to take a fresh look around his life kaleidoscope, it gives him just a shepherd, reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions fixtures, design to simplify. it will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few. fractured images presented as fast? can you see through their illusion going underground, can the hello and welcome to world to part know you'll market, deliver the goods mine your looks and manners and leave the motions of the door.

has of all of them is the landscape relied on those tips from the are the deals the now historic stab in the oval office may have resulted in something more amicable. the ukranian president shows a different tactic. one also favored by donald trump. never had made any mistakes and repeating the same thing over and over again. what is between the 2 presidents and their respective countries like to discuss with them now and joined by demetrius 1st left deputy director of the center for comprehensive in your opinion and international studies of the higher school of economics. in most call me trans . good to see you again. thank you very much for your time. my pleasure. great to see you too. now i'm sure like most of us um you found the exchange and the oval office for the draw dropping. uh what are the main takeaways uh for you from uh, from thats path oh my main take away is that the trump administration is really

committed to ending the war as quickly as possible. they perceive the ukraine more as a winnable and as a distraction which prevents the united states from focusing on really important and strategic issues. and the 2nd take away is that from doesn't consider ukraine as a counterpart and as a decision maker, and as an actor, you great ukrainian life support defense 100 percent of on the west. i and uh, even despite this live support ukraine, that gives me using the war. this is why it's willing to try. ukraine can log cab sold i pm. ukraine can both have any objections to what the united states propose is. the job of ukraine is to great, fully accept anything which is offered by the united states and best speed you'll be bringing the rejects, the best offer. well, them that i'm here. we know from numerous american officials saying it bible lead

that the americans side went out of its way to accommodate the ukrainians. and i've heard the number of officials say that the ukraine inside was pretty demanding. in organizing this meeting, they insisted on top meetings, the landscape, the more kids on the meetings taking place in the oval office. and the white house applies to all of that until it went to your how fire. what do you think the premium objective was for coming into the white house and, you know, having the kind of meeting that they have? well, i think the major you, great in the objective was to convince donald trump to become jo by them. basically to return to the pool is since they've been previous administration as a part of your brain writing blank checks, you know, and basically promote ukrainian loyalty. when you bring and say landscape, check the course. i mean, on the, i don't think that they fully point site drives to convince the trump administration to promote the landscape objectives. lots of just,

they've sold the united states and they say now is the landscape put a lot of emphasis on the quote unquote security guarantees. and this is where trump was this the most, what do you think the ukrainians were trying to get under the somewhat obscure and formal term? so 1st continuation of mueller 3 days without any preconditions in depth. and that's the continuation of the mueller 38, ideally next time, some of the me a little bit of aid and commitment of the front, but ministration to write new blank checks off to the biden's. a bunch of explore this 2nd blaze commitment of the united states to go into war, direct war against strasser starting start the cold war. uh, you know, the, uh, the peace agreement somehow. uh, you know, it is not uh, kept by and by a, by all the sites and of course uh, this was the complete plan,

acceptable for the trunk, the white house. now do you own me a time or one of the most prominent american fullest i, scholars who, you know, very well suggested in one of his recent interviews that the ukrainians were essentially trying to buy the us as military commitment and presence in ukraine with i have 500000000000 worth of rare earth minerals. and he said that the article for all that mineral deal provided for quote, common protection of critical resources. as an indirect way of tying the americans to your plan. and trump didn't want to be entangled in such a way. what's your take on that? do you find it plausible? well, i think that the trump administration made it very clear that they want money from ukraine. they, once this is hypothetical, 5 convert $1000000000.00 for the military aid, which can be level already provided. not for the future me with the rate aid and of course not for any sorts of commitments that ukrainian one from the united states.

you know, the promptly ministration wants to avoid commitments in terms of meal, at the support of ukraine in terms of security. get this to the future. i think trump is very clear that this is the job for the repeating some how to handle it. she doesn't want to die either united states to you great in the military sense. and she doesn't, wants to day the publications which will the day they start off the b switch drop once the a a and b, the risk direct. camille, with the clash between the united states and brussel, we stop old bessler wants to avoid. now a popular take here in russia is that it was a sort of neo colonial deal designed by the americans to extract ukraine's menial resources. but if professor mirrors hymer is right and the abuse, savanski was essentially trying to coax trump into committing to defending ukraine . one that'd be bringing to embrace and i mean, what does that mean?

