solid point it's the single specs is the 3 years on the they are at us think about a senior sitting boss to have the machine cost as the on the i small they are, but also as long as the, this is a very nice i guess about a few as a gustavo store of executive branch i to there's that could have, as for those who killed the vet for me, those are the people who will get people that have nothing to lose their lose their homes. they have. if you try the work, it's high, so there are some types of unemployment develop. it was birth boulevard. if you saw in this, in the winter season, the people were suppressed. it's exactly like the successive and they're on the 4th to the best of the kids. are going to see everything, but when they move out for us to move out of that, a few steps, i'm going to go back home. i was gonna post sorta built the do most homes by the idea of august, this have been for the for star. so 67 live from ramallah, giving us the updates mohammed know tape local journalist site to on talk to you

soon. thank you. nice. the question has been raised many times this week. tell me the europeans keep the lens getting power. it's being uttered in groton, car doors, government cabinet rims, right acr. busy us the comes in on next, our debate show cross talk, talk of the issues, head on peter, and guess get going in the the the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered on peter lavelle is the clock ticking for ukraine's former president zalinski it certainly appears so it is hard to imagine him clinging to power after his arrogant meltdown in the

oval office. can the european save him doubtful? maybe the ukrainian people should decide his fate, the cross stockings zalinski i'm joined by my guest. matthew cross been in washington, he is a professor of national security and director of academic transformation at bowie state university in virginia. we have changed address. he is a former us diplomat and a former advisor to us senate republican leadership. all right, gentlemen, cross stop rules and effect, that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciate it. okay, i'm going to cut to the chase. jim, are you in virginia here? the basically question of this problem of fundamental question of this program is, is that lensky finished? we seeing him exiting the stage. jim? or? i think the odds are very good. he'll be gone by may 1st just pulling a number out of my year here. i mean, look, as trump said to him in washington,

he doesn't hold of the cards and everybody knows that's true. and europeans are still supporting him. but you know what? they don't hold any cards either. they don't have the money, they don't have the military equipment. they don't have the military production capacity, so they can talk a brave gain, but unless they somehow get the americans back on board to back stop in for their boots on the ground and planes in the air as mr. storm reported. they're out of luck to at this point, only of the americans and the russians matter and they will decide what happens next. and let's get confused while we want. so i think the real question is, is whether his sponsor. ready is in c, i a or am i 6 or wherever else decide that he needs to go? maybe we'll put him on the free and i will put them on the per jim plan if you won't leave. well and, and matthew, i'll all the more so, i mean, if you look at it, there's a, there's a silver lining to this. i mean, his awful behavior in the oval office. it gives a reason gives the trump administration to say, hey,

we're done with this guy. okay, they didn't like him in the 1st place, he's a grifter, it is well known, and a trump has made it very clear that he does. he has no interest in furthering a war. biden started senselessly involving the united states that a confrontational proxy war with, with russia. trump has bigger ideas, so the zalinski did him a favor, matthew, to, to a certain degree. that's true, i'm always a little hesitant when we we start replacing leaders and we're not exactly sure that it comes out on know, hey the you hang on, hang on. at the end of my introduction, i said, maybe the ukrainian people should decide is made. so i got, i covered all my bases that are go ahead mapping. no, no, i know, and it's not even so much about that. it's more about i just feel rush has also been very, very adamant over the years now saying, we don't really care who's in office in tier, right. as long as the neighborhood itself behaves the way we feel that it should. and we have the greatest power in the neighborhood, and that's there is

a certain amount of respect and a certain amount of acquiescence. and i don't mean that in a negative way is paid attention to the greatest power of the neighborhood. the landscape could be in place and key if, as long as the sort of understood what the roles and the relationships are meant to be. and that's always been his biggest problem. you know, and tim, the, there's a, the french u. k. put a plan that there one a pass over to trump invasions, i'm quoting your temporary month long crews in the air on the seas and on energy infrastructure. and then that's when western troops will come in. and it's not been very well explained to me, jim, is the truth. is this a unilateral truth on the part of the ukrainian so the russians supposed to be invited into the street because owens asked them in, oh, i'll tell you they're not interested. so what is all this plus are coming out of europe? these are all non starters, tim, or was it they? yes, exactly. uh if, if the russians don't agree to it and these troops enter in essentially as

