it is dad's from doesn't consider ukraine as a counterpart and as a decision maker, and as an actor, you gray, ukrainian life support the pounds, 100 percent of on the west. i and uh, even despite this live support, do you agree? and that is the only thing the war. this is why it's going to trump. ukraine can log cabin its own opinion. ukraine can both have any objections to what the united states proposes. the job of ukraine is to great full and accept anything which is offered by the united states. and that's it. you've great and reach out to best offer. well, them that i'm here. we know from numerous american officials saying it bible believe that the american side went out of its way to accommodate the ukrainians. and i've heard the number of officials say that the ukraine inside was pretty demanding. in organizing this meeting, they insisted on top meetings and landscape,

the more kids on the meetings taking place in the oval office and the white house applies to all of that until it went to your how fire. what do you think the cranium objective was for coming into the white house and you know, having the kind of meeting that they have? well, i think the major you, great, and the objective was to convince donald trump to become jo by them. basically to return to the pool as of the previous administration, support of your brain writing blank checks, you know, and basically promote ukrainian, multi one ukrainian st lamps these object. of course, i mean i'm the, i, i don't think that they fully point the site drives to convince the trump administration to promote zelinski is the objectives, not the objectives of the united states. and they say now is allows to put a lot of emphasis on the quote unquote security guarantees. and this is where trump was this the most. what do you think that you could names were trying to get under

the somewhat obscure and formal term? the 1st uh, continuation of view of 3 days without any preconditions in depth and that the continuation of the military aid ideally next time some of the new local aid and commitment of the front, but ministration to write new blank checks off to the biden's a bunch of expires. secondly, commitment of the united states to go into war, direct war against process, starting sort of old war. uh, you know, the, uh, the lease agreement. somehow. uh, you know, it is not, uh, kept buying by a, by all the sites. and of course, this was the complete land acceptable for the trump white house. now do you own me a time or one of the most prominent american, fullest ice callers whom, you know, very well suggested in one of his recent interviews that the ukrainians were essentially trying to buy the us as military commitment and presence in the ukraine

with i have 500000000000 of worth of rare earth minerals. and he said that the article for all that the mineral deal provided for quote, common protection of critical resources. as an indirect way of tying the americans to your plan. and trump didn't want to be entangled in such a way. what's your take on that? do you find a plausible? well, i think that the trump administration made it very clear that they want money from ukraine. they, once this is hypothetical, $500000000000.00 for the military aid which have been the bill of lading for quite a bit. not fully future meal, a 38. the port is not for any sorts of commitments that ukrainian one from the united states. you know, the trampling ministration wants to avoid commitments in terms of military support of ukraine in terms of security. get this to the future. i think off is very clear

that this is the job for the repeal some how to handle it. she doesn't want to die either united states to ukraine in the military sense, and he doesn't wants to date ab both locations. we sort of a, they start off the beast, which trump once a bit, a, a, be the risk direct camila. the clash between the united states and brussel we stronghold bessler wants to avoid a popular take here in russia is that it was a sort of neo colonial deal designed by the americans to extract ukraine's mino resources. but if professor mir timer is right and the abuse, savanski was essentially trying to coax trump into committing to defending ukraine, wouldn't. that'd be great to embrace. and i mean, what does that mean that zelinski is trying to beat chunk of his own game? absolutely, you know, uh, is it ask you wanted to be more prompt than prompt himself. you know, uh, 1st big floors. uh, actually there was thrown dogs that zalinski has those, uh,

mineral resources. you know, uh most likely the last you wanted to trade in or uh, to the trump administration. nothing in exchange for clear commitment, the united states and terms of defending your group name and in terms of providing i can definitely look at the assistance you have. of course he failed you in doing that because the drum uh, made it very clear that these money is necessary for the meal. a great aid, which has to be in the already provided by the, by the administrator. but uh if i uh, take this uh, 2nd part of the deal, the ukrainians trying to get the americans in under false pretences. um, i mean, i don't understand what is it lensky was counting on because the main problem is for this conflict and brush made it very clear is to prevent the american presence in ukraine. that was the reason why the kremlin lodge this operation. what do you

think the calculation was that the kremlin would say, okay, just because it's donald trump, we are going to roll out the red carpet for the american troops. i mean, what was he counting on? well, i think it was counting on continuation of the war. you know, of course, it is absolutely clear that for us, right. any military price on a new west, the military presence in ukraine is unacceptable. be american or european. but precisely for basic reason, as any ask you want as the commitment of american troops and now she wants the commitment the pin troops before the video scares, understand the state empower, is depending on the continuation of the war. as soon as the war ends, the ask you will be out your wants to avoid that, despite the fact that indefinite contamination of the war and the day with the bloom resolved into the ultimate destruction and defeat of ukraine. forbes enhanced the in the meantime, attempting to raise some of the war these the news for his own personal,

