c, i d, 's funding causes more homes and countries and then good. so that may not be a bad thing. it's just that we have stuff with that. but for the health workers, we help the private sector and the government would come to assist those housework because we're being funded by us. a id that's mainly and it's not that many for that matter. it's only about $1500.00 workers and they need to be helped out immediately. but the relationship between governments will be strain. it will depend on what happens in international forms. it'll depend on those persons with inputs, different governments, a bit investigative, and different programs. how they can relate to each other and discussions will take place in the multinational forms. i do not think people require at this stage and i agree with the south african government. it will not require a special discussion because i think that would become more of that spectacle, that i referred to earlier, but relationships between south africans and americans. and not just between whites of africans and, and americans. we have relationships with the civil rights movement with and yours

with progressive people. and i'm the ups and you know, there's a lot of people there, a lot of applicants for that matter who did not fit the category of, of economy. well, i mean, i'm in the united states and they are persons that are well known from, you know, um, celebrities like trevor know to, uh, escalating actress is actually strong who remain very committed to south africa. so relationships between trump and for africa is a strain. but on the other level, i think others are keeping a little quiet, but the relationships will not vanish. and i think that's what african united states will sort this out of the time. donaway, thank you so much for your time. this was done on williams, social commentator and international relations expert. thank you, sir. thank you. and we'll have more news for you at the top of the hour. in the meantime, you can always go to our website, r t dot com for even more stories and analysis. the

the hello and welcome to worlds a part. know you'll market deliver the goods mine your looks and manners, and leave emotions at the door. has voted him as a landscape, relied on those tips from the are the big deal. the now he's torn expanding the oval office may have resulted in something more amicable. but the ukranian president shows a different tactic. one also favored by donald trump. never admitting mistakes and repeating the same thing over and over again. what does this between the 2 presidents and their respective countries? we'll discuss that. i'm now i'm joined by the mitre sissler,

deputy director of the center for comprehensive your opinion and international studies at the higher school of economics in multiple, mitre is good to see you again. thank you very much for your time. my pleasure. great to see you too. now i'm sure like most of us, um you found the exchange in the oval office for the drop dropping? what are the main takeaways for you from from that's past? oh, my main think of ways that the trump administration is really committed to ending the war as quickly as possible. they perceive their ukraine more as a winnable and as a distraction which prevents the united states from focusing on really important and strategic issues. and the 2nd take away is that from doesn't come see the ukraine as a counterpart and as a decision maker, and as an actor, ukraine, ukrainian life support defense, 100 percent of on the west. i and uh,

even despite this live support to your brain, the disease and using the war, this is why it wanting to trump. ukraine can log cabin its own opinion. ukraine can both have any objections to what the united states propose is. the job of ukraine is to great fully and accept anything which is offered by the united states and best speed. it'd be great and to reach out to best offer. well, them that i'm here. we know from numerous american officials saying it bible believe that the american side went out of its way to accommodate the ukrainians. and i've heard the number of officials say that the ukrainian side was pretty demanding. in organizing this meeting, they insisted on trunk meetings and landscape, the more kids on the meeting taking place in the oval office and the white house applies to all of that until it went to your how fire. what do you think the premium objective was for coming into the white house and, you know,

having the kind of meeting that they had? well, i think the major you, great in the objective was to convince donald trump to become jo by them. basically went to return to the pool. is there something previous administration support of your brain writing blank checks, you know, and basically promot ukrainian, multi one ukrainian st lamps these objective? because, i mean, i'm the i, i don't think that they fully point site drives to convince the trump administration to promote the landscape, the objectives, lots of the objectives of the united states. and they say now is it allows you put a lot of emphasis on the quote unquote security guarantees. and this is where a trumpet resisted the most. what do you think the ukrainians were trying to get under the somewhat obscure and formal term? well, 1st continuation of mueller 3 days, without any preconditions in definite, the continuation of the military aid, ideally next time,

