meat. the meat grinder is in ukraine. it's not anywhere else. so if you just continue along with no in the people, ultimately you're hurting this the ukrainians more than anyone else. yeah, well um, essentially what the reason why they're doing this is because the crane is losing and it's losing badly at gym. and this is where we get this desperation or, i mean, you know, looking at the proclamation is coming out of europe. i caught you, i call it officially sponsored paranoia and the russians are going to take paris any minute now, didn't you? didn't you know that, jim? well, you know, i, i, this is everything that's just been said. i think there's another institutional ingredient. look, we've seen raised for the 1st time by eli musk by a representative massey. i think a center lead from utah. the ideas of the americans might actually leave nato. and,

and of course, this is something i've been, you know, calling for for years. because remember on like a treaty that has to get through the said the president could pull us out by his own signature just like trump did from the i n f treaty and bush did with the abm treaty. i think that terrifies them. it also purifies the e you, because what is that you? it's not much more than nato's concubine. so you've got people like uh they don't have a fond of lion and kaya carlos or somebody like this. i think they're terrified that at some point if the americans try to europe lose, your individual european countries are gonna start looking out for their own interest rather than what these new york result our gym is. we hit the break here, may be with the u. s. will pull out it's back, stop as i say, the europeans would sober up and actually negotiate something. oh, come on. i know it's they being capable right now, but they might have to be forced. all right, i'm not, no gentleman. we're going to,

i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on so lensky say, without the least russian states. never as tight as i'm sort of the most sense community best most i'll send send up the send, the 65, the keys on i need to progress be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media mission the state on the russians per day and split the r t. suppose next, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services. what question did you say from stephen twist, which is the,

he mentioned all the sites area might tons of the images of alice far as far as sets and of course, freezing temperatures. now, while you might have the wrong sort of any of those things today, we'll show you a different side to side barrier. one way ancient traditions may cutting edge innovation the during world war 2, the germans with the help of the show. the creation revolutionary movement that the independent state of croatia transported. hundreds of people have no way to work in force, labor camps. the germans wanted the work force to build roads and the infrastructure in norway. so when they couldn't get enough prisoners from serbia,

they contacted through social and the install of these camps to you had the death rate up to 82 percent each, which she's actually a higher done in the ultimate among the, with dozens of children. lloyd did the george a boy, but not that you will not be able to go to the coast to this in the woods and yet type the owner's school. that'd be good to to this is such a good exercise in good faith that they had the horrible conditions except from the t lease. many people died from surveys, a hunger as diseases. very few made it back home was for some of the 2 of the the magic drove and they will not impose you but you know, and that was the us and this is what i mean on monday. all the welcome back. across stuff were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. true manager were discussing zalinski

the okay, now were joined by patrick hennings and in plymouth. he is the editor in founder of 21st century wired. come welcome to the program. patrick belatedly. but welcome, i, i don't know how much of the program you've already heard, but i want to go right to the u. k. prime minister. he said this and the last new cycle. russia is a menace in our waters, in our air space. and on our streets, obviously he's trying to imitate churchill in some form or another very badly i would say. so patrick, you're in plymouth right now. right. right now. yes, that's okay. uh, can you look out the window? are there any rushing troops on the streets? no, i the i'm, if i, if i'm listening to the u. k. prime minister that that's the assumption that you draw patrick. i hate to disappoint you peter. yeah there's, there's no sign at all of of the red army patrolling the streets of plymouth. no.

uh, uh this, and this is of the federal association of, of history the, the, hitler eyes ation of the russian president. these are all problems that are emblematic of everything that has gotten europe into this mindset right now, which is a very dangerous mindset. and they can't pull themselves out, is just quite extraordinary that is curious storm or is that i think political called him the the leader of the free world. now, according to the headline this morning, and it's, it's so funny how it's kind of brought a britain back together with europe, you know, breaks it and everything, bury the hatchet. we're all together all for $11.00 for all. and this is called me, this is your own 8. 0, now this is natal without the united states. but the problem is the main card that they've been playing for the last 3 years is the threat of an article 5 trap or

like a trip wire. and are they going to get that article 5 trapped with without the united states? you see, because everything hinges on that threat of the old, you know, the ultimate war that breaks out. oh, is attack on one? is it attack on all? this is what everybody has been banding about in europe in order to poke russia and ukraine was supposed to be the ultimate trip wire, zalinski himself. so this is my mission. this is the reason for my existence is to bring ukraine into nato. and if that's not going to happen, which doesn't. yeah, but he's going to happen. yeah. but he was, he was on the casting couch and he got the job. okay. so i'm not sure if it's his mission. it was the people that hired them. a matthew, you know, we had the french president again in the last new cycle. but, you know, if we don't, and i'm paraphrasing right now, we don't stop the russians now they're going to be in mail, dove in romania. i mean, does he have any knowledge of geography?

