or as of this, it will result sort of like the hello and welcome to was a part know you'll market deliver the goods mine your looks and manners and leave emotions at the door had voted him as the landscape relied on those tips from the are the big deal. now he's torn a stab in the oval office may have resulted in something more amicable. but the ukranian president shows a different tactic one os, or favorite by donald trump. never admitting mistakes and repeating the same thing over and over again. what is between the 2 presidents and their respective countries? to discuss that, i'm now i'm joined by the mitre sissler,

deputy director of the center for comprehensive your opinion and international studies at the higher school of economics in multiple, mitre is good to see you again. thank you very much for your time. my pleasure. great to see to now i'm sure all like most of us um you found the exchange in the oval office for the draw dropping. what are the main takeaways for you from uh from thats pat. oh, my main think it weighs that the trump administration is really committed to ending the war as quickly as possible. they perceive the ukraine more as a winnable and as a distraction which prevents the united states from focusing on really important and strategic issues. and the 2nd take away is that from doesn't consider ukraine as a counterpart and as a decision maker, and as an actor you gray, ukrainian life support the bands, 100 percent of on the west. i and,

or even despite this life support to you, great. and it gives me using the war. this is why it's going to trump. ukraine can log, cabin its own opinion. ukraine can both have any objections to what the united states propose is. the job of ukraine is too great full and accept anything which is offered by the united states and best speed. it'd be great and to reach out to best offer. well, them that i'm here. we know from numerous american officials saying it bible lead that the american side went out of its way to accommodate the ukrainians. and i've heard the number of officials say that the ukrainian side was pretty demanding. in organizing this meeting, they insisted on trump meetings and landscape the more kids on the meeting taking place in the oval office. and the white house applies to all of that until it went to how fire. what do you think the cranium objective was for coming into the white house and you know, having the kind of meeting that they have?

well, i think the major you creating the objective was to convince donald trump to become jo by them basically. and to return to the pool. is that something previous administration support over your brain writing blank checks, you know, and basically promote ukrainian multi one ukrainian lamps. these object, of course, i mean i'm the i, i don't think that they fully point site drives to convince the trump administration to promote the landscapes, objectives, lots of the objectives of the united states. and they say, now the landscape put a lot of emphasis on the quote unquote security guarantees. and this is where trump was this the most. what do you think the ukrainians were trying to get under the somewhat obscure and formal term? well, 1st continuation of new a 3 days without any preconditions in depth and at the continuation of the military aid ideally expand some of the new local aid and commitment of the front,

but ministration to write new blank checks off to the biden's a bunch of expires, secondly, commitment of the united states to go into war direct war again, strasser starting sort of old war. uh, you know, you uh, the peace agreement somehow. uh, you know, it is not, uh, kept the by and by the, by all the sites. and of course, this was the complete plan, acceptable for the trump white house. now do you own me a time or one of the most prominent american fullest as scholars whom you know, very well suggested in one of his recent interviews that the ukrainians were essentially trying to buy the us as military commitment and presence in the ukraine with i have 500000000000 horse of rare earth minerals. and he said that the article for all of that mineral deal provided for quote,

common protection of critical resources. as an indirect way of tying the americans to your plan. and trump didn't want to be entangled in such a way. what's your take on that? do you find a plausible? well, i think that the trump administration made it very clear that they want money from ukraine. they, once this is hypothetical, $500000000000.00 for the mula 3 days, we can billable already provided, not fully viewed formula $38.00. the part is not for any sorts of commitments that ukrainians, one for all the united states. you know, the trumpet, ministration wants to avoid commitments in terms of military support of ukraine in terms of security. get this to the future. i think trump is very clear that this is the job for the european some how to handle it. she doesn't want to die either united states to ukraine in the military sense. and she doesn't wants to be both locations. we've with a decent off the beast suite strong ones and the a, a. m p,

the risk of direct camille, the clash between the united states and russia, we stronghold bessler wants to avoid a popular take here in russia. is that it was the sort of neo colonial deal designed by the americans to extract ukraine's mino resources. but if professor mir timer is right on the view, the landscape was essentially trying to coax trump into committing to defending ukraine. one that'd be great to embrace and i mean, what does that mean that zelinski is trying to beat chunk of his own game? absolutely, you know, uh, is it ask you wanted to be more prompted than prompts himself. you know, uh 1st before i actually there was thrown dogs that zalinski has those, uh, mineral resources. you know, uh most likely is the last you wanted to trade in uh to the trump with ministration . nothing in exchange for police commitment,