some of the new looking to a need, a commitment on the front, but ministration to write new blank checks off to the biden's, a bunch of expires, secondly, commitment of the united states to go into war direct war, again, structure starting sort of old war. uh, you know, the, uh, the lease agreement somehow. uh, you know, it is not, uh, kept buying by all the sites. and of course, this was the complete plan, acceptable for the trump white house. now, do you own me a time or one of the most prominent american, fullest scholars whom, you know, very well suggested in one of his recent interviews that the ukrainians were essentially trying to buy the us as military commitment and presence in the ukraine with i have 500000000000 horse of rare earth minerals. and he said that the article for all of that the mineral deal provided for quote,

common protection of critical resources. as an indirect way off time, the americans to your plan and trump didn't want to be entangled in such a way. what's your take on that? do you find a plausible? well, i think that the trump administration made it very clear that they want money from ukraine. they once this is hypothetical, $500000000000.00 for the mula 3 days, which have been the bill of lading, pro quiet, not for the future and meet with $38.00. the 4 is not for any sorts of commitments that you create. a new one for all the united states, you know, the trampling ministration wants to avoid commitments in terms of military support of ukraine in terms of security. get this to the future. i think trump is very clear that this is the job for the european some how to handle it. she doesn't want to die either united states to ukraine in the military sense. and she doesn't, wants to date 80 publications which will the day they start off,

the beast stopped once and did a m. b risk direct camilo. the clash between the united states and brussel we stronghold bessler wants to avoid a popular take here in russia. is that it was a sort of neo colonial deal designed by the americans to extract ukraine's mino resources. but if professor mir timer is right and the abuse savanski was essentially trying to coax trump into committing to defending ukraine. one, that'd be great to embrace and i mean, what does that mean that zelinski is trying to beat chunk of his own game? absolutely. you know, uh, is it ask you wanted to be more prompted than prompt himself. you know, uh, 1st big floors. uh, actually there was thrown dogs that zalinski has those uh, mineral resources. you know, uh most likely the last you wanted to trade in or uh, to the trumpet ministry. so nothing in exchange for clear commitment the united

states and terms of defending your group name and in terms of providing i can definitely eliminate assistance. have of course he failed him in doing bad records from a main. it's very clear that these money is necessary for the meal, a great aid which said being the already provided by the, by the administrator. but uh if i uh, take this uh, 2nd part of the deal, the ukrainians trying to get the americans in under false pretences. i mean, i don't understand what is it lensky was counting on because the main problem is for this conflict and brushing, made it very clear, is to prevent the american presence in ukraine. that was the reason why the crumbling launch this operation. what do you think the calculation was that the kremlin would say ok, just because it's donald trump, we are going to roll out the red carpet for the american troops. i mean, what was he counting on? well, i things and ask it was counting on continuation of the war. you know,

of course, it is absolutely clear that slow ross, right? any military price on a new west, the military presence in ukraine is unacceptable. be american or european. but precise little this reason, as any ask you want as the commitment of american troops and now she wants the commitment the pin troops before is it ask is understand the state empower, is depending on the continuation of the war. as soon as the war ends, the ask you will be out your was to avoid that despite the fact that investment is contamination of the war and the bloom resolved into the ultimate destruction and defeat of ukraine forms enhanced. the in the meantime, continuation of the war is the means for his own personal, political and physical survival. and he wants to prolong it as long as possible. now much has been already said about the ukrainian leadership ability to assess the

basic reality on its own relative place. and if you think it'd be a very public spot and the all of the office is likely to sober uh, is it does advance gives emissions a bit, or is it even possible at this point of time? well, it's hard to answer this question because an ascii is most sober, right? if we all know that he is the drug user, right, then they distort mind and psychology it. however, of the episode and the white call is the most real, a very striking in terms of colorado that has changed because they danced. he was used to be handled like the new torture, you know, like daddy and against the bully. all right. they the represented, the full, the front line, country of the free world, fighting against the global ego. and he was, he was present it like that for me uh for 3 years by the, by the west. and now instead, but she is 3 bit like him, usually keep them up. adventurous leader who,