does the landscapes trying to beat the trunk of his own game? absolutely, you know, uh is it ask you wanted to be more prompt them prompt himself. you know, uh, 1st big bores. uh, actually there was from adults that zelinski pass those uh, mineral resources. you know, uh most likely is the last you wanted to trade in uh to the trump administration. nothing in exchange for clea, a commitment to the united states in terms of defending your b. m. in terms of providing, i can definitely meet with the assistance you have. of course you failed him in doing that because the drum uh, made it very clear that these money is necessary for the meal. a great aid which said being the already provided by the, by the administrator. but uh if i, uh, take this uh, 2nd part of the deal, the ukrainians trying to get the americans in under false pretences. i mean,

i don't understand what is it like you was counting on because the main problem is with this conflict and russian made it very clear is to prevent the american presence in ukraine. that was the reason why the crumbling launch this operation. what do you think the calculation was that the kremlin would say ok, just because it's donald trump, we are going to roll out the red carpet for the american troops. i mean, what was he counting on? well, i think it was counting on continuation of the war. you know, of course, it is absolutely clear that for us, right. any military price on a new west, the military presence in ukraine is unacceptable. be american or european. but precisely for basic reason, as any ask you want as the commitment of american troops. and now she wants the commitment the pin troops before it is it ask you as understand the state empower is depending on the continuation of the war. as soon as the war ends, the ask you will be out your wants to avoid that,

despite the fact that investment is contamination of the war and the day with the bloom resolved into the ultimate destruction and defeat the cream for the landscape . the, in the meantime, attempting to a, some of the war is the means for his own personal, political and physical survival. and he wants to pro long it as long as possible. now much has been a already sad about the ukrainian leadership ability to assess the basic reality on its own relative place. and if do you seeing these, the very public spot and they all little office is likely to sober uh, is it does advance gives emissions a bit, or is it even possible at this point of time? well, it's hard to answer this question because an ascii is most sober, right? as we all know that he is a drug user, right them, they distort mind and psychology it, however, of the mattress old and the white color is the most real. a very striking in terms

of colorado, it is changed because they ask you was used to be handle like the new charge. so you know, like dad and against a bully. all right. but they, the representative for the front line country of the free world, fighting against the global ego. and she was, she was presented like that form for 3 years by the, by the west. and now instead that she is 3 bit like him, usually cheetham of adventurous leader, who, the month, something with our phone cards in kids, kansas prompt products are risking their night as they center the world, little 3. right? and so he was leading into the, into the reality of course, the shopping use for is it asking, i can try to bump and say that by the europeans. and psychologically, i think you're being scouts in a beat, but most profoundly because the other piece cannot afford also decided to live with

video against the united states. so they also convinced him, you know, to, to, sol, solved flexibility. it is, i mean, i know you mentioned psychology and i say ukraine is a very vivid example of a nation living in the make believe world or me to put a differently, a nation having a collective psychotic outbreak. i mean, you can see that not only in the boyish behavior of leadership, but also in how it's intelligence services or military services are operating in the hype. uh, that is still maintained in the, in the media. do you see the landscape as the crux of the problem here, or is he just the tip of the iceberg? and if he alters his poster, or if even if he leaves office, do you think it's likely to change the way ukraine projects itself as a nation? it means that the russia or it's other partners in the europe, in america and around the world. oh, you are so good, right? if your brain lives in the bubble mugs the landscape is a very,

a symbolic representative of this bubble. you know, the video collapses personally, then it will be the beginning of the go collapse of the bubble in general. yes, of course. are, you know, a, he is the peak of the iceberg. and the society in which least other strong propaganda under no freedom of speech, you know, in condition terms of a sense of sip and persecution, of political arrivals and so on and so forth. control ability of all the aspects of political life, no elections and so on and so forth. or, of course this is going to be contrary um uh, box uh the uh, collapse of the symbol of that sort of the country. namely president or, you know, is it asking uh will be the beginning volvic raise your transformation, which will be fucking for the ukranian society, you know,

as well as 1945. so looking for you on hold for the german nation. right. and they were also, i mean they were leaving on the see know what conditions up until may 1945 be leaving into the ultimate victory or fluid or you know, up until the very end. but then eventually it won't collapse so well uh, i think that's the ukrainian so the great him, the society is heading toward so similar future. but make sure this is on the country as you put it is right on our water. and many of us do have relatives to the end of the country. i'm in the account of cod, the personal ties completely. and that's a pretty serious question for russia. how it should um, not necessarily even bill its relationship with ukraine, but deal with ukraine in the state that it is right now regardless of whether there is any peace deal um, you know, produced by donald trump or not what's,

what's your answer to that? well, i think this is precisely why girlfriend did awesome the government is so much talking about the right. so the rice, i'm speaking the rice of the russian language and restoration of normal conditions in the upgrade. you know, rush raise concerns, not just about the middle of the aspects of security and not just about neutral status. so few green mold just about the militarization and the limits on the cranium. we looked at all relations with the west on contrast, and we'll just move the appointment, both groups, but also certain normalization of domestic life. i the ukraine because of the ukrainians to remain our brother country. i won't brother and nation with innumerable number of either side, a links right where a relative to the links you're absolutely right. we are not indifferent towards these people. right? then we want them to return to normalcy. mm hm. okay. well, mr. we have to take