political and physical survival. and she wants to prolong it as long as possible. now much has been already said about the ukrainian leadership ability to assess the basic reality on its own relative place. and if you think it'd be a very public spot and the all of the office is likely to sober uh, is it does advance gives emissions a bit, or is it even possible at this point of time? well, it's hard to answer this question because an ascii is most sober, right? as we all know that he is a drug user, right? them they distort mind and psychology it, however, of the episode them to white calls most really very striking in terms of colorado that has changed because they asked, he was used to be handled like the new torture, you know, like daddy and against a bully. all right, they the represented the full, the front of the line country of the free world, sliding against the global civil. and he was,

he was present and likes that form for 3 years by the, by the west. and now instead that she is 3 bit like him, usually cheetham of adventurous leader, who, the month, something with all strong cards in kids, kansas bump up with it, risking their nighted states into the world. well, 3, right? and so he was pulled into the, into the reality of course, the shopping use for is it asking, i keep trying to compensate that by the europeans. and psychologically, i think you're being scale can beat, but most profoundly because the other piece cannot afford also decided fully with video ski against the united states. so they also convinced him, you know, to, to, sol southwick's, to be with it because, i mean, i know you mentioned psychology and i seen ukraine is a very vivid example of a nation living in the make believe world or me to put a differently

a nation having a collective psychotic outbreak, i mean, you can see that not only in the borders should behavior of leadership, but also in how it's intelligence services or military services are operating in the hype. uh, that is still maintained in the, in the media. do you see the landscape as the crux of the problem here, or is he just the tip of the asbury again, if he alters his poster or if even if he leaves office, do you think it's likely to change the way you creating projects itself as a nation, and he's a russia or if other partners in the europe, in america and around the world. oh, you are so good, right? if your brain lives in the bubble mugs, an ascii is a very, a symbolic representative of this bubble. you know, deep zalinski collapse as personally then it will be the beginning of the collapse of the bubble in general. yes, of course i, you know,

i see is the peak of the iceberg. i am the, the society of which leaves other strong propaganda under no freedom of speech. you know, i can come to terms of a sense of shape and persecution, of political arrivals and so on and so forth. control ability of all the aspects of political life know electrons and so on and so forth. of course uh, this is a phone because um uh, box uh the uh, collapse of the symbol of this sort of the country, namely president or, you know, is it asking uh will be the beginning volvic raise your trust formation, which will be fucking for the ukranian society, you know, as well as 1945. so looking for you on uh for, for the gentleman nation. right. and they were also, i mean they were leaving on the see know what conditions up until may 1945 uh be

leaving in to the ultimate to be 3. 03 or you know up until the very end. but then eventually it will collapse so well uh, i think that the ukrainian so the premiums and the society is heading towards the same of the future. but uh, make sure this is on the country as you put it is right on our water. and many of us do have relatives to the end of the country. i mean, you cannot cod the personal ties completely. and that's a pretty serious question for russia. how it should. 5 not necessarily even bill, it's relationship with ukraine, but deal with ukraine in the state that it is right now, regardless of whether there is any peace deal you know, produced by donald trump or not what's, what's your answer to that? well, i think this is precisely why russia and there are some government is so much talking about the right. so there are some speaking the rights of the russian language and restoration of normal condition just in the ukraine. you know, ross has concerns,

not just about the meal of the aspects of security and not just about neutral status. so few green mold just about the militarization and the limits on the cranium. mueller relations with the western conference, and we'll just move the appointment. both groups but also certain normalization of domestic life in ukraine because indeed ukrainians to remain our brother country, our brother nation with innumerable number of enter society, the links right where a relative for links to absolutely right. we are not indifferent towards these people. right, then we want them to return to normalcy. okay, well, uh, mr. we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few minutes. stay tuned. the,