the united states and terms of defending your fame and in terms of providing i can definitely meet with any assistance you have. of course he failed you in doing that because from a main it's very clear that these money is necessary for the meal. a great aid, which has been the already provided by them by the ministry. but uh if i uh, take this uh, 2nd part of the deal, the ukrainians trying to get the americans in under false pretenses. i mean, i don't understand what the landscape was counting on because the main problem is for this conflict and brush i'm headed very clear is to prevent the american presence in ukraine. that was the reason why the crumbling launch this operation. what do you think the calculation was that the kremlin would say, okay, just because it's donald trump, we're going to roll out the red carpet for the american troops. i mean of what was he counting on? well, i things and ask you was counting on continuation of the war. you know, of course,

it is absolutely clear that for us, right? any military price on a new west, the military presence in ukraine is unacceptable. be american or european. but precisely for this reason, as any ask you want to the commitment of american troops and now she wants the commitment the pin troops before it is it ask you as understand the state empower is depending on the continuation of the war. as soon as the war ends, the ask, you will be out your walls to avoid that. despite the fact that investment is contamination of the war and with the bloom resolved into the ultimate destruction and defeat of ukraine for the near the. in the meantime, sentinel a, some of the war is the news for his own personal, political and physical survival. and he wants to prolong it as long as possible. now much has been already said about the ukrainian leadership ability to assess the

basic reality on its own relative place. and if do you think these very public spot in the all of the office is likely to sober uh, is it does advance gives emissions a bit, or is it even possible at this point of time? well, it's hard to answer this question because an ascii is most sober, right? as we all know that he is the product user right, then this distorts mind and psychology it, however, of the episode and the white color is the most real. a very striking in terms of colorado that has changed because they ask you was used to be handled like the new torture, you know, like dad and the games bully. all right. they the represented, the full, the front of the line, country of the free world, fighting against the global ego. and he was, he was present and like that for me uh for 3 years by the, by the west. and now instead that she is 3 bit like him, usually ship them up, adventures leader of the month, something with all strained cars,

insist kansas bump powder, risking that united states into the world war 3. right. and so he was folded into the, into the reality. of course, the shopping use for is it asking, i keep trying to pump and say that by the europeans. and psychologically, i think you're being killed in a beat, but most profoundly before is that you're a piece. jim mazda ford also decided fully with video ski against the united states . so they also convinced him, you know, to, to show some flexibility because i really like, oh, you mentioned psychology and i think your crane is a very vivid example of a nation living in the make believe world or me to put a differently, a nation having a collective psychotic outbreak. i mean, you can see that not only in the borders should behavior of leadership, but also in how it's intelligence services or military services uh,

operating in the hype. uh that is to maintain, in the, in the media. do you see the landscape as the crux of the problem here, or is he just the tip of the asbury again, if he alters his poster or if, even if he leaves office, do you think it's likely to change the way you create and projects itself as a nation and he's in the restaurant or it's other partners in the europe, in america and around the world. oh, you are so good, right. if your brain lives in the bubble, monthly landscape is a very, a symbolic representative will visible. you know, the video collapses personally, then it will be the beginning of the, the collapse of the bubble in general. yes, of course i, you know, i see is the people the iceberg. and the society in which leaves other strong propaganda under no freedom of speech. you know, in condition terms of a sense of sip and persecution of political arrivals and so on and so forth.

control of bill, it's a, it's all the aspects of political life, no elections, and so on and so forth. of course, the business is going to be congress, a box of the collapse of the symbol of this sort of the country, namely president or, you know, they ask, will be the beginning ball, but raise your trust formation, which will be fucking for the ukranian society. you know, as was 1945 smoking point, you on hold for the german nation. right. and they were also, i mean they were leaving on the scene to what conditions up until may 1945 be leaving into the ultimate victory or fluid or you know, up until the very end. but then eventually it won't collapse so well, uh, i think that the ukrainian so the brain i'm, a society is heading toward so similar the future. but me, true,

this is on the country as you put it is right on our border. and many of us do have relatives to the end of the country. i mean, you cannot cause the personal ties completely. and that's a pretty serious question for russia. how it should. 5 not necessarily even bill, it's relationship with ukraine, but deal with ukraine in the state that it is right now, regardless of whether there is any peace deal you know, produced by donald trump or not what's, what's your answer to that? well, i think this is precisely why the russian, that awesome government is so much talking about the right. so the rice, i'm speaking the rights of the russian language and frustration of normal conditions in the upgrade. you know, rush raise concerns, not just about the meal of the aspects of security and not just about neutral status of you green mold just about the militarization and the limits on the cranium to relations with the western congress. not just mon deployment,

