stays, proposes the job of ukraine is uh to grateful and accept anything which is offered by the united states and best speed. easy, great. and to reach out to the best offer. well, them that i'm here. we know from numerous american officials saying it bible lead that the american side went out of its way to accommodate the ukrainians. and i've heard the number of officials say that the ukrainian side was pretty demanding. in organizing this meeting, they insisted on trump meetings and landscape the more kids on the meeting taking place in the oval office. and the white house applies to all of that until it went to your how fire. what do you think the premium objective was for coming into the white house and, you know, having the kind of meeting that they have? well, i think the major you creating an objective was to convince donald trump to become jo by them. basically went to return to the pool as something previous administration support of your brain writing blank checks, you know,

and basically promote ukrainian multiplan, ukrainian lamps these object. of course, i mean i'm the i, i don't think that they fully point site drives to convince the trump administration to promote the landscapes, objectives, lots of the objectives of the united states. and they say now is allows to put a lot of emphasis on the quote unquote security guarantees. and this is where trump was this the most. what do you think the ukrainians were trying to get under the somewhat obscure and formal term? well, 1st continuation of new a 3 days without any brick conditions in depth, and that's the continuation of the military aid, ideally next time some of the me looking to have a commitment on the front, but ministration to write new blank checks off to the by them's a bunch of expires. secondly, commitment of the united states to go into war, but rick war against offsets starting starts world war. uh, you know, you uh,

the peace agreement somehow. uh, you know, it is not uh, kept by and by the, by all the sites and the fords. uh, this was the complete line, acceptable for the trump white house. now, do you own me a time or one of the most prominent american, fullest scholars whom, you know, very well suggested in one of his recent interviews that the ukrainians were essentially trying to buy the us as military commitment and presence in the ukraine with by have 500000000000 horse of rare earth minerals. and he said that uh, article for all of that uh, mineral deal provided for quote, common protection of critical resources. as an indirect way of tying the americans to your plan. and trump didn't want to be entangled in such a way. what's your take on that? do you find a plausible? well, i think that the trump administration made it very clear that they want money from

ukraine. they once this is hypothetical, $500000000000.00 for the mula 3 days, which have been the bill of lading pro quite a bit not fully viewed formula $38.00. the part is not for any sorts of commitments that you create a new one for all the united states. you know, the trampling ministration wants to avoid commitments in terms of military support of ukraine in terms of security. get this to the future. i think trump is very clear that this is the job for the european some how to handle it. she doesn't want to die either united states to you great in the military sense. and she doesn't, wants to de 80 publications which will the pay this off. the b switch dropped once . the a, a m b risk direct camila, the class with when the united states and brussel we stronghold bessler wants to avoid a popular take here in russia is that it was a sort of neo colonial deal designed by the americans to extract or ukraine's mino

resources but if professor mirrors hymer is right and the abuse, savanski was essentially trying to coax trump into committing to defending ukraine . one that'd be great to embrace. and i mean, what does that mean that zelinski is trying to beat chunk of his own game? absolutely, you know, uh, is it ask you wanted to be more prompted than prompts himself. you know, uh, 1st big bores. uh, actually there was thrown dogs that zelinski has those, uh, mineral resources. you know, uh most likely is the last you wanted to trade in or uh, to the trump administration. nothing in exchange for clear commitment, the united states and terms of defending your group name and in terms of providing i can definitely look at the assistance you have. of course he failed him in doing that because the drum uh,

made it very clear that these money is necessary for the military aid, which has been the already provided by the, by the administrator. but uh if i uh, take this uh, 2nd part of the deal, the ukrainians trying to get the americans in under false pretenses. i mean, i don't understand what dimansky was counting on because the main problem is with this conflict and russian made it very clear is to prevent the american presence in ukraine. that was the reason why the kremlin lodge this operation. what do you think the calculation was. c the kremlin would say, okay, and just because it's donald trump, we're going to roll out the red carpet for the american troops. i mean of what was he counting on? well, i things and ask you was counting on continuation of the war. you know, of course, it is absolutely clear that for us, right, if you look at a price on a new west and we looked at her presence in ukraine, is unacceptable. be american or european. but precisely for this reason as any else could want. it's because management of american troops,

and now he wants to the commitment of the european troops before us is it ask is understand, the state empower, is depending on the continuation of the war. as soon as the war ends, the ask you will be out your wants to avoid that, despite the fact that it came back into the continuation of the war and with the bloom resolved into the ultimate destruction and defeat of ukraine. forbes enhanced the in the meantime, attempting to a some of the war is the means for his own personal, political and physical survival. and she wants to prolong it as long as possible. now much has been already said about the ukrainian leadership ability to assess the basic reality on its own relative place. and if you think it'd be a very public spot in the all the office is likely to sober uh, is it does advance gives emissions a bit, or is it even possible at this point of time? well, it's hard to answer this question because an ascii is most sober, right?