[000:00:00;00] the despite everything re breeze go to the front lines with that eagerly awaited they pray in the trenches and bunkers and hospitals didn't destroy churches. they price

a piece. so i think, you know, most do nascar almost a sort of store what kind of stuff. but so the last so used to will use so mutual. so can i even though a simple sleeping a mess? i bet you from watch a discharge or just try to bristol shape or gotcha. so the way i've been here, it's called the best interest of this as far as i finished up as a hold on all the sharon fish. just plug this to nasa and join the

welcome back to worlds of parts with mixers. so some of deputy director of the center for comprehensive european and international studies at the higher school of economics in moscow, mitre, i don't know if you would agree with me, but i think one of the most refreshing and perhaps of in promising change is coming out of washington is the current leadership approach to diplomacy, both secretary of state through bureau, otherwise present bands keep referencing diplomacy. one a one. this is a freshman course that is taught at american universities and where students are told that in order to engage in any interest a dialogue, one needs to approach the other side is the facility and respect. and the, you know, try to understand what the position of the other side. and i think also in his deal in his book rather the hours of the deal. donald trump wrote extensively about investing in a relationship and

a business relationship and also called debating and basing your reputation ation on the power on the solidity of your owns wore it. and i wonder if this change is just rhetorical and or do you think it may be for real? that diplomacy, once again, is given, you know, their respective deserves as a profession, as a message through which the nations communicate and engage with one another. so exxon, i think that the united states is compelled to return to diplomacy in a real sense, a diploma say as an instrument of communication mode, some kind of reward or ex wizards element, overlay, something along like minded congress, as well as the case for the uh for the previous administration, and the reason is, uh, the reason behind that is that the united states fails. it fails to do the process to inflict strategic defeat on russia. united states fails in simultaneous

companies confrontation against a several great powers altogether garage, which i cannot get on north korea altogether by the end of the human border to get out of that situation which the united states moses, they needs to return to normal to normal diplomacy as an instrument of communication mode, just among friends and like minded congress, but also among at 1st service among other great powers. now i'm moving, of course, while recognizing the existence of the interests of the other side. right. and this is one of the trumpet. ministration is doing, but again let me say this is multi before is they sincerely wanted to do this. they are come pallet to do this because of the failure, a complete failure of their previous folder. so now your role recently that while this change of tone in bilateral exchange has been,

was going to washington is welcome. it should not serve as reasons for your for you, and because russian, the united states still remain competitors and are heard a number of your colleagues saying that she definitely, that's still the case. so we're still competing in many areas, but we also leave in the very uh for adults, that goal time when the interest national interest of russian, the united states happened to be aligned, they are not shared. that not overlapping, but they just happen to be aligned. do you agree with that? absolutely. you know, while remaining strategic competitors, we are both. we both benefit from the assumption of corporation from selective corporation from ending the call, either more uh, which existed in russian united states for more than uh for more than 3 years. and for ending the confrontation right? uh, the united states is interested in ending confrontation with ross right before they

have all the priority just because they fail uh to defeat the washer. and now they wants to normalize relations with russia in order to escape the war, which they can both whim and focus their channel. they are probably your, it is on more strategically important things, such as competition against, against china. ross is also interested in the standings and confrontation with the united states for a bulk of reasons, rights to finish you, graham war on our terms of 24 to to, to establish new rules of the game in the european securities this, that was limits while the geopolitical expands some of the west to reduce sanctions, right? if we come to the question of reduction of sanctions and there are several concrete topics in the world be the bottom. they could be the uranium nuclear program or

strategic stability where we both benefit from corporate snell. uh, both uh, puts in an trunk a like to put emphasis on commonsense um in your science uh, commonsense is a very interesting phenomenon. first of all, its notably missing and people with the citizens gets a frantic and i'll just stick tendencies. and also in many ways, since a mark of cognitive health and a balanced embodied live. and i think we've all been missing dot and international politics. i'm skeptical of even asking this question, but do you think common sense jenny and common sense could be brought back into global affairs? well i, i hope so. you know, the arrival of the trump administration, which does smoke have idea a lot. you go, there is 3, they, they are logical limitations, creates for conditions, football, common sense. also common sense usually emerges. when you say, right, uh, again, uh, the united states was big. are they the,

the us previous fullest and was based on the move them. but they kept the brush instead of both maintaining normal relations with brush. now there are no longer a carrying this illusion because you know, they fails to the feet wash and we looked at earlier, they failed process and the, the pressure, the to defeat ross. economically, they fails to isolating process uh, in the, in the world. they understand the short inches and limitations of american. the result is and kept capability. is they understand that they need to re focus them and channel them in a more natural sense while sacrificing to something a nexus of you. so these 3 really creates, but it can do some sort of data revival of the common sense. now, while the americans have uh, seem to come to terms with that limitations, the european partners uh seems to be holding