those troops, but also certain normalization of domestic life in the ukraine because in the ukrainians to remain our brother country, our brother nation with innumerable number of enter society, the links right where a relative for links to absolutely right. we are not indifferent towards these people. right? then we want them to return to normalcy. mm hm. okay. well, uh, mr. we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few minutes states you and the

there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case of the madness of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also absurd. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing press for so the funder line likes to say we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals to living on mac. we have very close propaganda. you know, a price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask a better. the answer is will be the welcome back to will the parts with me crystal of deputy director of the center for comprehensive european and international studies at the higher school of economics in moscow, mitre, i don't know if you would agree with me, but i think one of the most refreshing and perhaps even promising change is coming

out of washington is the current leadership approach to diplomacy, both secretary of state, rubio advice, president vance, keep referencing diplomacy. one a one. this is a freshman course that is taught at american universities and where students are told that in order to engage in any interest a dialogue, one needs to approach the other side with the facility and respect. and the, you know, try to understand what the position of the other side. and i think also in his deal in his book rather the art of the deal. donald trump wrote extensively about investing in a relationship in the business relationship and also cultivating and basing your reputation on the power on the solidity of your owns worth. and i wonder if this change is just the rhetorical and or do you think it may be for real. that diplomacy, once again, is given, you know, their respective, deserves as a profession,

as this message through which the nations communicate and engage with one another deluxe on. i think that the united states is compelled to return to diplomacy in the real sense of diploma. say as an instrument of communication, most some kind of reward or ex wizards element overlay, something along like minded congress, as well as the case for the uh, for the previous administration. and the reason is, the reason behind that is that the united states fails. it fails to defeat process to inflict strategic defeat on russia. the united states fails in simultaneous conflict, confrontation against a several great powers altogether prostrate china, iran, north korea altogether. by end of the human border to get out of that situation which the united states moses, they needs to return to normal to normal diploma. se as an instrument of

communication, not just among friends and like minded congress, but also among at 1st service. among other great powers, now i'm moving, of course while recognizing the existence of the interests of the other side. right . and this is one of the trump administration is doing. but again, let me say this is not to be for as they see live on the list, they come out to do this because of the failure, a complete failure of their previous folder. so now your role recently that while this change of tone in bilateral exchange has been most kind of washington is welcome, it should not serve as a reason for your, for you, because russian, the united states still remain competitors. and i heard a number of your colleagues saying that she definitely for the that's still the case. so we're still competing in many areas. but we also leaving

a very per adults to full time when the interest national interest of russian, the united states happened to be aligned, they are not shared, that not overlapping, but they just happen to be aligned. do you agree with that? absolutely. you know, while remaining strategic competitors, we are both. we both benefit from the assumption of corporation from selective corporation from ending the call, either to more uh, which existed between russian and united states for more than uh for more than 3 years and for ending to confront data. right, uh, the united states is interested in ending confront based on with the restaurant, because they have other priorities because they fail uh to defeat process. and now they wants to normalize relations with russia in order to escape the war, which they can both whim and focus their channel. they are probably your, those on more strategically important things, such as competition against,

against china. ross is also interested in the damn things and come from based on with the united states for a bulk of reasons, rights to finish the inquiry in war on our terms uh to for, to, to, to establish new news of the game in the european secured at the base that was limits fully geopolitical expansion of the west to reduce sanctions, right? if we come to the question of reduction of sanctions, and there are several concrete topics in the world, b, the bottom is a b, b iranian nuclear program or strategic stability where we both benefit from work right now. uh, both puts in and trump like to put emphasis on common sense in neuroscience. common sense is a very interesting phenomenon. first of all, it's notably missing and people with a certain skips a frantic and autistic tendencies and also in many ways in san marcos. cognitive

house and a balanced, embodied live, and i think we've all been missing that in international politics. i'm skeptical of even asking this question, but do you think common sense, janney and commonsense could be brought back into global affairs? well i, i hope so. you know, the arrival of the trump administration, which does smoke have idea a lot. you go there is 3 a day, a logical limitations. create recommendations for common sense. also common sense usually re emerges when you move and say, right, uh, again, uh, the united states was bait. are they the, the us previous bullets. it was based on the move from the bank of the paper off, instead of a maintaining normal relations with ross. now there are no longer a carrying this illusion because you know, they fails to defeat ross and he looked at only have they fail process of defeat

