over and over again. what does this leave the 2 presidents and their respective countries? like to discuss that i'm now joined by the mitre sissler, deputy director of the center for comprehensive your opinion and international studies at the higher school of economics in moscow. mitre is good to see you again . thank you very much for your time. my pleasure, gracious you too. now i'm sure like most of us and you found the exchange in the oval office. we did drop dropping. what are the main takeaways for you from from that's path? oh, my main think of ways that the trump administration is really committed to ending the war as quickly as possible. they perceive very ukraine more as a winnable and as a distraction which prevents the united states from focusing on really important and strategic issues. and the 2nd take away is that from doesn't come see the ukraine as a counterpart and as a decision maker, and as an after ukraine,

ukrainian life support the pounds, 100 percent of on the west. i and uh, even despite this live support to you, great. and it is me using the war. this is why it's going to trump. ukraine can log cavities, old opinion. ukraine can both have any objections to what the united states propose is. the job of ukraine is to great, fully accept anything which is offered by the united states, and that's great and rejects this offer. well, them that i'm here. we know from numerous american officials saying it bible lead that the american side went out of its way to accommodate the ukrainians. and i've heard the number of officials say that the ukraine inside was pretty demanding. in organizing this meeting, they insisted on trunk meetings, alaska, the more kids on the meetings taking place and they will, val, office on the white house applies to all of that's until it went to your how fire.

what do you think the cranium objective was for coming into the white house and you know, having the kind of meeting that they have? well, i think the major you, great, and the objective was to convince donald trump to become jo by them. basically to return to the pool as, as of the previous administration, support of your brain writing blank checks, you know, and basically promote ukrainian, multi one ukrainian st lamps these object. of course, i mean i'm the, i, i don't think that they fully point site drives to convince the trump administration to promote the landscape objectives, not the objectives of the united states. and they say now is it allows you put a lot of emphasis on the quote unquote security guarantees. and this is where trump was this the most. what do you think the ukrainians were trying to get under the somewhat obscure and formal term? so 1st continuation of mueller 3 days without any preconditions in depth,

and that the continuation of the military aid ideally next time some of the me looking to aide and come meet them at the front, but ministration to write new blank checks up to the vitamins a bunch of expires. secondly, commitment of the united states to go into more direct war. again, strasser starting sort of old war. uh, you know, the, uh, the lease agreement somehow. uh, you know, it is not uh, kept buying by the, by all the sites and of course, this was the complete plan, acceptable for the trump white house. now do you want to meet or time, or one of the most prominent american policies, scholars whom, you know, very well suggested in one of his recent interviews that the ukrainians were essentially trying to buy the us as military commitment and presence in the ukraine with i have 500000000000 of worth of rare earth arrows. and he said that uh,

articles for all that uh, mineral deal provided for quote, common protection of critical resources. as an indirect way of tying the americans to your plan. and trump didn't want to be entangled in such a way. what's your take on that? do you find a plausible? well, i think that the trump administration made it very clear that they want money from ukraine. they wants this hypothetical $500000000000.00 for the mula 3 days, which can be the bill of lading pro. quite it. not for the future meal. a 38. the support is not for any sorts of commitments that you create. a new one for all the united states. you know that promptly ministration wants to avoid commitments in terms of military support of ukraine in terms of think you'd have to get this to the future. i think trump is very clear that this is the job for the repeating some how to handle it. she doesn't want to die either united states to ukraine in the

military sense. and she doesn't wants to take the publications. we sort of a, they start off the b switch drop once a day, a, a m b risk direct camila. the clash between the united states and brussel we stronghold bessler wants to avoid a popular take here in russia is that it was a sort of neo colonial deal designed by the americans to extract ukraine's mino resources. but if professor mir timer is right and the butte the landscape was essentially trying to coax trump into committing to defending ukraine. wouldn't. that'd be great to embrace. and i mean, what does that mean? does the landscapes trying to beat trump of his own game? absolutely, you know, uh is it ask you wanted to be more prompt them prompt himself. you know, uh, 1st big corps, uh, actually there was thrown dogs that zalinski has those, uh, mineral resources. you know, most like was the last you wanted to trade in uh to the trump administration.

