stakes and repeating the same thing over and over again. what does this between the 2 presidents and their respective countries or to discuss with them now and joined by the nutritionist left deputy director of the center for comprehensive, your opinion and international studies, and the higher school of economics in moscow. mitre is good to see you again. thank you very much for your time. my pleasure. i'd great to see you too. now i'm sure like most of us, um you found the exchange in the oval office? we did drop dropping. what are the main takeaways for you from from that's past? oh, my main take away is that the trump administration is really committed to ending the war as quickly as possible. they perceive the ukraine more as a winnable and as a distraction which prevents the united states from focusing on really important and strategic issues. and the 2nd take away is that from doesn't consider ukraine as a counterpart. and as a decision maker, and as an actor, ukraine,

ukrainian life support the pounds, 100 percent of on the west. i and uh, even despite this live support, do you agree? and it is me using the war. this is why it's going to trump. ukraine can log cabin its own opinion. ukraine can both have any objections to what the united states propose is. the job of ukraine is to great fully and accept anything which is offered by the united states and best speed you'll be bringing the re jets best offer. well, them that i'm here. we know from numerous american officials saying a bible lead that the american side went out of its way to accommodate the ukrainians. and i've heard the number of officials say that the ukraine inside was pretty demanding. in organizing this meeting, they insisted on trunk meetings, alaska, the more kids on the meeting taking place and they will office and the white house

applies to all of that until it went to your house fire. what do you think the premium objective was for coming into the white house and you know, having the kind of meeting that they have? well, i think the major you, great in the objective was to convince donald trump to become jo. mind them basically went to return to the pool as of the previous administration, as a part of your brain writing blank checks, you know, and basically promote ukrainian loyalty when you bring and slammed these object. of course, i mean i'm the, i, i don't think that they fully point the site drives to convince the trump administration to promote the landscape, the objectives, not the objectives of the united states. and they say now is allows to put a lot of emphasis on the quote unquote security guarantees. and this is where trump was this the most. what do you think the ukrainians were trying to get under the somewhat obscure and formal term?

so 1st continuation of new a 3 days without any preconditions in depth, and that the continuation of the mueller 38, ideally next time some of the me looking to the aid and commitment of the front, but ministration to write new blank checks up to the by them a bunch of expires. secondly, commitment of the united states to go into more direct war. again, structure starting sort of old war. uh, you know, you uh, the peace agreement somehow. uh, you know, it is not uh, kept by and by the, by all the sites and of course, this was the complete line, acceptable for the trump white house. now join me a time or one of the most prominent american pool assess scholars whom, you know, very well suggested in one of his recent interviews that the ukrainians were essentially trying to buy. the us as military commitment and presence in the ukraine with i have 5,

a 100000000000 horse off rare earth minerals. and he said that the article for all that a new role deal provided for quote, common protection of critical resources. as an indirect way off time, the americans to your plan and trump didn't want to be entangled in such a way. what's your take on that? do you find a plausible? well, i think that the trump administration made it very clear that they want money from ukraine. they, once this is hypothetical, $500000000000.00 for the military aid, which says billable already provided. not for the future me. 138. the 4 is not for any sorts of commitments that ukrainian one for all the united states. you know, the promptly ministration wants to avoid commitments in terms of meal of the support of ukraine in terms of think you'd have to get this to the future. i think drop is very clear that this is the job for the repeating some how to handle it.

she doesn't want to die either united states to you agree in the military sense and she doesn't wants to take a publications. we sort of pay this off, the b switch dropped once a bit, a, a m b risk direct camila. the clash between the united states and brussel we stronghold bessler wants to avoid a popular take here in russia is that it was the sort of neo colonial deal designed by the americans to extract ukraine's menial resources. but if professor mir timer is right and the abuse, savanski was essentially trying to coax trump into committing to defending ukraine, wouldn't. that'd be great to embrace. and i mean, what does that mean that zelinski is trying to beat chunk of his own game? absolutely, you know, uh, is it ask you wanted to be more proper than prompt himself. you know, uh 1st before i actually, there was thrown dogs that zalinski has those. uh mean,

the sources, you know, most likely is the last you wanted to trade in to the trump with ministry. so nothing in exchange for clear commitment of the united states in terms of defending your fame and in terms of providing i can definitely look at the assistance you have. of course you failed him in doing that because from a main it's very clear that these money is necessary for the meal. a great aid which said being the already provided by them, by the administrator. but uh, if i take this uh, 2nd part of the deal, the ukrainians trying to get the americans in under false pretences. i mean, i don't understand what defines do was counting on because the main problem is for this conflict and brushing, made it very clear, is to prevent the american presence in ukraine. that was the reason why the crumbling launch this operation. what do you think the calculation was that the kremlin would say ok, just because it's donald trump,