is advisors have any knowledge of geography? how are they going to get there? they're going to have to go through all of ukraine. i mean, these people are imbeciles, matthew? well, i think what's funny is how we use we don't even have to go that far back in the history. we can do just more recent history, modern history, to know the absurdity of, of the paranoia that it would just spoken about is russia didn't do anything with the baltics join made up. it didn't do anything when poland join made it. it didn't do anything when hungry joined may, though it didn't do anything when jesse are joining nato. but now that they were flirting with ukraine and it always at all from the very beginning, ukraine is our red line. we can't allow this for multiple and many reasons. please believe us, that we're not bluffing. and we challenge the bloss obviously. but so right, you're telling me that russian is going to spend 3 years going through the meat grinder that to crane. and that's their leaping pad into the earlier places that they could have jumped without any interference. it's just, it's a, it's a logical,

it's a logical in a rational. so you just make sure i have to ask, why do we talk that way? and i think it was mentioned earlier by a buyer, a new guest is that that feeds the panic that has its own agenda, an interest in europe, if we can make people afraid of the russians again, the way we used to be afraid of the soviets then we can do certain things in our own, in our own neighborhood that we want to have the defense wise, militarily, european power wise. yeah, well tim, i would advise your opinions to be afraid of their leaders. they're more of a threat to their life. and then then the russians are, you know, tim, it's interesting is that, you know, we've had nato, which is the european security architecture. it was designed without russia and against russia. they want to redo this all over again. they do not want to be in a position the european side is to negotiate with the russians. that's the fundamental error jim a. well, that's right. i mean, look at what was the original formula americans in russians out,

germans down and you can write that large as europeans down. you know, we, we talked earlier about will, will ukrainian, and people at some point decide to replace the landscape. i mean, right. i remember that the other russian demands are d not certification demilitarization. something's gotta change in what has ever left of ukraine. and i think the same fear exists in other european capitals that the leaders, they currently have these, these, these people who are really, i think traders of their own nations. they need to read to be replaced as well to at some point the peoples of europe, whether they will, english germans differential ever need to decide that they need better leaders and the ones they have that you know, patrick. over the last few weeks i've been debating, discussing, with my guess like a yell to 2 point o and more specifically on nicks and goes to china in reverse. i think this is, you know, this is what trump is thinking about if he can do it. i don't know, but i think that's what really motivates him. and on top of it, you know,

when you have the british and the ukrainians yelling at the top of their lungs, trump remembers russia, russia, russia, they're not scoring any points with him at all. the is trump thinking big picture, and i want my audience now i have a lot of problems with a tron, this foreign policy, but not on this issue. patrick. now what do you say? you alter to point out, peter, you know that, but i don't, i don't rage. i don't say it in a negative way. i don't think it's a dirt. oh no, no, no, it's not. it's not. but you remember you all to it was the winners of world war 2 coming together. so, so what trump is doing is trying to re position himself to be on the winning side. he doesn't want to go down with this disastrous proxy war. this vanity project is i'd like to call it nato's vanity project. europe's vanity project, trump wants to be on that you all to stage with vladimir putin and whoever else is sensible in stain enough to want to sit next to them to make it a, you know,

a try factor. so this is the other problem is europeans have sculpted the language . you guys have talked about this previously, this unprovoked war or, or pollutants or of choice, the full scale invasion, full scale invasion. yeah. right. okay. there's a reason for this and even all the troops about the budapest, memorandum, and russia invading georgia in 2008. all these things are on these watch. we're drawing heavy rotation because they want to preclude any chance of diplomacy. so they're, they're built, they've been building a narrative. that rusher can't be trusted to do diplomacy. they'll never abide by any zalinski. did it again when he sat in the, in the oval office put in as violated all the seats fires, gluten violated the mixed agreements. we tried, but put in can't be trusted, that's what this is for. and then the other thing is reparations. the whole thing about ukraine being destroyed, most of the damages in russian control is going to be in russian controlled areas. they're going to be doing the reconstruction. russia is,