process the defeat ross economically and they fails to isolating process in the, in the world. they understand a short inches and limitations of american results is and kept capability. is they understand that they need to re focus them and channel them. and then one narrow sense, while 2nd advising to something unnecessary so to be really created for the conditions for the revival of common sense. now, while the americans have seem to come to terms with that limitations, the european partners seem to be holding an, a competition for the most belligerent on, asked is that with either about why them important and rational or about donor trump in the united states and where do you think uh, all of this leaves our european neighbors? well, uh, the fortune of land. uh, you know, utilizing a very difficult situation and we are doing the full continuation of some based on

the way of europe in the union and, and collect cuz he would have, i would say that's lunch for 2 reasons. first, but also for the, i'm kind of the confrontation of the game structure case to really become a pillar of european integration. this is something that brings them together. there's, there's a, they need to come from, think something in order to keep the european union together to spring from an integration for them to keep the integration in order to confront prostate, you know, they use this come from based on, with russia as a justification for uh, you know, increase of defense spending, deepening the, uh, security integration, defense integration, and so on and so forth. the 2nd for a 2nd, the reason you know, new the united states uh, the administration changed. and donald trump explicitly claims the depaula so, so the bite and administration board mistake, the grains that the beginning will have green warranties, buying those full m,

as in the ascii school, but mainland, buying those for. so the chain shall be administration, create the corporate community for the united states to start the different balls and the hold up, nothing changed. you know, we, we see the same people with the same lease. and of course, they can not afford to recognize the bankruptcy of their previous boss. i, because they wouldn't be, you know, a job that's uh, you know, they will disappear. they, they, they, they, they wouldn't be what's the weight. so they, uh they, they, they, they, uh, they are compelled to continue the same problem. i sent you one and a bullet, a human, although it is, don't forget to print the mitre. it's one thing to call a lot in there, puts an old way in heck it to if a name uh in the book. but it's another thing to do the same thing to donald trump, and we see from, from the reaction to the allowance to post here, and that he didn't waived long to pull the carpet of military support from under

the ukrainians. um, do you think he may do something of the kind to the europeans? uh, is there actually a cost too old if you are a problem grandstanding it possible cost basis? precisely why i said that you represent a very difficult situation because on the one hand, of course they tried to consolidate against donald trump. right. and many of them to uh, explicitly describe donald trump as they're adverse, sorry. but on the audit can, they cannot afford. uh, a believe against the united states, because despite all the redirect, europe is not them independent. geopolitical play, europe is not a significant. mueller, for player the is the them, the, on the united states, militarily, politically and economically utilized does not wants to accelerate the 3 more against the united states. the you're is extremely afraid of the us pull out uh

from, from europe and undermining the natal article, 5 commitments. so they not dependent on the united states. and they want to support some of the reconciliation with the trump administration and look at the materials and star motors business uh, to uh, to washing done by the same time. of course they try to use donald trump also as the significant other you know, together with raso which uh, consolidates the european union. let me try to mention that here. things are not independent players and truest. trained that point, i want to bring up some of the data on the structure of the trans atlantic relation to this point of time. the united states provides roughly 70 percent of native financial budgeting around 80 percent of its weaponry. more than 80 percent of its intelligence and reconnaissance capacity about 70 percent of its ear and a bmw defense is on the list goes on. i mean, this is

a highly skewed and very dependent relationship with the europeans. what i don't understand is why they think it's a good idea to try to solve it. by writing dismissive posts about donald trump is a absolutely dependent on the united states. and of course, of the term of the united states towards the pacific. you know, the conflict, they secured through the complex idea, a logical decoupling between the united states and europe and undermining of the atlantic community. he's exist asshole threat to the current to the economy. you repeat the alerts but and so this is why they try to somehow remedy this situation by similar pania slate down by problem. pretty great. increase of the defense spending of the integration of the european union by the same time, combining it with, you know, maintaining both corporation with united states in

a corporate, at the way through pieces, through trying to you know, engage from the thoughts of the us. what are some, uh, negotiations by bringing some good ideas and then he said this 3 year waiting at the start from multi spot, this props and then the continuation of, of the war i and so on and so forth. ultimately, the principal wants to all, to leave grow. you know, they understand that uh, this is the last presidential term on the top administration. they understand that next year they will be mid term elections in the us congress. and quite likely, a trump will become more street in his behavior. democrats establish control over one of the good chambers of the congress. so they want to, uh, wait for a kind of this uh, full 4 full full for this situation. well, i'm not sure that is

a successful strategies here, but i guess we will see you in the next couple of months, which has been great pleasure talking to thank you very much for your time. thank you. my pleasure, and thank you for watching hope this here again on walter part. the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the

take a fresh look around is life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures, design to simplify will confuse really once a better wills and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground?

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