we are going to roll out the red carpet for the american troops. i mean, what was he counting on? well, i think the landscape was counting on continuation of the war. you know, of course, it is absolutely clear that for us, right? any military price on a new west, the military presence in ukraine is unacceptable. be american or european. but precisely for basic reason, as any ask you want as the commitment of american troops. and now he wants the commitment the pin troops before it is it ask you as understand the state empower is depending on the continuation of the war. as soon as the war ends, the ask you will be out your was to avoid that, despite the fact that investment is contamination of the war and the day with the bloom resolved into the ultimate destruction, empty feet of ukraine for the landscape in the, in the meantime, attempting to a some of the war is the news for his own personal, political and physical survival. and she wants to grow longer as long as possible.

now much has been already sad about the ukrainian leadership ability to assess the basic reality on its own relative place. and if do you think the very public spot in the all of the office is likely to sober uh, is it does advance gives emissions a bit, or is it even possible at this point of time? well, it's hard to answer this question because an ascii is most sober, right? as we all know that he is a product user, right, and they distort mind and psychology it. however, of the episode them to white call is the most real, a very striking in terms of colorado. it has changed because they ask you was used to be handled like the new chart. so you know, like daddy and against a bully. all right. they represented the full, the front line country of the free world, fighting against the global people. and she was, she was present and like that form for 3 years by the,

by the west. and now instead that she is 3 bit like i'm using, keep them up, adventurous leader who, the month, something was all strong cards, insist kansas bump powder, risking nighted states into the world war 3. right. and so he was supposed to get into the, into the reality of course, the shopping use for is it asking, i keep trying to compensate that by the europeans. and psychologically, i think you're being scaled in a beat, but most profoundly because the other piece cannot afford also decided to fully waves the landscape against the united states. so they also convince him, you know, to, to, sol, solved flexibility. it is, i mean, i know you mentioned psychology and i thing ukraine is a very vivid example of a nation living in the make believe world or me to put a differently a nation having its elective psychotic outbreak. and you can see that not only in

the boyish behavior of leadership, but also in how it's intelligence services or military services are operating in the hype. uh, that is still maintained in the, in the media. do you see the landscape as the crux of the problem here, or is he just the tip of the iceberg? and if he alters his poster, or if, even if he leaves office, do you think it's likely to change the way you creating projects itself as a nation? it means that the russia or it's other partners in the europe, in america and around the world. oh, you are so good, right? if your brain lives in the bubble. mugs landscape is a very, a symbolic representative of this bubble. you know, deep zalinski collapse is personally then it will be the beginning of the collapse of the bubble in general. yes, of course. are, you know, a, he is the peak of the iceberg. and the society in which lease under strong

propaganda under no freedom of speech, you know, i can come to terms of a sense of sleep and persecution, of political arrivals and so on and so forth. control of bill and say all the aspects of political life know electrons and so on and so forth. of course, uh, this is going to be concrete. um, uh, box uh the uh, collapse of the symbol of this sort of the country, namely president or, you know, they ask will be the beginning volvic, raise your transformation, which will be fucking for the ukranian society. you know, as well as 1945 smoking for you on hold for the gentleman nation. right. and they were also, i mean they were leaving on the scene on what conditions up until may 1945 be leaving in to the ultimate victory or fluid or you know, up until the very down. but then eventually it won't collapse so well uh,

i think that's a ukrainian so the great him, a society is heading toward so similar the future. but make sure this is on the country as you put it is right on our water. and many of us do have relatives in the end of the country. i'm in the account of cod, the personal ties completely. and that's a pretty serious question for russia. how it should um, not necessarily even bill its relationship with ukraine, but deal with ukraine in the state that it is right now, regardless of whether there is any peace deal you know, produced by donald trump or not what's, what's your answer to that? well, i think this is precisely why are our friends that awesome government is so much talking about the right. so the rice, i'm speaking the rights of the russian language and frustration of normal conditions in the upgrade. you know, rush race concerns, not just about the military aspects of security and not just about unusual status.