but the want to extract reparations. what, what's that? that's the $300000000000.00 plus in russian assets and reserves and risk escrow and euro clear. so they're, they're making a play for that. par lang that as quote reparations and then the reparations that play get shared amongst western europeans and perhaps america, a black rock and whoever it's a heist is what it is. it's a k for 8. what i need to add to the word patrick. same because i think there's a really great point to that isn't being talked about here in the states, at least that when it comes to you also 2 point oh and only mixing, you're going to china. really a critical element of both of those situations was that in terms of, in this case, the quote unquote adversary, russian and china were more respected like as legitimate partners on a global stage. and there are too many actors on the western side right now that are really steadfast, determined to prevent russia from having that kind of position, that it will not be allowed to have any respect on the global stage. and russia has

spoken about this openly for years, is that part of this maneuvering in ukraine has been the idea that you, we will make you see us because up to now you refuse to see us. you will not listen and you won't see. so this is the only thing you're going to respond to and, and it's just ridiculous because when you see what's going on in god, in the sense of the full scale invasion, just google image, gaza and google image downtown p of. and so let me see, let me see if you can compare full scale invasions like gotcha, that's absolutely spot on here too. i could say you wanted to jump in, go ahead. yeah, yeah, just a, just to pick up all you said about nixon to china. it wouldn't, matthew said about providing some respect to russia. i mean, look of china and, and the soviet union were all very much at odds back in the days of dixon. i think that part of the thinking of washington would be, not only can we do a reverse mission to try to, but we can somehow drive the russians and the chinese

a partner. i think that's part of whatever strategic thinking is going on. i'm sure the russians are aware of that, and that's not gonna work. so i, you know, again, i think part of the, the basis of what is a seems to be the attempt here on the part of washington is isn't going to come to fruition. yeah, patrick. yeah i, i take it on board. what you said about the winter is that you all to absolutely brilliant observation and that's what trump is. that's what trump wants because he wants the major powers going back to a early 20th century 19th century paradigm. the only difference is the u. k is thought at the table and that's why there's so angry, they made themselves so irrelevant. go ahead and i'll say this is the big danger right now is if the united states pulls out of ukraine or is not occupying that diplomatic and that geo political space, there's a danger that in that vacuum someone else can slide in and cause a lot of trouble like britain, for instance, that would drag the united states back in later, after provocations against russia,

who's been behind all these provocations every time there's been a potential breakthrough. all of a sudden zalinski attacks targets inside mainland russia. this happened time and time again, or something happens. and so these provocations could really cause trouble and it could be forced to us back in that to me is a huge risk. and trump and the united states have to be very careful that they don't, uh, you know, to come to that kind of an outcome. because that would be, could potentially be a disaster. that is going to cause a whole nother well face any problem in my defense. i've got a lot of push back a few weeks ago even a couple of months ago. but i said this could always escalate. and now i think this is where we are right now. the foolishness in short sightedness of the europeans. they obviously want to escalate. i hope the russians and a trump don't fall forward gentlemen. absolutely fascinating conversation, much appreciated, and that's all the time we have one to think up my guess in watching in virginia

and in plymouth. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, cross on the the to fix here, this thing is most precious to smells like probably mobile device of who to the junior couple ocean. just the switch to the, the machine you want to grow. and can you pick what i chose prestone, could you tell them by somebody, the

newsletter to sign up for the to, to come out are still doing stuff with both of them. don't know if you don't got to deal with the dark sticking session on problems. cordova within the take a fresh look around his life kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground? can

the, the, the us is no longer sharing intelligence with ukraine, according to a fox news reporters citing the countries by cheap as far as the white house, the decision to officially cut all military a tick. yeah. after donald trump's public route with a lot of measurements deep. earlier today, i received an important letter from president zalinski of ukraine. the letter res ukraine is ready to come to the negotiating table as soon as possible with the us pumping. the brakes on your credit in a p, i was taking a sharp view turn. zalinski is now eager to sign a mineral deal with washington and claims. he wants peace more than any one of the kremlin vows to.