if we all know that he is a drug user, right, and this distorts mind and psychology it, however, of the episode and the white call is the most real, a very striking in terms of colorado that has changed because they ask you was used to be handled like the new chart so you know like that in the gains to bully. all right. they the representative for the front line country of the free world fighting against the global people. and he was, he was president and likes that form uh for 3 years by the, by the west. and now instead that she is 3 bit liken eulley cheetham of adventurous leader, who, the month, something with all stream cards and kits, kansas. but i'm a product risk getting the united states into the world war 3, right. and so he was going to cancel the into the a yellow, of course, that's

a shocking use for is the ascii. i keep trying to pump and say that by the europeans, and psychologically, i think you're being scaled in a beat, but most profoundly before is the unit piece. jim mazda ford also decided to fully wave video ski against the united states. so they also convince him, you know, to, to show some flexibility because, i mean, i know you mentioned psychology and i seen ukraine is a very vivid example of a nation living in the make believe world or me to put a different we, a nation having a collective psychotic outbreak. i mean, you can see that not only in the borders should behavior of leadership, but also in how it's intelligence services or military services operating in the hype. that is to maintain in the, in the media. do you see the landscape as the coax of the problem here, or is he just the tip of the iceberg? and if he alters his poster, or if even if he leaves office,

do you think it's likely to change the way you creating projects itself as a nation, and he's in the restaurant or it's other partners in the europe, in america and around the world. oh, you are so good, right. if your brain lives in a bubble, monthly landscape is a very, a symbolic way to present that. the hope is above, you know, the zalinski collapses personally, then it will be the beginning of the collapse of the bubble in general. yes, of course are, you know, a, he is the people, the iceberg. i am the society in which leaves under strong propaganda under no freedom of speech. you know, i can come to terms of a sense of shape and persecution, of political arrivals and so on. and so forth, control ability, all the aspects of political life, no elections, and so on and so forth. of course, the business is going to be congress on the box uh the uh,

collapse of the symbol of this sort of the country, namely president or, you know, they ask, will be the beginning, volvic, raise your trust formation, which will be fucking for the ukranian society you know, as well as 1945 smoking for you on hold for the german nation. right. and they were also, i mean they were leaving on the scene to what conditions up until may 1945 of the leading into the ultimate victory or fluid or you know, up until the very ends. but then eventually it won't collapse so well uh, i think that's a ukrainian so the premiums of a society is heading toward so similar future. but make sure this is on the country as you put it is right on our border. and many of us do have relatives in the end of the country. i'm in the account of uh, cod, the personal ties completely. and that's

a pretty serious question for russia. how it should um, not necessarily even build its relationship with ukraine, but deal with ukraine in the state that it is right now, regardless of whether there is any peas deal and you know, produced by donald trump or not what's, what's your answer to that? well, i think this is precisely why russian, that awesome government is so much talking about the right. so there are some speaking the rights of the russian language and frustration of normal conditions in the upgrade. you know, rush raise concerns, not just about the meal of the aspects of security and not just about neutral status or few green mold just about the militarization and the limits on the cranium. mueller relations with the west on congress. not just mon deployment, both groups, but also certain normalization of domestic life in the ukraine because in the ukrainians to remain our brother con. great. i will brother mason with the new

model, number of interest aside a links, right? where a relative for links you asked to look to the right. we are not indifferent towards these people. right? then we want them to return to normalcy. okay, well, mr. we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few minutes state. you and the the take a fresh look around. there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion, by how of tired vision with no real opinions pictures

designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills. and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this? but can you see through their illusion going on the ground can despite everything gray breeze go to the front lines with that eagerly awaited they pray. in the trenches and bunkers and hospitals destroyed churches, they pray for peace. started thinking out of town and ask, what was the 1st or what kind of stuff but for the last 2 years, 2 years. so mutual secondary in the civil sleep and your last inspection from watch for discharge or just try to bristol shape or gotcha. so the way i've been here, it's called

the best interest of this as far as i finished up as a hold on all the sharon fish, just plug it in for service describes this new janessa joining the welcome back to worlds of parts with mixers. so some of deputy director of the center for comprehensive european and international studies of the higher school of economics in moscow. mitre, i don't know if you would agree with me, but i think one of the most refreshing and perhaps of in promising change is coming