combatants. i don't think that's what the british and french have in mind stormer and the chrome came to washington to try to sweet talk, trump and back, stopping them without which this is totally on viable, as is as large as the lensky goes, we had half a brain he was come here, sign that stupid mineral deal, which doesn't mean much of that. he thinks that's a yes, mr. president. thank you, mr. president hoping that he would get somehow the same kind of by end, that stormer and mccormick were trying to arrange at this point, i don't know, i think they're still going to go back to the well and try to find some way to tell the americans if you can rage a truce with the russians. the russians say they won't settle for as far they only work permit settlement, but i think that's still what their head is, that that's what they're going to try to do. i don't see how it's going to work. yeah, matthew, i mean, i think is also so i, peter, if i could just real quick jump in, is this that what i've always believed? one of the biggest flaws of what happened in the oval office last week was the simple fact that when zalinski has been 3 years traveling all over the world,

let alone western europe and all over the world where he has been constantly fed in lauded and praised and you can sort of buy into your own kula, you know, you're drinking your uncle late at that point. and i think he probably came to washington dc thinking, well, i'll be able to influence from despite whatever trump is that in the past as far as what is positions are. and maybe, as james mentions the french and the english also thought they'd be able to maneuver that. but it always amazes me in this conflict overall is that certain sides of always stated very unequivocally where they stand and what they believe in . and just the other side is tempted to say, well, you don't really mean that though, right? we can, we can change that, can't we into like, no, no, you can't change that. this is what we believe. and we just refuse to, to buy into what they're telling us. and that put us into problems for them that they did this, the follow up of what you're saying. i've been reading reports earlier today that as a lensky had had been meeting with congressional democrats. and it's been suggested

through this reporting that, that he take the stand that he did in the oval office. believing that that trump could be a would be a pushover. and obviously that didn't work out well, it's the democratic party that's also the problem here. matthew, wouldn't you agree if that's true and i will, if it's the truth, if, if that's true, i would say what that really indicates more than anything else is how much the democratic party has still not learned any lessons from the election. it just lost that it's taking positions that are on tenable estate team positions that are not realistic and as a result, defeat comes from it. yeah, that's actually disappointing into, i mean again, if you just look at the main broad seats in, in, well legacy media, they keep talking about a european piece plan, but they're not talking about piece at all. they're talking about the continuation

of the conflict. and somehow, i hate using the term, but grading a back stop, where the americans will come to the rescue. the europeans are not talking about peace at all. they want more, they are, the are the party of war. jim edison at a speech that's an immediate hex upset of the force goes in. it could not be a need to a force with an article 5 guarantee. but this is this, i think, the democrats, but i think the europeans also want to try the trip for trump administration into approving such a backstop. knowing that it would not be there to police of peace, but find some way to continue the war and get the americans involved in this war with a day to force. so i don't think was just the democrats advising as the landscape to do is, i think, was a voices from europe as well. i would say primarily from great britain, because after all, care storm or nothing sees the leader of the free world. so i think there's a bigger agenda going on here because what george d, as always,

he was not his own man. he doesn't have much agency. he's a poppy for the people who for his strings. the question was who pulled his strings when he met with truck? yeah, well and, and i think matthew's right he, you know, he's been drinking is own cool aid here. i've never, never be getting a push back here. i'm under laying the, the so called the president of the european commission, jesus in the last few hours europe is going to, he announced a $150000000000.00 euro defends a plan. matthew, where's that money going to come from? and did anybody in the european any, was anybody asked about that? okay, i mean, they're, they want a perpetual war. they want militarization of the european economy, which is in the dumps right now. that can only come from cutting social welfare programs. not a good idea, matthew, you know, and also is sort of it to an earlier point. you were mentioning peter, who i've written about this quite extensively, and it's not a popular opinion here in america, but most of this positioning and that terms of propping up ukraine militarily in

this conflict, the entire 3 years never really had a possible realistic objective a we mean, a more is in upside, russia is defeated, the war is over and ukraine wins instead. what happens is just simply, we use ukraine as the meat grinder and we just sort of inflict damage and weak and rough as much as we can. just for the sake of doing that, and that's really the only 2 objective and that is the one area of what i've tried to mention before. people accuse me of being a show for russia or i'm in the back pocket of food in the long side. trump is the simple fact that this is parting ukraine when you have this position because it's the, you mentioned, it's an endless fail me. it's a meat. the meat grinder is in ukraine. it's not anywhere else. so if you just continue along with no, when the people ultimately you're hurting this the ukrainians more than anyone else . yeah, well um, essentially what the reason why they're doing this is because the crane is losing