nothing in exchange for police commitment of the united states in terms of defending your fame and in terms of providing, i can definitely look at the assistance you have. of course you failed him in doing that because from a main it's very clear that these money is necessary for the meal. a great aid which said being the already provided by the, by the administrator. but uh if i uh, take this uh, 2nd part of the deal, the ukrainians trying to get the americans in under false pretences. i mean, i don't understand what defines do was counting on because the main problem is for this conflict and brush i'm headed very clear is to prevent the american presence in ukraine. that was the reason why the crumbling launch this operation. what do you think the calculation was the. c the kremlin would say ok, just because it's donald trump, we are going to roll out the red carpet for the american troops. i mean of what was

he counting on? well, i things and ask you was counting on continuation of the war. you know, of course, it is absolutely clear that for us, right. any military price on a new west, the military presence in ukraine is unacceptable. be american or european. but precise little this reason, as any ask you, wanted the commitment of american troops. and now she wants the commitment the pin troops, the course is it ask you is understand the state empower, is depending on the continuation of the war. as soon as the war ends, the ask you will be out your wants to avoid that. despite the fact that the investment and confirmation of the war in the day with the balloon resolves into the ultimate destruction and defeat of ukraine. forbes, in, in the, in the meantime, attempting to a, some of the war is the news for his own personal, political and physical survival. and he wants to problem one good. as long as

possible. now much has been already sad about the ukrainian leaderships ability to assess the basic reality on its own relative place. and if do you think these very public spot in the all of the office is likely to sober uh, is it does advance gives emissions a bit, or is it even possible at this point of time? well, it's hard to answer this question because an ascii is most sober, right? as we all know, that he is a drug user, right. and this distorts mind and psychology it. however, of the episode and the white color is the most real, a very striking in terms of colorado that has changed because they ask you was used to be kind of like the new chart. so you know, like daddy and against a bully. all right. they, the representative for the front line country of the free world, fighting against the global ego. and she was, she was present it like that form for 3 years by the, by the west. and now instead that she is 3 bit like him,

nearly cheetham of adventurous leader who, the month something was all strong cards, insist kansas bump powder, risking their nighted states into the world war 3. right. and so he was supposed to get into the, into the reality of course, the shopping use for is it asking, i keep trying to compensate that by the europeans. and psychologically, i think you're being killed in a beat, but most profoundly because the other piece cannot afford also decided solely with zaleski against the united states. so they also convinced him, you know, to, to show some flexibility because, i mean, i know you mentioned psychology and i seen ukraine is a very vivid example of a nation living in the make believe world or me to put a differently, a nation having a collective psychotic outbreak time,

you can see that not only in the borders should behavior of leadership, but also in how it's intelligence services or military services are operating in the hype. uh, that is still maintained in the, in the media. do you see the landscape as the crux of the problem here, or is he just the tip of the iceberg? and if he alters his pulse chair, or if, even if he leaves office, do you think it's likely to change the way you create and projects itself? as a nation, it means that the russia or it's other partners in the europe, in america and around the world. oh, you are so good, right? if your brain lives in the bubble mugs the landscape is a very, a symbolic representative of this bubble. you know, deep zalinski collapse is personally then it will be the beginning of the collapse of the bubble in general. yes, of course i a, you know, a, he is the peak of the iceberg. i am the society in which leaves other strong

propaganda under no freedom of speech. you know, i can come to terms of a sense of shape and persecution, of political arrivals and so on and so forth. control ability of all the aspects of political life, no elections, and so on and so forth. of course, this is going to be concrete, um, uh, box of the collapse of the symbol of it's sort of the country, namely president or, you know, the ascii will be the beginning, volvic raise your trust formation, which will be fucking for the ukranian society. you know, as was 1945 smoking point, you on hold for the german nation. right. and they were also, i mean they were leaving on the scene to what conditions up until may 1945 be leaving in to the ultimate to be 3 or 3 or, you know, up until the very end. but then eventually it will collapse so well uh,

i think that's the ukrainian so the great him, the society is heading toward so similar the future. but make sure this is on the country as you put it is right on our border. and many of us do have relatives in the end of the country. i mean, you cannot cause the personal ties completely. and that's a pretty serious question for russia. how it should. 5 not necessarily even bill, it's relationship with ukraine, but deal with ukraine in the state that it is right now, regardless of whether there is any peace deal you know, produced by donald trump or not what's, what's your answer to that? well, i think this is precisely why the russian, the russian government is so much talking about the right. so the rice, i'm speaking the rights of the russian language and frustration of normal conditions in the upgrade. you know, rush raise concerns, not just about the meal of the aspects of security law, just about neutral status. so few green mold just about the militarization and the

limits on the cranium. we looked at all relations with the western conference and we'll just move the appointment both groups, but also certain normalization of domestic life in the ukraine because of the ukrainians to remain our brother country, our brother nation with innumerable number of in the society. the links, right, where a relative for links to absolutely right. we are not indifferent towards these people . right? then we want them to return to normalcy. okay, well, uh, mr. we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few minutes. stay tuned. the,