so few green mold just about the militarization and the limits on the cranium. we looked at of relations with the west on congress and we'll just, mon deployment, both groups, but also certain normalization of domestic life in the ukraine because of the ukrainians to remain our brother country, our brother and nation with innumerable number of enter society. the links, right where a relative for links to absolute fluoride. we are not indifferent towards these people. right? then we want them to return to normalcy. mm hm. okay, well, mr. we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few minutes. stay tuned. the

there is no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth. is the case of the med, most of the people i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also a pursuit. this is the 3rd world will receive re washington, as for so the funder line likes to say, we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deals. what are some of the moving on? we have very quick propaganda. you know a price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. some more questions ask a better. the answer is will be the welcome back to worlds of parts with mixers, total of deputy director of the center for comprehensive european and international studies of the higher school of economics in moscow, mitre, i don't know if you would agree with me, but i think one of the most refreshing and perhaps of in promising change is coming

out of washington is the current leadership approach to diplomacy, both secretary of state through bureau, otherwise present bands keep referencing diplomacy. one a one. this is a freshman course that is taught at american universities and, or students are told that in order to engage in any interest a dialogue, one needs to approach the other side with the civility and respect. and the, you know, try to understand what the position of the other side. and i think also in his deal in his book rather the are the video. donald trump wrote extensively about investing in a relationship in a business relationship and also called debating and basing your reputation on the power on the solidity of your owns worth. and i wonder if this change is just rhetorical and or do you think you've made before real. that diplomacy, once again is given. you know, the risk definitely deserves as a profession, as

a mass, as through which the nations communicate and engage with one another. so like, so i think that the united states is compelled to return to diplomacy in a real sense, a diploma say as an instrument of communication, most some kind of reward or ex we've, it's a element of relations among like minded countries as well as the case for the uh, for the previous administration. and the reason is, the reason behind that is that the united states fails. it fails to defeat prussia to inflict strategic defeat on russia. there's a lot of states fails in simultaneous conflict, confrontation against a several great powers altogether. garage, which i know you're on north korea altogether, by the end of the order to get out of that situation which the united states moses. they leads to return to normal to normal diplomacy as an

instrument of communication mode just among friends and like minded congress. but also among at 1st service among mazda great powers. now i'm moving, of course, while recognizing the existence of the interests of the other side. right. and this is one of the trump administration is doing. but again, let me say this is multi before is they sincerely wanted to do this. they come out to do this because of the failure, a complete failure of their previous bullets. now your role recently that wild is a change of tone in bilateral exchange has been most kind of washington is welcome . it should not serve as a reason for your, for you, because russian, the united states still remain competitors and are heard a number of your colleagues saying that she definitely isn't it. that's still the case. so we're still competing in areas, but we also leave in

a very per adult physical time when the interest national interest of a russian, the united states happened to be aligned, they are not shared, that not overlapping, but they just happen to be aligned. do you agree with that? absolutely. you know, while remaining strategic competitors, we have both. we both benefit from the assumption of corporation from selective corporation from ending the call. either more uh we exist to defend russian and united states for more than for more than 3 years and for ending the confrontation . right? uh, the united states is interested in ending confront based on with the restaurant, because they have other priorities because they fail uh to defeat process. and now they wants to normalize relations with russia in order to escape the war, which they can both whim and focus their channel. their priority is on more

strategically important things such as competition against against china. ross is also interested in the damn things and confrontation with the united states for a bulk ovaries. it's right to finish and graham war on our terms of 2422, to establish new moves of the game in the european securities. this that was limits . bully geopolitical, expand some of the west to reduce sanctions, right? if we come to the of the question of a reduction of sanctions. and there are several concrete topics in the world, b, bottom, a, b, b, jani of nuclear program, or strategic stability. when we both benefit from corporate right now, uh, both puts in trump a like to put emphasis on common sense in your science. common sense is a very interesting phenomenon. first of all, it's notably missing. and people with the students skips the frantic and autistic

tendencies, and also in many ways since a mark of cognitive health and a balance embodied live. and i think we've all been missing dot and international politics. i'm skeptical of even asking this question, but do you think uh, commonsense janny and commonsense could be brought back into global affairs? well i, i hope so. you know, the arrival of the trump administration which does smoke have idea a lot. you go, there is 3, they are logical limitations, creates brick and do some support for common sense. also, common sense usually emerges when fusions fail, right? again, uh the united states was big. are they the, the us, previous fullest? it was based on the move them. but they kept the paper off, instead of maintaining normal relations with brush. now there are no longer a carrying this illusion because you know, they failed to the feed rush and we looked at earlier,

they failed process of the process of the defeat ross. economically, they fails to isolating process in the, in the world. they understand the short inches and limitations of american results is and because of capabilities, they understand that they need to re focus them and channel them in a more natural sense while sacrificing to something a mess as of yet. so these 3 really creates but the conditions for the revival of the common sense. now, while the americans have failed to come to terms with that invitations, the european partners seem to be holding a competition for the most belligerent or nasty, is that we've either about why demand put an international or about donor trump in the united states. so what do you think uh, all of this means our european neighbors? well, uh, unfortunately, uh, you know, utilizing a very difficult situation and we are doing the full continuation of consolidation