and it's losing badly at gym. and this is where we get this desperation or, i mean, you know, looking at the proclamation is coming out of europe, i caught you, i call it officially sponsored paranoia. and the russians are going to take paris any minute now, didn't you? didn't you know that, jim? well, you know, i, i, this is everything that's just been said. i think there's another institutional ingredient. look, we've seen raised for the 1st time by eli musk by a representative massy. i think a center lead from utah. the idea is that the americans might actually leave nato. and, and of course, this is something i've been calling for for years. because remember on like a treated that has to get through the setup, the president could pull us out by his own signature just like trump did from the i there pretty and boosted with the abm treaty. i think that terrifies them. it also purifies the you cause what is the you it's not much more than nato's concubine. so you've got people like uh they don't want a fond of lion and kaya carlos or somebody like this. i think they're terrified

that at some point if the americans try to europe lose, your individual european countries are gonna start looking out for their own interest rather than what these new york results are. jim is we hit the break here, may be with the us will pull out, it's back, stop as i say, the europeans would sober up and actually negotiate something. oh, come on. i know it's there, inc. capable right now, but they might have to be forced. all right, i'm not, no gentleman, we're going to, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on zalinski say without the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real live indians. fixtures, design to simplify will confuse really once a better wills,

and is it just because it shows you a few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground can the after the nazis, bower in italy, states foreign policy became extremely aggressive benito, mussolini needed glorious victories. he decided to achieve his ambitions in africa . despite the fact that formally libya had become an italian colony back in 1912. the vast territories of this country were not actually controlled by rome. the nazis decided to put an end to this. but as soon as the religious order of the

senate side stood in their way, the arabs did not want to submit to for an hour and put up fierce resistance. dividers against colonialism were led by the seats of the senate side order. omar l move star, who was nick named the lion of the desert for his incredible courage. despite the violent, bombardments and voice and gas usage, mass deportations, and the imprisonment of the local population in concentration camps, the invaders could not cope with the arrow patriots for a decade. in 1931, omar l move star was captured and sentenced a hanging at the trial, the hero of the libyan people behaved very bravely and rejected. pardon. pursuing a policy of genocide, italy was only able to temporarily suppress libya, 18th of the entire population. more than 100000 people fell victim to their. however, just a few years later, the entail you enroll, collapsed. in 1951,

libya became one of the 1st countries in africa to gain independence. the welcome back across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to manual discussing zalinski the ok. now we're joined by patrick headings and in plymouth. he is the editor in founder of 21st century wire. com. welcome to the program. patrick belatedly. but welcome. um i, i don't know how much of the appropriate move already heard, but i want to go right to the u. k. prime minister. he said this and the last new cycle, russia is a menace in our waters in our air space. and on our streets. obviously, he's trying to imitate churchill in some form or another very badly i would say. so patrick, you're in plymouth right now. right. right now, yes it is. okay. uh,

can you look out the window, are there any rushing troops on the streets? no, on the i'm if i, if i'm listening to the u. k. prime minister. that that's the assumption that you draw patrick, i hate to disappoint you. peter, yeah there's, there's no sign at all of, of the red army patrolling the streets of plymouth know this, and this is of the fed association of, of history the, the, hitler eyes ation of the russian president. these are all problems that are emblematic of everything that has gotten europe into this mindset right now, which is a very dangerous mindset and they can't pull themselves out, is just quite extraordinary that is curious storm or is that i think political called him the, the leader of the free world now, according to the headline this morning, and it's, it's so funny how it's kind of brought a britain back together with europe,

you know, breaks it and everything. bury the hatchet. we're all together all for $11.00 for all. and this is called nate, this is your own 8. 0, now this is natal without the united states. but the problem is the main card that they've been playing for the last 3 years is the threat of an article 5 trap or like a trip wire. and are they going to get that article 5 trapped with without the united states? you see, because everything hinges on that threat of the old, you know, the ultimate or that breaks out all is attack on one. is that attack on all? this is what everybody has been banding about in europe in order to poke russia and ukraine was supposed to be the ultimate trip wire. zalinski himself said this is my mission. this is the reason for my existence is to bring ukraine into nato. and if that's not going to happen, which doesn't. yeah, but it's going to happen. yeah. but he was, he was on the casting couch and he got the job. okay. so i'm not sure if it's his