the on something with all string cards insist kansas bump polluted, risking nighted states into the world war 3. right. and so he was told to enter the into the reality of course, the shopping use for is it ascii, i keep trying to compensate that by the europeans. and psychologically, i think you are being killed in a beat, but most profoundly because you're a piece cannot afford also to cite solely with the landscape against the united states. so they also convinced him, you know, to, to, sol southwick's to be, unless it is. i mean, i know you mentioned psychology and i seen ukraine is a very vivid example of a nation living in the make believe world or me to put a differently, a nation having a collective psychotic outbreak. i mean, you can see that not only in the borders should behavior of leadership, but also in how it's intelligence services or military services are operating in

the hype. uh, that is still maintained in the, in the media. do you see the landscape as the crux of the problem here, or is he just the tip of the asbury again, if he alters his poster or if, even if he leaves office, do you think it's likely to change the way you creating projects itself as a nation, it means that the russia or it's other partners in the europe, in america and around the world. oh, you are so good, right? if your brain lives in the bubble, mugs landscape is a very, a symbolic representative of this bubble. you know, deep zalinski collapse as personally then it will be the beginning of the collapse of the bubble in general. yes, of course. are you know, a, he is the peak of the iceberg. i am the society in which leaves other strong propaganda under no freedom of speech. you know, i can come to terms of the sense of sleep and persecution,

of political arrivals is and so on and so forth. control of bill, it's a, it's all the aspects of political life know electrons and so on and so forth. of course uh, this is a zone the country um uh, but uh the uh, collapse of the symbol of this sort of the country, namely president or, you know, is it asking uh will be the beginning volvic raise your trust formation, which will be fucking for the ukranian society, you know, as well as 1945 smoking for you on hold for the gentleman nation. right. and they were also, i mean they were leaving on the scene on what conditions up until may 1945 be leaving in till the ultimate to be 3. 02 or you know up until the very end. but then eventually it won't collapse so well uh, i think that's the ukrainian so the brain i'm, a society is heading toward so similar the future. but make sure this is on the

country as you put it is right on our border. and many of us do have relatives in the end of the country. i mean, you cannot cod the personal ties completely. and that's a pretty serious question for russia. how it should. 5 not necessarily even bill, it's relationship with ukraine, but deal with ukraine in the state that it is right now, regardless of whether there is any peace deal you know, produced by donald trump or not what's, what's your answer to that? well, i think this is precisely why the russian, the russian government is so much talking about the right. so the rice, i'm speaking the rights of the russian language and frustration of normal conditions in the grade. you know, rush raise concerns, not just about the meal of the aspects of security and not just about neutral status. so few green mold just about the militarization and the limits on the a cranium. we looked at all relations with the west on congress,

multi small deployment, those troops, but also certain normalization of domestic life in ukraine because indeed ukrainians to remain our brother country, our brother nation with innumerable number of enter society, the links right where a relative for links to absolutely right, we are not indifferent towards these people. right? then we want them to return to normalcy. mm hm. okay, well, me too. we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few minutes states. you want the welcome back to world to parts with me. crystal of deputy director of the center

for comprehensive european and international studies at the higher school of economics in moscow, mitre, i don't know if you would agree with me, but i think one of the most refreshing and perhaps of in promising change is coming out of washington is the current leadership approach to diplomacy. both secretary of state through bill wise present bands keep referencing diplomacy. one a one. this is a freshman course that is taught at american universities and where students are told that in order to engage in any interest a dialogue, one needs to approach the other side with the facility and respect. and the, you know, try to understand what the position of the other side. and i think also in his deal in his book rather the are the video. donald trump wrote extensively about investing in a relationship in the business relationship and also call to maintain. i'm basing your reputation on the power on the solidity of your owns war it. and i wonder

if this change is just rhetorical and or do you think it may be for real that diplomacy, once again, is given, you know, their respective deserves as a profession, as a message through which the nations communicate and engage with one another deluxe on i think that the united states is compelled to return to diplomacy in a real sense, a diploma say as an instrument of communication, most some kind of reward or ex wizards element, overlay students among like minded countries, as well as the case for the uh for the previous administration, and the reason is the reason behind that is that the united states fails. it fails to defeat process to inflict strategic defeat on russia. lighted states fails in smoke pena's company confrontation against a several great powers altogether roster china here on north korea altogether.