with us in union and, and collect if you would up i would say that's lunch for 2 reasons. first, but also for be a and kind of gone from based on the gains prospect, gets to really become a pillar of european integration. this is something that brings them together. this is of a need to come from think something in order to keep the union together to spring from an integration for them, even with the integration in border to confront process. so, you know, they use this confront based on with the process as a justification for uh, you know, increase of defense spending, deepening the, uh, security integration, defense integration, and so on and so forth. the 2nd, the 2nd reason you know, new the united states uh, the administration changed. and donald trump, exclusively claims the depaula. so subdivided administration, war mistake, the grains, the beginning will be green warranties, buying those full m,

as in the ascii school. but mainland, buying those for so the chain shall be administration, create that corporate community for the united states to start the different poles in the hold up. nothing changed. you know, the way we see the same people with the same lease. and of course, they cannot afford to recognize the bankruptcy of their previous boss. i because they wouldn't be, you know, a job that's uh, you know, they would disappear. they, they, they, they, they would be what the weight. uh so they, uh they, they, they, they, uh, they are compelled to continue the same policy. mm hm. uh, a bullet, a human, although it is doomed to, to print the truth. one thing to call a lot of them here puts an old way in heck it to, if a name uh in the book. but it's another thing to do the same thing to donald trump and we see from, from the reaction uh to zillow, excuse the poles turned that he did it the way it belonged to pull the carpet of

military support from under the ukrainians. um, do you think he may do something of the kind to the europeans? uh, is there actually a cost too old if you were a team grandstanding it possible cost? this is precisely why i said that you replacing the very difficult situation because on the one hand of pores they tried to consolidate the games. donald trump, right of many of them to uh, explicitly describe donald trump as they're adverse, sorry, by the phone. the audit can, they can motive for it is believe against the united states, because despite of all the rhetoric, europe is not them independent. gym, political play. europe is modest, significant. mueller, for player, is the them, the, all the united states, militarily and politically and economic color udall does not wants to accelerate the 3 the war against the united states. the world is extremely afraid of the us

pullout, uh from uh, from europe and undermining the need to audit, go 5 commitments. so they are dependent on the united states. and they want to, of course, some reconciliation with the trump administration and look at the materials and star motors visits to the washing done. but at the same time, of course, they try to use dollar problem also as the significant other you know, together with raso which uh, consolidates the european union. let me try to mention that to your opinions and not independent players. and to illustrate that point, i want to bring up some of the data on the structure of the trans atlantic relation to this point of time. the united states provides roughly 70 percent of native financial budgeting around 80 percent of its weaponry. more than 80 percent of its intelligence and reconnaissance capacity is about 70 percent of its uh, an ear and

a bmw desantis on the list goes on. i mean, this is a highly skewed and very dependent relationship for the europeans. what i don't understand is why they think it's a good idea to try to solve it. by writing dismissive posts about donald trump, they not absolutely dependent on the united states and the force of the term of the united states towards the pacific. you know, the conflict, they secured through the coupling idea a logical decoupling between the united states and europe and undermining of the atlantic community. he's existential threat to the current to the caught on q repeating alludes but, and so this is why they try to somehow remedy this situation by similar pania slate . the problem pretty break in place of the defense spending of the integration of the european union. but at the same time, combining it with, you know,

maintaining both corporation when do 9 and stage in the corporate the way through this through trying to, you know, engaged from disrupt, the us. what are some negotiations by bringing some new repeal ideas. and then he said this really aimed at this about some multi spot, this props and them can to make some of, of the war i and so on and so forth. ultimately, the principal wants to all, to leave the problem. you know, they understand that uh, this is the last presidential term on the top administration. they understand that next year they will be need term elections in the us congress and quite likely it trump will become more a street in his behavior. democrats establish control over one of the good chambers of the congress. so they want to, uh, wait for a kind of this uh for, for also for this situation as well. um, no, sir,

that is successful. started here, but i guess we will see you in the next couple of months, which has been great pleasure talking to thank you very much for your time. thank you. my pleasure and thank you for watching hope is here again on walter part. the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00] the, if you think about a russia, what does your mind picture the bottom landscapes open up the fully lines the water one does. you imagine the,

the discounts dodge the journey? the, are you ready to come along the breaking news on our t for my remaining on the left side in front runner. coming to jessica, who was bod, from the presidential rewards following the announcement of december's vote of the odd t. you can pay that has taken to social media, expecting his country. he's on the road to writing for test as class with police after desk, who is supposed to speak to the streets of book arrest. paragraph is deployed as romanians expressed outrage of the decisions and hundreds of people are reported. cuban syria one describe that my specifications carried out by the