a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few minutes. stay tuned. the welcome back to worlds of parts with mixers. so sort of deputy director of the center for comprehensive european and international studies at the higher school of economics in moscow, mitre, i don't know if you would agree with me, but i think one of the most refreshing and perhaps of in promising change is coming out of washington is the current leadership approach to diplomacy, both secretary of state through bureau, otherwise present bands keep referencing diplomacy. one a one. this is a freshman course that is taught at american university is and where students are told that in order to engage in any interest a dialogue,

one needs to approach the other side with the civility and respect. and the, you know, try to understand what the position of the other side. and i think also in his deal in his book rather the art of the deal. donald trump wrote extensively about investing in a relationship and a business relationship and also call to maintain. i'm basing your reputation on the power on the solidity of your owns worth. and i wonder if this change is just rhetorical and or do you think you've made before real. that diplomacy, once again, is given, you know, their respective, deserves as a profession, as a message through which the nations communicate and engage with one another, o x on. i think that the united states is compelled to return to diplomacy in a real sense, a diploma. say as an instrument of communication, most, some kind of reward or ex we've that element overlay some,

some on like minded countries as well as the case for the uh for the previous administration. and the reason is, the reason behind that is that the united states fails. it fails to defeat process, inflict strategic defeat on russia. there's a lot of states fails. in cmo pena's company confrontation against a several great powers, altogether roster. china, you're on north korea altogether, by the end of the order to get out of that situation, which the united states loses. the needs to return to normal, to normal diplomacy as an instrument of communication mode just among friends and like minded congress. but also among at 1st service among mazda great powers. now i'm moving, of course it, while recognizing the existence of the interests of the other side. right. and this

is one of the trumpet ministration is doing. but again, let me say this is not because they sincerely wanted to do this. they are come pout to do this because of the failure, a complete failure of their previous bullets. now your role recently and that while this change of tone in biological exchange has been most kind of washington is welcome. it should not serve as a reason for your, for you and because russian but united states still remain competitors and are heard a number of your colleagues saying that she definitely isn't it. that's still the case. so we're still competing in many areas, but we also leave in the very paradoxical time when the interest national interest of russian, the united states happened to be aligned, they are not shared, that not overlapping, but they just happen to be aligned. do you agree with that? absolutely, you know, while remaining strategic competitors,

we are both. we both benefit from the assumption of corporation from selective corporation from ending the call either more uh we exist to defend russian and united states for more than for more than 3 years and for ending the confrontation . rise of the united states is interested in ending confront, based on with the restaurant before they have all the priorities because they fail uh to defeat the washer. and now they wants to normalize relations with russia in order to escape the war, which they can both whim and focus their channel. their priority is on more strategically important things such as competition against against china. ross is also interested in the standings and confrontation with the united states for a bulk ovaries rights to finish you. graham war on our terms of 24,

to to, to establish new moves of the game in the european security stablish limits. bully geopolitical expands. some of the west to reduce sanctions, right? if we come to the of the question of a reduction of sanctions and there are several concrete topics in the world be the bottom state, be the uranium nuclear program or strategic stability where we both benefit from corporate right now. uh, both puts in trump a like to put emphasis on common sense um, in your science uh common sense is a very interesting phenomenon. first of all, it's notably miss and people with the citizens gets a frantic and alter sticks tendencies. and also in many ways, it's a mark of cognitive health and a balance embodied live. and i think we've all been missing dot and international politics. i'm skeptical of even asking this question, but do you think common sense jenny,

and common sense would be brought back into global affairs? well i, i hope so. you know, the arrival of the trump administration, which does smoke have idea a lot. you go, there is 3 pay day, a logical limitations. creates recommendations for common sense. also common sense usually re emerges. when you say, right, uh, again, uh, the united states was big. are they the, the us previous fullest and was based on the move from the bank of the paper off, instead of a maintaining normal relations with brush. now there are no longer a carrying this illusion because you know, they fails to the feed rush and we looked at earlier, they failed process and did the process, the disease ross, economically they fails to isolating process in the, in the world. they understand the short inches and limitations of american the result is and because of capability is they understand that they need to re focus

