what was left on the line once that's right, this is referring to the testing phase. that's right, to an alleged most imagined russian invasion of, of the nato europe itself, in other words, beyond ukraine. and i think that's crazy on all kinds of levels and see what she is doing is the same as mike home. so they simply using this for their own internal political ends. and we'll have to see if they succeed. i'd personally, i'm skeptical that they will succeed, but i have little doubt now that they are going to try for that is going to do for me for now here on our to international. but do stay with us. my colleague union o'neill is in next in half an hour with mornings by the

this is the moon, but he must say, lloyd gentlemen, got their own guy in good yonder district in the roof valley in the republic of k. yeah. and as we continue to talk about africa, one can never quite the, you know, the international dimensions given that there was, is in many ways, a globe of age. the conversation that we uh, engaged in is so allies, the relationship between russia and the united states of america, and its implications to the world and of costs in the cost of that discussion. we cannot help, but also talk about africa in that scenario. because africa, inescapably become very important as the ripples, the 3,

not only of human resources, but specifically because of the natural resources that she has on the hub barely. so whenever we talk about negotiation, we must always have that history at the back of one mind. and when they are full of the will, between russia and ukraine started, it must be seen in the context of the collapse of the soviet union during the presidency of the governorship. and during that period, we remember that in 1909, 2 with the collapse of the body in wall one can vividly remember that then set free of the united states of america saying in the 1990 is that russia, which was now imagine from the soviet union should never see any threat from not though, because there would be no movement,

not on its extra to what the just those was, it was all set for real estate baker. but subsequently we started seeing something that is very interesting from europe. the continued growth of europe, particularly they repeated union to watch the east and consuming the number of countries, and i'm using the wide, consuming very deliberately and ultimately the expansion of nato to web, based on that as well. i think garage just said on the prism rad me to put in the really, you are in need you on the very undertaking that you may, you are now saying that george. yeah. will be a part of their opinion on possibly later part of late the us saying that's ukraine with the father of nathan us saying the lot the lift when yeah. and if possible, even better, those will be part of these european expansion. and therefore, you uh, bringing this threat to our very door steps. and it is because of that,

that there was what 1 may have called the cost of what the cost was bailey, between ukraine and so the rush. we now know that the war that is being prosecuted in ukraine to mutate that new data because then file western europe as we know it stopped and supplying ukraine with um and the united states of america during the administration of joe vitamin. almost said that we will not stop until the victory is one, invest in beyond god the moment the up to the admitting that the ukrainians as people and ukraine of the country was merely i'll see after the war. but what was being fought? was it russia on the western wide was in it so that when this wall was been

prosecuted in that manner, they refused. why or i just tell you that it must be one in the butter filled and europe must always be seen was the wide world in the context of the did the shape of the united states of america. so the parents may say the a bit. but the americans are the very head of it, which then brings into play the relationship between the united states of america on the rush and the by the administration was a what the should in dr. relationship because it became so very toxic on the books, the city of it can be understood in the context that you didn't initial presidency of donald trump. when donor trump became the president of the united states of america at the for the 5th, for the then there was 2 additions against the last year that they had been involved and did manipulate in favor of the drum. when the by the

administration came in. you can see that the relationship went solve on when the relationship went south. it did, in fact of the money in which the war in ukraine was being dealt with. but and this is unique in the relationships of countries, particularly when country is called nuclear arsenal. what sometimes has been described as mutually assured destruction as a deterrent even during these entire period, we have seen cooperation as between russia, unbelieving nighted states of america in critical areas in space, the russian space cent. if you may, is in the meeting,

find the melting point of many countries in terms of shed research in the optic region when research is being on the thick. and in areas that do with the climate change, there was, may never know about it. and they may never shout about it. there is collaboration when there is talk about nuclear, i'm and, and whether they any and developing nuclear, i'm in full is full or full as a means. the russians may have p a on may indeed be supporting the indian. but there is a box, the collaboration to ensure that it does nothing to generate to level that's completely unacceptable. and we also know that in the medical world, particularly during called with 9 thieves, they may and in fact, there is a dish, and there was gonna bush collaboration. how do you develop these vaccines? whether you're talking about the one down or you are talking about sports and it