i end of the human border to get out of that situation which the united states moses. they needs to return to normal to normal diploma, say, as an instrument of communication, not just among friends, and like mind, it's congress, but also among at 1st service among mazda great powers. now i'm moving, of course it, while recognizing the existence. so be interests, all the other side, right? and this is one of the trump administration is doing. but again, let me say this is not because they sincerely wanted to do this. they are come pallet to do this because of the failure, a complete failure of their previous bullets. now you wrote recently that while this a change of tone in bilateral exchange has been most kind of washington is welcome . it should not serve as a reason for your, for you, because russian,

the united states will remain competitors and are hurt the number of the a colleague saying that she definitely isn't it. that's still the case. so we're still competing in many areas, but we also leave when the very uh, per adult cycle time, when the interests national interest of russian, the united states happened to be aligned, they are not shared that not overlapping, but they just happen to be aligned. do you agree with that? absolutely. you know, while remaining strategic competitors, we are both. we both benefit from the assumption of corporation from selective corporation from ending the call, either to more uh, which existed between russian and united states for more than uh for more than 3 years and for ending to confirm dates. right. uh, the united states is interested in ending confront based on with the restaurant, because they have other priorities because they fail uh to defeat the washer. and

now they wants to normalize relations with russia, in order to escape the war, which they can both whim and focus their channel. they are priority is on more strategically important things such as competition against against china, are also also interested in the damn things that come from based on with the united states for a bulk of reasons, rights to finish your brain war on our terms, uh to, to to, to establish new rules of the game in the european secured at the base that was limits fully geopolitical expansion of the west to reduce sanctions, right? if we come to the question of reduction of sanctions, and there are several concrete topics in the world be the bottom of a, b, b, ronnie, a nuclear program or strategic stability where we both benefit from corporate now uh, both puts in and trump like to with emphasis on the common sense i'm in your science,

common sense is a very interesting phenomenon. first of all, it's notably missing, and people with the citizens gets a frantic and autistic tendencies. and also in many ways it's a mark of cognitive health and a balanced in bided live. and i think we've all been missing that in international politics. i'm skeptical of even asking this question, but do you think common sense jenny and common sense could be brought back into global affairs? well i, i hope so. you know, the arrival of the trump administration, which does smoke have idea a lot. you go, there is 3 paid day, a logical limitations. create recommendations for common sense. also common sense usually re emerges when fusions fail. right? again, the united states was big. are they the, the last previous bullets? it was based on the move from the bank and the fee for us instead of

a maintaining normal relations with us. now there are no longer a carrying this illusion because you know, they fails to defeat ross and we looked at earlier, they fail process and the fee process, the, the dresser. economically they fails to isolate process in the, in the world. they understand the shortages and limitations of american results is and couple capabilities. they understand that they need to re focus them and channel them in a more natural sense, while 2nd advising to something unnecessary. so these 3 are really created for the conditions for the 3 bible common sense. now, while the americans have seem to come to terms with that limitations, the european partners seemed to be holding as a competition for the most belligerent on asked, is that with either about why them important and rational or about donor trump in