a competition for the most belligerent on asked is that with either about demand, put an end rational or about donor trump in the united states. so what do you think all of these leaves are in europe and neighbors? well, unfortunately, the plan uh, you know, utilizing the very difficult situation and we are doing the full continuation of confrontation with your team union and, and collect if you would up i would say that's lunch for 2 reasons. first, but also for the i'm kind of gone from based on the gains process for kids to really become a pillar of european integration. this is something that brings them together. this is of a need to confront the dates from in order to keep the european union together to spring from i, integration to the integration important to confront process. so you know, they use this confront based on with the roster as a justification for uh, you know, increase on defense spending, deepening the, uh, security integration, defense integration and so on and so forth. the 2nd for a 2nd reason, you know,

due the united states uh, the administration changed. and donald trump, exclusively claims the depaula so, so the bite and administrators on the board mistake. the claims that the beginning will be green. warranty is buying those full m as in the ascii school, but mainland, buying those for. so the chain shall be administration. create that over to you. another for the united states to start from different pools in europe. nothing changed. you know, the way we see the same people with the same lease and of course they can not afford to recognize the bankruptcy on the previous boss. i, because they wouldn't be, you know, a job that's uh, you know, they would disappear. they, they, they, they, they would be what the weight. so they, uh they, they, they, they, uh, they are compelled to continue the same form. i sent you, but i'm unable a human, although it is,

don't forget to print the truth. one thing to call one demand for an old man, how good to us the name uh in the book. but it's another thing to do the same thing to donald trump and we see from, from the reaction to zillow. it's to the poster that he didn't wait long to pull the carpet of military support from under the ukrainians. um, do you think he may do something of the kinds of the europeans? uh, is there actually a cost too old if you were a team grandstanding it possible cost basis? precisely why i said that you represent a very difficult situation because on the one hand of pores they tried to consolidate the gains. donald trump, right. many of them to uh, exclusively describe donald trump as their adversity by the can. they can motive for, it's uh, a believe against the united states. because despite of all the rhetoric, europe is not them independent. geo political play. europe is not

a significant. mueller, for a player, the is the them, the, all the united states, militarily and politically and economically, european does not wants to accelerate the 3 more against the united states. the world is extremely afraid of the us pullout, uh from uh, from europe and undermining the need to audit, go 5 commitments. so they not dependent on the united states. and they want to, of course, some reconciliation with the trump administration and look at the materials and star motors visits to the washing done by the same time. of course they try to use donald trump also as the significant other, you know, together with russia which uh, consolidates the european union. let me try to mention that to your opinions and not independent players. and to illustrate that point, i want to bring up some of the data on the structure of the trans atlantic relation

to this point of time. the united states provides roughly 70 percent alternators financial budgeting around 80 percent of its weaponry. more than 80 percent of its intelligence and recognizance capacity is about 70 percent of its ear and a bmw desantis and the list goes on. i mean, this is a highly skewed and very dependent relationship with the europeans. what i don't understand is why they think it's a good idea to try to solve it. by writing dismissive posts about donald trump, they not absolutely dependent on the united states. so in the course of the term of the united states towards the pacific, you know, the conflict, the security, the coupling idea of logical decoupling between the united states and europe and undermining of the atlantic community. he's existential threat to the current to the economy. you repeat the elements,

but and so this is why they try to somehow remedy this situation by similar pania slate down side problem. pretty great. increase of the defense spending and the integration of, of, of the europe in the union by the same time, combining it with, you know, maintaining both corporation when do 9 and stage in the corporate of the way through this through trying to, you know, engaged from disrupt, the us there are some, uh, negotiations by bringing some good ideas and then he said this re your weight gain of destruct from multi spot this props and then contamination of, of the war i and so on and so forth. ultimately, the principal wants to all to leave throw, you know, they understand that uh, this is the last presidential term of the top administration. they understand that next year they will be need term elections in the us congress. and quite likely,

a trump will become more as 3 to hi against his behavior. if democrats establish control over one of the good chambers of the congress. so they want to, uh, wait for kind of this uh, full 4 full full full the situation. well, um no, sir, that is successful started here, but i guess we will see in the next couple of months, which has been great pleasure talking to thank you very much for your time. thank you. my pleasure and thank you for watching hope is here again on walter part. the,

[000:00:00;00] the the if you think about russia, what does your mind picture the landscapes open up before your lines? the last one does, can you imagine the,

the discounts dodge the journey? the, are you ready to come to the studio today? that is, is it a site that is, is the most sides on uh, an issue spaces, hundreds are reported killed in syria, of the nation. becoming aside from the max execution to the hands of the new governmental authorities now to the 3rd day in a row of a situation deteriorating in syria levels of the leading to the level and then an attempt to save their lives. some of the ongoing context connecting the interview we left in, cross the river in order to survive and provide for our children that we left and came here. they are killing christians and l. whites based on their identity. if i