them and channel them in a more natural sense, while sacrificing to something a mess as of yet. so these 3 really creates, but it can do some sort of data revival of common sense. now, while the americans have uh, seem to come to terms with that limitations, the european partners seem to be holding a competition for the most belligerent on asked is that with either about why demand put in and rational or about donor trump in the united states? and where do you think all of these leaves our european neighbors? well, uh, unfortunately, uh, you know, utilizing a very difficult situation and we are doing the full continuation of consolidation . we'll see you at the in union a and collect if you would up i would say that's lunch for 2 reasons. first, but also for be a and kind of gone from based on the gain structure can really become a pillar of european integration. this is something that brings them together. this

is a they need to come from, takes on in order to keep the union together to spring from an integration for them even with the integration in border to confront process. so, you know, they use this confront based on with the process as a justification form uh, you know, increase of defense spending, deepening the, uh, security integration, defense integration, and so on and so forth. second, for a 2nd reason, you know, due the united states uh, the administration changed. and donald prom exclusively claims the depaula so, so the bite and administration warrant mistaken. the grains the beginning will be great and warranty is by those full ends in the ascii schools. but mainland, buying those for so the chain shall be administration, create the corporate community for the united states to start with different polls . and nothing changed. you know, we, we see the same people with the same lease. and of course, they cannot afford to recognize the bankruptcy of their previous boss. i because

they wouldn't be, you know, a job that's uh, you know, they would disappear. they, they, they, they, they would be what the weight. so they, uh they, they, they, they, uh, they are compelled to continue the same problem. i sent you, but i'm unable a human, although it is doomed to defend ms for it's one thing to call a lot of them have put an old way in heck it to if a name uh in the book. but it's another thing to do the same thing to donald trump and we see from, from the a reaction to is allowed to use the poster and that he didn't wait long to pull the carpet of military support from under the ukrainians. um, do you think he may do something of the kinds of the europeans? uh, is there actually a cost too old if you were a team grandstanding it possible cost? this is precisely why i said that you replacing the very difficult situation

because on the one hand of pores they tried to consolidate against donald trump, right? many of them to uh, exclusively describe donald trump as their adverse, sorry. but on the audit can, they cannot afford, uh, a believe against the united states. because despite of all the redirect, europe is not them independent. geopolitical play, europe is not a significant military player, is dependent on the united states militarily, politically and economically. europe does not wants to accelerate the 3 the war against the united states. the world is extremely afraid of the us pullout uh from uh, from europe and undermining the need to audit, go 5 commitments. so they not dependent on the united states. and they want to, of course, some reconciliation with the trump administration and look at the materials and star merits visits to the washing done by the same time. of course they

try to use dollar problem also as the significant other, you know, together with russia which uh, consolidates the european union. let me tell you mentioned that to your things and not independent players. and to illustrate that point, i want to bring up some of the data on the structure of the trans atlantic relation to this point of time. the united states provides roughly 70 percent of need his financial budgeting around 80 percent of with weaponry. more than 80 percent of its intelligence and requests its capacity, it's about 70 percent of its air and a bmw defense is on the list goes on. i mean, this is a highly skewed and very dependent relationship with the europeans. what i don't understand is why they think it's a good idea to try to salvage it. by writing dismissive posts about donald trump.

is they not absolutely dependent on the united states? it's on the force of the term of the united states towards the pacific. you know, the conflict, the security, the coupling idea, a logical decoupling between the united states and europe, and undermining of the atlantic community. he's existential threat to the current to the economy. you repeat the eludes but, and so this is why they try to somehow remedy this situation by similar pena slay, down side problem. pretty great. increase of the defense spending and the integration of the european union. but at the same time, combining it with, you know, maintaining both corporation when do 9 and stage in the corporate or the way through this through trying to, you know, engaged from disrupt, the us. there are some, uh, negotiations by bringing some new rep in the ideas and then he said this 3 year

waiting at this thoughtful, multi spot, this proximal continuation of, of the war i and so on and so forth. ultimately, the principal wants to all to leave throw, you know, they understand that. uh, this is the last presidential term, all the top administration. they understand that next year they will be mid term elections in the us congress. and quite likely, a trump will become more street in his behavior if democrats establish control over one of the good chambers of the congress. so they want to uh, wave for kind of this uh, full, full, full full full the situation. well, um no, sir, that is successful started here, but i guess we will see in the next couple of months, which has been great pleasure talking to thank you very much for your time. thank you. my pleasure and thank you for watching hope is here again on walter part the,

[000:00:00;00] the,

[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the, the buddy, welcome back to the most. go mules on shay bowes, and i've joined yet again by oregon. this and we've given all the a busy week this week, you know, look, there's only one game in town again this week. and of course, at a, her zalinski the knack of your is front and center, the big dawn. still taking them away in the background. we don't know which way he's going to go. this is a unique thing about the great new american president,

you know, let's have