the united states? um, what do you think uh, all of this leaves are in europe and neighbors? well, uh, unfortunately, uh, you know, judith plays in the very difficult situation and we are doing the full continuation of confirmed based on the way of europe in the union and collect if you would have, i would say that's lunch for 2 reasons. first, but also for the i'm kind of going from, based on the games prospect, gets to really become a paler of european integration. this is something that brings them together. this is of a need to come from takes on in order to keep the european union together to spring from i, integration to the integration important to confront, process you know, they use this come from based on with the process as a justification form. uh, you know, increase of defense spending, deepening the, uh, security integration, defense integration, and so on and so forth. the 2nd for a 2nd, the reason you know, do the united states uh,

the administration changed. and donald trump, exclusively claims the the policy as of the bite and administration on board mistake. he claims that the beginning will view green warranties buying those full m, as in the ask useful, but mainland, buying those for. so the chain shall be administration, create that over to unity for the united states to start the different polls. europe, nothing changed. you know, we, we see the same people with the same lease, and of course they can not afford to recognize the bankruptcy of their previous boss. i, because they wouldn't be, you know, a job that's uh, you know, they would disappear. they, they, they, they, they wouldn't be what's the weight. so they, uh they, they, they, they, uh, they are compelled to continue the same problem. i sent you one of the, both of you on the, although it is, don't forget to print the truth. one thing to call a lot in there, put an old way in heck it to if

a name uh in the book. but it's another thing to do the same thing to donald trump and we see from trump's reaction to zillow. it's to use the post here and that he didn't wait long to pull the carpet of military support from under the ukrainians. um, do you think he may do something of the kind to the european so is there actually a cost too old if you are a team grandstanding it possible cost basis? precisely why i said that you represent a very difficult situation because on the one hand, of course they tried to consolidate against donald trump. right? many of them to uh, explicitly describe donald trump as they're adverse every month on the audit can. they cannot afford, uh, a believe against the united states, because despite of all the redirect, europe is not them independent. geopolitical play unit is not a significant. mueller, for player, the is the band on the united states,

militarily and politically and economically. europe does not wants to accelerate a trade war against the united states. the world is extremely afraid of the us, blout frome from europe and undermining the need to audit, go 5 commitments. so they are dependent on the united states and they want of course, some reconciliation with the trump administration and look at the materials and star merits visits to the washing done by the same time. of course they try to use donald trump also as the significant other you know, together with raso which uh, consolidates the european union. make sure you mentioned that here. things are not independent players and trellis trained. that point i want to bring up some of the data on the structure of the trans atlantic relation to this point of time. the united states provides roughly 70 percent of need his financial budgeting around 80

percent of its weaponry. more than 80 percent of its intelligence and recognizance capacity is about 70 percent of its ear and a bmw defenses on the list goes on. i mean, this is a highly skewed and very dependent relationship with the europeans. what i don't understand is why they think it's a good idea to try to solve it. by writing dismissive posts about donald trump is a not absolutely dependent on the united states. it's on the force of the term of the united states towards the pacific. you know the conflict basic unit to the coupling idea, a logical decoupling between the united states and europe and undermining of the atlantic community. he's exist asshole threat to the current to the card and you repeat it leads, bought and sold. this is why they try to somehow remedy this situation by similar

pania slate down side problem. pretty great. increase of the defense spending of the integration of the european union. but at the same time, combining it with, you know, maintaining both corporation with the united states in a corporate or the way through the fees is through trying to, you know, engaged from disrupt, the us. what are some negotiations by bringing some to repeating the ideas? and then he said this 3 year waiting at this thoughtful multi spot, this props and then the continuation of, of the war i and so on and so forth. ultimately, the principal wants to all to be from, you know, they understand that uh, this is the last presidential term on the top of ministration. they understand that next year they will be mid term elections in the us congress. and quite likely, a trump will become more street in his behavior if democrats establish control over

one of the good chambers of the congress. so they wants to, uh, wait for kind of this uh, full 4 full full full the situation. well, um no, sir, that is successful started here, but i guess we will see you in the next couple of months, which has been great pleasure talking to thank you very much for your time. thank you. my pleasure. and thank you for watching hope this here again on walter part the the

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