out of washington is the current leadership approach to diplomacy, both secretary of state through bureau, otherwise present bands keep referencing diplomacy. one, a one, this is a freshman course that is taught at american universities and where students are told that in order to engage in any interest a dialogue, one needs to approach the other side is the civility and respect. and the o, you know, try to understand what the position of the other side. and i think also in his deal in his book rather the hours of the deal. donald trump wrote extensively about investing in a relationship in a business relationship and also called debating and basing your reputation on the power on the solidity of your owns worth. and i wonder if this change is just rhetorical and or do you think you've made before real. that diplomacy, once again, is given, you know, their respective, deserves as a profession, as

a message through which the nations communicate and engage with one another deluxe on. i think that the united states is compelled to return to diplomacy in a real sense, a diploma say as an instrument of communication mode, some kind of reward or ex, waive that element, overlay. something along like mind that countries as well as the case for the uh, for the previous administration. and the reason is, the reason behind that is that the united states fails. it fails to defeat process to inflict strategic defeat on russia. the united states fails in simultaneous conflict, confrontation against a several great powers altogether ross, which i cannot get on north korea altogether by the end of the order to get out of that situation which the united states moses, they needs to return to normal to normal diplomacy as an instrument of

communication mode, just among friends and like minded congress, but also among at 1st service among mazda great powers. now i'm moving, of course, while recognizing the existence of the interests of the other side. right. and this is one of the trumpet. ministration is doing, but again, let me say this is not to be course they sincerely wanted to do this. spain come out to do this because of the failure, a complete failure of their previous bullets now. and your role recently that wild is a change of tone in bilateral exchange has been most kind of washington is welcome . it should not serve as a reason for your, for it, because russian, the united states still remain competitors and are heard a number of your colleagues saying that she can definitely play. that's still the case. so we're still competing in many areas, but we also leave in the very per adults,

single time when the interest national interest of a russian, the united states happened to be aligned. they are not shared, that not overlapping, but they just happen to be aligned. do you agree with that? absolutely. you know, while remaining strategic competitors, we are both. we both benefit from the assumption of corporation from selective corporation from ending the call either to more uh, we exist a different russian united states for more than uh for more than 3 years and for ending to confront data. right. uh, the united states is interested in building confront, based on with the restaurant before they have all the priority just because they fail uh to defeat the washer. and now they wants to normalize relations with russia in order to escape the war, which they can both whim and focus their channel. they are probably your, those on more strategically important things, such as competition against,

against china. ross is also interested in and things and confrontation with the united states for a bulk of reasons, rights to finish inquiry and war on our terms uh to for, to, to, to establish new moves of the game in the european securities. this, that was limits. bully geopolitical expands some of the west to reduce sanctions, right? if we could up to the place and also a reduction of sanctions. and there are several concrete topics in the world be the bottom state, be the uranium nuclear program, or strategic stability, where we both benefit from corporate right now. uh, both puts in trump a like to put emphasis on common sense um, in your science uh common sense is a very interesting phenomenon. first of all, it's notably missing and people with a certain skips of frantic and autistic tendencies. and also in many ways, it's

a mark of cognitive house and a balanced, embodied live. and i think we've all been missing dot and international politics. i'm skeptical of even asking this question, but do you think common sense jenny and common sense could be brought back into global affairs? well i, i hope so. you know, the arrival of the trumpet ministration, which does smoke have idea a lot. you go, there is 3 a day, a logical limitations creates recommendations for common sense. also common sense usually re emerges when you fail. right? again, uh the united states was big. are they the, the us previous fullest and was based on the move them. but they kept the fee for us instead of both maintaining normal relations with us. now there are no longer a carrying this illusion because you know, they fail to the feed rush and we looked at earlier, they failed process of the,

the process of the defeat ross. economically they fails to isolating process in the, in the world. they understand the shortages and limitations of american resources and because of capability is they understand that they need to re focus them and channel them in a more natural sense, while sacrificing to something a mess as of yet. so these 3 really creates, but it can do some sort of a revival storming sense now, while the americans have uh, seem to come to terms with that limitations. uh, the european partners uh seems to be holding a, a competition for the most belligerent on, asked, is that with either about why demand put an international or about donor trump in the united states? so, what do you think all of these means our european neighbors? well, uh, unfortunately, uh, you know, utilizing a very difficult situation and we are doing the full continuation of conform based