and there's no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth . is the case for the med, most of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also of soon. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washer. as for so the funder lion likes to say, we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals. living on that, we have a very good propaganda. you know, a price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask the better the answer is will be the

the welcome back to will the parts with me crystal of deputy director of the center for comprehensive european and international studies at the higher school of economics in moscow? mitre, i don't know if you would agree with me, but i think one of the most refreshing and perhaps even promising change is coming out of washington is the current leadership approach to diplomacy, both secretary of state through bureau, otherwise present bands keep referencing diplomacy. one, a one, this is a freshman course that is taught at american universities and where students are told that in order to engage in any interest a dialogue, one needs to throws the other sides with the civility and respect. um the

uh you know, try to understand what the position of the other side. and i think also in his deal in his book rather the are the video. donald trump wrote extensively about investing in a relationship in a business relationship and also called debating and basing your reputation on the power on the solidity of your owns worth. and i wonder if this change is just rhetorical and or do you think you've made before real. that diplomacy, once again, is given, you know, their respective, deserves as a profession, as a message through which the nations communicate and engage with one another deluxe on. i think that the united states is compelled to return to diplomacy in a real sense, a diploma say as an instrument of communication mode, some kind of reward or ex we've this element of relationships among like mine that contests as well as the case for the uh for the previous administration,

and the reason is, the reason behind that is that the united states fails. it fails to defeat process to inflict strategic defeat on russia. they're not, it states fails in simultaneous company confrontation against a several great powers altogether prostrate china here on north korea altogether. i. e. and the order to get out of that situation which the united states moses, they needs to return to normal to normal diplomacy. as an instrument of communication, not just among friends and like minded congress, but also among at 1st service among other great powers. now i'm moving, of course, while recognizing the existence of the interests of the other side. right, and this is one of the trump administration is doing what they yeah. let me say

this is not because they sincerely wanted to do this. they come out to do this because of the failure, a complete failure of their previous bullets. now your role recently that while this a change of tone in bilateral exchange has been most kind of washington is welcome . it should not serve as a reason for your, for you, because russian, the united states still remain competitors and are heard a number of your colleagues saying that she definitely play. that's still the case . so we're still competing in many areas, but we also leave in the very per adults, single time when the interest national interest of russian, the united states happened to be aligned, the not shared the not overlapping, but they just happened to be aligned. do you agree with that? absolutely. you know, while remaining strategic competitors, we are both. we both benefit from the assumption of corporation from selective

corporation from ending the call, either more uh, which existed in russian united states for more than uh for more than 3 years. and for ending to confirm dates. right? uh, the united states is interested in building confront, based on with the restaurant, because they have other priorities because they fail uh to defeat process. and now they wants to normalize relations with russia, in order to escape the war, which they cannot whim and focus their channel. they are probably your, it is on more strategically important things, such as competition against, against china. ross is also interested in the damn things and confirm things on with the united states for a bulk of reasons, rights to fitness you agree in war, on our terms, uh to for, to, to, to establish new rules of the game in the european securities. this that was limits only to you political expansion of the west to reduce sanctions, right?

if we come to the of the question of a reduction of sanctions and there are several concrete topics in the world, b, bottom state b, b, iranian nuclear program or strategic stability, where we both benefit from both directions. now both puts in and trump like to put emphasis on common sense in your science. common sense is a very interesting phenomenon. first of all, it's notably missing, and people with the citizens gets a frantic and autistic tendencies. and also in many ways, it's a mark of cognitive health and a balance embodied live. and i think we've all been missing that in international politics. i'm skeptical of even asking this question, but do you think common sense jenny, and common sense would be brought back into global affairs? well i, i hope so. you know, the arrival of the trump administration,

which does smoke have idea a lot. you go, there is 3 they, they are logical limitations. creates recommendations for common sense. also common sense usually re emerges when you fail. right? uh, again, uh, the united states was bait. are they the, the us previous bullets and was based on the move them. but they kept the paper off, instead of a maintaining normal relations with ross. now there are no longer a carrying this illusion because you know they fails to defeat. draw certainly looked at earlier. they fail processing fee plus a dresser. economically, they fails to isolating process in the, in the world. they understand the shortages and limitations of american. the results is a cup of paper bill up is they understand that they need to re focus them and channel them in a more natural sense. while 2nd advising something