does time. so one sees a was, which is very interesting. so that if one is amelia or casual observer, there was think that the diplomacy is only conducted on the basis of guns but diplomacy on sub buckling. but yet, the reality is that there is some in your nicole operation, which in itself very is in itself very important to ensure that the libyan is kate, could lead them is main things. and it may not be the kid, but look at the was now if you look like the was the united states of america. so i still want to concede us of as the international head jim on. so that if you look on the top prisons in the off with on the continent such as through the office on coal mine, you'd find the prisons in places such of this,

these shows in places such as you boutique. until very recently, in this, i had the in the jack and they have made jet drawn basis in those areas. so that off for clarity mains, us theater of influence. well, you know, the only place you a mid military austin. oh. but you also get some of the materials that you use to more met those very often olds when you are thinking about the utilization of. but if you show you just a different story, instead of against in warfare, re us, which is to be found in the democratic republic of congo and live fi um, which is does the sound in places like zimbabwe? and do you have any of which is to be found in praise? the site just good news yet. and the book, you know, fossil and the russians also not the beloved stopped. we know that there is the

russian presence in central african republic. we know that there is the russian presence industry done. we know that their options are playing a role now that the european powers and americans are recycling out of the site and region. and we know, for example, that even in the security or, you know, the beginning to train the point that the, you know, so the wild is very complicated. and the competition of the wild is informed by the fact if one was to now contextualize, is that the complication with regard to the continental vice versa? why is it that africa, despite the output decisions to the country, remains on the importance of, you know, or unimportant area for the united states of america? why is it that russia also has an interest in the continent of africa? is a number of reasons the countries may never say as loudly as they should. but the reality

is, is that if one is a power really tightly on economic lee, you want to be present in the continent, which is that it was that 3 of some of the resources that you need. how do you follow your industry is if you don't have you in your how do you follow a you a industries in the 21st century when you need to tell them when you need this thing? when you need to call them? when you need coal, both you want to be in this. yeah, you want to be in charge. you want to be nigeria, and that is across the board, the united states of america on to russia, as indeed it is. i've truck them to china, and those are the realities that we have to grapple with going forward. which then, bags that way, shifts during this short period when once so very for us,

the relationship between the united states of america under russia during the biden administration, that is now sewing no sooner had, don't know the drum entered into the white house that was so there was an immediate rep, prussia mall between the administration in the russia are led by like me to put in on, don't know, j. trump, in the united states of america on once again. say, if we are going to stop the will in ukraine, it will take russia on the united states of america, to midwife. this particular process. and it is done for us is that we are now seeing in motion, which tells us, and this is a very post world war 2 sonata, you, that's one of the wild is facing. the difficulty is somehow,

it takes the united states of america underbrush, which is the immediate success that of the soviet union to bundle. you know, the 2 brin know most of the world of close europe as a form of colonized. uh, we'd always been above ground. but 1st was, was due, the, i've always accepted the leadership of the united states of america in that for you . good advice. yeah, of course has always been up. wow. that speaks for itself. but in the background, one can say there has always been the tacit support of china, which you do, you are logically, is inclined on find that i see a lot easier to deal with. and this must also be seen as the very base is

why you have bricks, which is the counter wait, you know, a very interesting way to the bretton woods institutions. and once again, you see that there is that tension that is created by the imagine so bricks with the russia on the one side on the united states on the one side. so it is the what 1 may kind of derive if one is to be dramatic about it as a love hate relationship, but necessarily the relationship for purposes of creating the librium. the needs, particularly when the wild is truly still governed by the lot of the jungle survival of the fittest, on the dime of the least suitable and position of military. yes or no. does div any country is a well result to mix something to do minds and to be respected, even if they're reluctant to me. so that is 11 may say,

is the tenuous sort of measuring ships between russia and the united states of america and continental, such as africa which are struggling to find the space. find themselves sometimes in the crossfire and confuse as to who to align with. but one old son prays that africa would find a footing on we no longer simply play the gooseberry in this contestation because it is necessary for based on from quality in the world. we have focused on the relationship between russia and the united states of america. and its implications for africa and of course there was but let us take a short break as we continue our conversation, the

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