on the way up to europe in union and collect if you would up i would say that's lunch for 2 reasons. first, but also for be a and kind of gone from based on the gains process is to really become a paler of european integration. this is something that brings them together. this is of a need to come from, take something in order to keep the european union together to spring from an integration to the integration in bought a to confront the process. so you know, they use this come from based on where the process as adjust the vacation for uh, you know, increase of defense spending, deepening the, uh, security integration, defense integration, and so on and so forth. the 2nd for a 2nd. the reason you know, due the united states uh, the administration changed and donald prom explicitly claims the depaula. so subdivided, administration warrant mistake. the grains, the beginning will view green warranties, buying those full m, as in the ascii school. but mainland,

buying those for so the chain shall be administration, create that corporate community for the united states to start the different polls in the hold up. nothing changed. you know, we, we see the same people with the same lease, and of course they cannot afford to recognize the bankruptcy of their previous boss . i, because they wouldn't be, you know, a job that's uh, you know, they would disappear. they, they, they, they, they wouldn't be what's the weight. so they, uh they, they, they, they, uh, they are compelled to continue the same policy. mm hm. it was a human, although it is don't for the friends, mr. it's one thing to call a lot in there, puts an old way in heck it to if a name uh in the book. but it's another thing to do the same thing to donald trump, and we see from, from the reaction to zillow, keys, the poster, and that he didn't wait long to pull the carpet of military support from under the

ukrainians. um, do you think he may do something of the kind to the european so is there actually a cost to old if you are a team grandstanding it possible cost basis? precisely why i said that you represent a very difficult situation because on the one hand of pores they tried to consolidate the gains. donald trump, right of many of them to uh, explicitly describe donald trump as they're adverse, sorry, by the on the audit can. they cannot afford uh, a believe against the united states because despite of all the redirect, europe is not them independent gym, political play. europe is not a significant. mueller, for a player, the is the them, the on the united states, militarily and politically. and they come home and color udall does not wants to accelerate the 3. the war against the united states today is extremely afraid of the us pullout uh, from uh, from europe and undermining the need to audit,

go 5 commitments. so they are dependent on the united states and they want to of course, some reconciliation with the trump administration and look at the materials and star motors visits to the washing done. but the same time, of course, they tried to use the problem also as the ex, significant other you know, together with raso, which uh, consolidated the, your theme, you know, make sure you mentioned that to your opinions and not independent players. and to illustrate that point, i want to bring up some of the data on the structure of the trans atlantic relationship. at this point of time, the united states provides roughly 70 percent of native financial budgeting around 80 percent of its weaponry. more than 80 percent of its intelligence and reconnaissance capacity is about 70 percent of its ear and a bmw defense is um the list goes on. i mean, this is

a highly skewed and very dependent relationship for the europeans. what i don't understand is why they think it's a good idea to try to solve it. by writing dismissive posts about donald trump, they are absolutely dependent on the united states and the force of the term of the united states towards the pacific. you know, the conflict, the security, the coupling idea, a logical decoupling between the united states and europe, and undermining of the atlantic community, these existential threat to the current, to the economy. you repeat the alerts, but and so this is why they try to somehow remedy this situation by similar pania slay, down by problem free break, increase of the defense spending of the integration of the european union. but at the same time, combining it with, you know, maintaining both corporation with the united states in the corporate and the way

through this through trying to, you know, engage from the thoughts of the us. what are some negotiations by bringing some good up in the ideas? and then he said this 3 year waiting at the thoughtful, multi spot, this props and i'm going to make some of, of the war i and so on and so forth. ultimately, the principal wants to all stuff, you know, they understand that uh, this is the last presidential term on the top administration. they understand that next year they will be need term elections in the us congress. and quite likely, a prompt will become more a street in his behavior if democrats establish control over one of the good chambers of the congress. so they want to, uh, wait for kind of this uh, full 4 full full for this situation. well,

um no, sir, that is successful started here, but i guess we will see in the next couple of months, which have been great pleasure talking to thank you very much for your time. thank you. my pleasure, and thank you for watching hope this here again on worlds apart. the, [000:00:00;00]

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the hundreds of people are reported killed in syria. one is described as last executions conducted by the due authorities that a warning that these reports contain disturbing images. a russian troops gave refuge to local residents leading from the fallen, but the military base trying to facilitate dialogue between local syrians and government representatives at least one puzzling is killed. and 6 of those uh windows has to be trained, uses us myself to strike a crowded moccasin blushes pops on regions. this is the catholic church of saint