mission. it was the people that hired them. a matthew, you know, we had the french president again in the last new cycle. but, you know, if we don't, and i'm paraphrasing right now, we don't stop the russians now they're going to be in mail, dove in romania. i mean, does he have any knowledge of geography? is advisors have any knowledge of geography? how are they going to get there? they're going to have to go through all of ukraine. i mean, these people are imbeciles, matthew? well, i think what's funny is how we, we don't even have to go that far back in the history we can do just more recent history, modern history to know the absurdity of, of the paranoia that it would just spoken about is russia didn't do anything with the baltics join made it, it didn't do anything with poland, join made it. it didn't do anything when hungry joined may, though it didn't do anything when sheffield joining nato. but now that they were flirting with ukraine and it always at all from the very beginning you cream is our red line. we can't allow this for multiple and many reasons. please believe us,

that we're not bluffing. and we challenge the bloss, obviously, but so right, you're telling me that russian is going to spend 3 years going through the meat grinder, that's ukraine. and that's their leaving pad into the earlier places that they could have jumped without any interference. it's just, it's a, it's a logical, it's a logical in a rational. so you just make sure have to ask, why do we talk that way? and i think it was mentioned earlier by a buyer, a new guest is that that feeds the panic that has its own agenda, an interest in europe, if we can make people afraid of the russians again, the way we used to be afraid of the soviets then we can do certain things in our own, in our own neighborhood that we want to have the defense wise, militarily european power wise. yeah, well, to me, i would advise your opinions to be afraid of their leaders. they're more of a threat to their life. and then then the russians are, you know, tim, it's interesting is that, you know, we've had nato, which is the european security architecture. it was designed without russia and

against russia. they want to redo this all over again. they do not want to be in a position the europeans that is to negotiate with the russians. that's the fundamental error jim. well, that's right. i mean, look, what was the original formula americans in russians out, germans down and you can write that large as europeans down. you know, we, we talked earlier about, well, we'll ukrainian, and people at some point decide to replace the landscape. i mean, right. i remember that the other russian demands are, do you not certification demilitarization? something's got to change and what is ever left of ukraine? and i think the same fear exists in other european capitals that the leaders, they currently have these, these, these people who are really, i think traders their own nations. they need to be replaced as well to at some point the peoples of europe, whether they will english german differential ever need to decide that they need better leaders and the ones they have that you know, patrick. over the last few weeks i've been debating, discussing,

with my guess like a yell to 2 point o and more specifically on nicks and goes to china in reverse. i think this is, you know, this is what trump is thinking about if he can do it. i don't know, but i think that's what really motivates him. and on top of it, you know, when you have the british and the ukrainians yelling at the top of their lungs, trump remembers russia, russia, russia, they're not scoring any points with him at all. the is trump thinking big picture and i want my audience now. i have a lot of problems with a drums foreign policy, but not on this issue. patrick. or when you say, you alter to point out peter, you know that, but i don't, i don't rage. i don't say it in a negative way. i don't think it's a dirt. oh no, no. no, it's not. it's not. but you remember you all to it was the winners of world war 2 coming together. so. so what trump is doing is trying to re position himself to be on the winning side. he doesn't want to go down with this disastrous proxy war.

this vanity project is i'd like to call it nato's vanity project. europe's vanity project, trump wants to be on that you all to stage with vladimir putin and whoever else is sensible, insane enough to want to sit next to them to make it a you know, a try factor. so this is the other problem is europeans have scope through the language. you guys have talked about this previously, this unprovoked war or, or pollutants or of choice, the full scale invasion, full scale invasion. yeah. right. okay. there's a reason for this and, and even all the troops about the budapest, memorandum and russia invading georgia in 2008. all these things are on these watch . we're drawing heavy rotation because they want to preclude any chance of diplomacy. so they're, they're built, they've been building a narrative. that rusher can't be trusted to do diplomacy, they'll never abide by any zalinski. did it again when he suddenly in the oval