a mess as of yet. so these 3 are really creates but the conditions for the, the revival of the common sense. now, while the americans have failed to come to terms with that limitations, the european partners seem to be holding a competition for the most belligerent on asked, is that with either about why demand put an international or about donor trump in the united states? so what do you think all of this means our european neighbors? well, uh, unfortunately, uh, you know, utilizing a very difficult situation and we are doing the full continuation of conform based on the way up to europe in union and, and collect if you would up i would say that's lunch for 2 reasons. first, but also for be a and kind of gone from based on the games process for kids to really become a pillar of european integration. this is something that brings them together. this is of a need to confront the dates from in order to keep the european union together to spring from. i, integration to the integration in bought

a to come from prostate. you know, they use this come from based on, with russia as a justification for uh, you know, increase of defense spending, deepening the, uh, security integration, defense integration, and so on and so forth. the 2nd for a 2nd reason, you know, new the united states. uh, the administration changed, and donald trump exclusively claims the depaula so so the bite in administration on board mistaken. the claims that the beginning will be green warranties, buying those full ends in the ask useful, but mainland, buying those for. so the chain shall be administration, create the corporate community for the united states to start from different pools europe. nothing changed. you know, we, we see the same people with the same lease, and of course they can not afford to recognize the bankruptcy of their previous boss. i because they wouldn't be in so um, uh john, uh, you know,

they will disappear. they, they, they, they, they will be what's the weight. so they, uh they, they, they, they, uh, they are compelled to continue the same. uh, almost since you been unable a human, although it is doomed to, to print the truth. one thing to call a lot in there puts an old way in heck it to if a name uh in the book. but it's another thing to do the same thing to donald trump, and we see from, from the reaction to zillow. it's to the poster and that he didn't wait long to pull the carpet of military support from under the ukrainians. um, do you think he may do something of the kind to the european so is there actually a cost too old if you are a team grandstanding it possible cost? this is precisely why i said that you represent a very difficult situation because on the one hand, of course they tried to consolidate the gains. donald trump,

right of many of them to uh, explicitly describe donald trump as they're adverse, sorry, by the phone. the audit can, they cannot afford, uh, a believe against the united states. because despite of all the redirect, europe is not the independent geopolitical player. europe is most significant. mueller, for a player, the, is the time the on the united states, militarily, politically and economically beautiful. does not wants to accelerate the 3 more against the united states. very new world is extremely afraid of the us blog uh from uh, from europe and undermining the need to audit, go 5 commitments. so they are dependent on the united states and they want to of course, some of the reconciliation with the trump administration and look at the materials and star merits visits to the washing done. but at the same time, of course, they derive to use donald trump. also as the ex, significant other you know,

together with raso, which uh consolidated the european union. let me tell you mentioned that here things are not independent players and truest. trained that point, i want to bring up some of the data on the structure of the trans atlantic relation to this point of time. the united states provides roughly 70 percent of native financial budgeting around 80 percent of its weaponry. more than 80 percent of its intelligence and recognizance capacity is about 70 percent over its ear and a bmw defense is um the list goes on. i mean, this is a highly skewed and very dependent relationship for the europeans. what i don't understand is why they think it's a good idea to try to solve it. by writing dismissive posts about donald trump is a absolutely dependent on the united states. and of course, of the term of the united states towards the pacific. you know, the conflict,

they secured it to the coupling idea, a logical decoupling between the united states and europe and undermining of the atlantic community. these exist asshole print uh to the card on to the card on to repeat the alerts but the so this is why they try to somehow remedy this situation by similar pania slate down side problem for the break increase of the defense spending and the integration of the european union, but at the same time, combining it with, you know, maintaining of corporation. we do not. it stays in a corporate at the way through this through trying to, you know, engage from disrupt the us. what are some negotiations by bringing some good up in the ideas and then he said this 3 year waiting at destruction, not be spot. this props and i'm going to make some of of the war on a m, uh,

so on and so forth. ultimately, the principal wants to all to leave truck. you know, they understand that. uh, this is the last presidential term on the top administration. they understand that next year they will be mid term elections in the us congress. and quite likely, a trump will become more of a street in his behavior. democrats establish control over one of the good chambers of the congress. so they want to, uh, wait for a kind of this uh, full full, full full for the situation. well, um no, sir, that is successful started here, but i guess we will see you in the next couple of months, which has been great pleasure talking to thank you very much for your time. thank you. my pleasure. and thank you for watching hope this here again, on wells apart. the,

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and is it just because it shows you a few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground? can the appropriate headlines? who are not you international? a disturbing images emerging as hundreds are reported killed in syria. the nation becomes assigned to the mass executions of the hands of the new customer to authorities. now for the 3rd day in a row, about the situation, the terrorizing and syria, locals, fleet 11 on in a simple attempt to save their lives. some of the ongoing conduct we left and crossed the river in order to survive and provide for our children. so we left and came here, they are killing christians and lights based on their identity. if i show my face