office put 10 is violated all the seats fires and gluten violated the minced agreements. we tried, but boots and can't be trusted, that's what this is for. and then the other thing is reparations. the whole thing about ukraine being destroyed, most of the damages in russian control is going to be in russian control. there's, they're going to be doing the reconstruction. russia is, but the want to extract reparations. what, what's that, that's the $300000000.00 plus in russian assets and reserves and risk escrow and euro clear. so they're, they're making a play for that. par lang that as quote reparations and then the reparations that play get shared amongst western europeans and perhaps america, a black rock and whoever it's a heist is what it is. it's a k for 8 when i just add to the word patrick. same because i think there's a really great point to that isn't being talked about here in the states, at least that when it comes to you also 2 point oh and the only mixing you're going to china, really a critical element of both of those situations was that in terms of, in this case,

the quote unquote adversary russian and china were more respected like as legitimate partners on a global stage. yep. and well, there are too many actors on the western side right now that are really steadfast, determined to prevent russia from having that kind of position, that it will not be allowed to have any respect on the global stage. and russia has spoken about this openly for years, is that part of this maneuvering in ukraine has been the idea that you, we will make you see us because up to now you refuse to see us. you will not listen and you won't see. so this is the only thing you're going to respond to and, and it's just ridiculous because when you see what's going on in gaza, in the sense of the full scale invasion, just google image, gaza and google image downtown p of. and so let me see, let me see if you can compare full scale and visions like gotcha, that's absolutely spot on here too. i could say you wanted to jump in, go ahead. yeah, yeah, just a just to pick up. all of you said about nixon to china. it wouldn't,

matthew said about providing some respect to russia. i mean, look of china and, and the soviet union were all very much at odds back in the days of dixon. i think that part of the thinking of washington would be not only can we do a reverse mission to try to, but we can somehow drive the russians and the chinese a partner. i think that's part of what our strategic thinking is going on. i'm sure the russians are aware of that, and that's not gonna work. so i, you know, again, i think part of the, the basis of what is it seems to be the attempt here on the part of washington is isn't going to come to fruition. yeah. patrick, yeah i, i take it on board. what you said about the winter is that you all to absolutely brilliant observation. and that's what trump is. that's what trump wants because he wants to major powers. going back to a early 20th century 19th century paradigm, the only difference is the u. k is bought at the table and that's why there's so angry, they made themselves so irrelevant. go ahead and i'll say this is the big danger

right now is if the united states pulls out of ukraine is, or is not occupying that diplomatic and that geo political space. there's a danger that in the vacuum, someone else can slide in and cause a lot of trouble, like britain, for instance, that would drag the united states back in later, after provocations against russia, who's been behind all these provocations every time. there's been a potential breakthrough. all of a sudden zelinski attacks targets inside mainland russia is happened time and time again or something happens. and so these provocations could really cause trouble and it could both force the us back in that to me is a huge risk. and trump and the united states have to be very careful that they don't, uh, you know, to come to that kind of an outcome. because that would be, could potentially be a disaster. that is going to cause a whole nother well face any problem in my defense. i've got a lot of push back a few weeks ago. even a couple of months ago that i said this could always escalate. and now i think this

is where we are right now. the foolishness and short side and you said the europeans, they obviously want to escalate. i hope the russians and a trump don't fall for gentlemen. absolutely fascinating conversation, much appreciated, and that's all the time we have one to think up my guess in washington, virginia and in plymouth. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember, cross on the the, you mention all side area, mike comes up images for unless forrest barnstead and of course we're using temperatures. now while you might have the wrong sort of any of those things today, we'll show you a different side to side barrier. one way ancient traditions meet cutting edge innovation the,

the only people breeze them please when you appear to put the, the, the effect of just good to ignore those are right and the order to limit the more of the church. as i mentioned that enough for me with the navy in the the but i to even, i still have an order for no reason to tell or should i just click on the news list, any slide list the room that is on key out of my breast mistress to rescue the way that will be the one that sure. and then for example, that patients of the like well, maybe the

washington is no longer sharing intelligence with ukraine. the news follows the white house officially holding on military aid to keep it after loving their zalinski is disastrous, oval office meetings with donald trump, europe 6 to present a united front to edit support of key it, but trucks are beginning to show us the officials confirmed they can come up with a common problem. we discussed the matter with a former additional maker and feeble that too late cause pulled out on what you might call the london track. i don't have the titled sold about french military independence. so really storm uh is uh up the creek without a $5.00 versus agents.