right, speaking of which left checking on, press this no smoke come on. messy, so massive joint financing will be decided to buy and produce on european soil ammunition tanks, weapons, and equipment, which is among the most innovative. i asked the government to be mobilized. people could so that on the one hand me, it strengthens our armies as quickly as possible. ask us it out of hand. on the other hand, he says it exhilarates the re industrialization in all our retailers, the europe of defense, which we have been defending for 8 years. the portion is therefore becoming a reality real help through the defaults. sounds like someone has a napoleon, cost play hat on just maybe a smidge to type, but hey, it's worth a shot right. francis been i a defense spending boost for awhile now because nothing says sophisticated economic strategy like cranking out positive missiles. and now they seem to even have an excuse to spend all of that tax task on their very own military. industrial complex is now without having to share it with trumps

americans defense industry because, well trumps of brian. now, with his focus on trying to make peace with the french manufacturing about is 3, is about get left out in the rain, declining output, slightest new orders, and job type. so slight my 3 writers points to skyrocketing energy prices, fuel costs and raw materials. as the culprits, but hey, at least taking it to cruising by messing with those things. that's totally definitely works right. anyway. guess what? all this talk is already sent. defense stocks through the roof. germany's ryan metal up 14 percent. 15 percent for francis talis, and it will easily and ardo be systems 14 percent solved 11 percent because a nothing says safety and security like a bunch of investors and establishment cronies, getting pretty pretty rich. the u has found its new favorite budget category. it seems germany known for pension pennies, like grandma and a flea market, has suddenly discovered that a, hey, it's

a so bad when it buys fighter jets or tags and france might be coming for your piggyback. so sweet, tight europe, and remember every year. oh, you save one day, maybe the and miss. all right, to rep, finality or analogy international. get that rachel wrapping up this hours program. but we're back soon with so much more because what about top stories are updating by the moment? back to you and precisely? 26. the

welcome to cross the bull horns. were all things we considered on peter lavelle. trump is paused military aid and intelligence for ukraine is also threatened russia with new sanctions. furthermore, is the you really considering a new arms race? is it preparing for war against russia? does anyone take the european seriously any more to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess door to send me while we in budapest. he's a pod cast with a goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow, we have marks level that he is an international relations and security analyst, originally across stock roles in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated pro start out with mark here in moscow. it's been a very, it's a multi was week. we have the trump administration, at least according to media reports and some members of the administration that was military and intelligence support for ukraine has been cut off on a, or at least almost all of it. so to is the same time um, uh,

president trump is threatened russia with more sanctions, which is kind of hard to believe after 16 rounds of sanctions. it's difficult to determine where else he could possibly go. is this all part of the negotiating strategy and is this message when it comes to military aid to ukraine and intelligence? do you agree? is this an equal message to the europeans and not necessarily the russians go ahead, mark. yeah, i think that's the primary in time to of what we've seen is trump wants to uh, force russia and the camry team and ukraine into negotiations. he has promised through his domestic public and the world that he is going to bring peace. so he's using what leverage he has to force both sides, which must be said, are not interested in peace negotiations, neither one of them except on their own terms, not as things are on the battlefield right now. and he's using what leverage he has

with the cambridge human use ukraine. that leverage is immense. it is the majority of the military and financial support that props up the regime. and the intelligence is, is something, uh, the, you know, the satellite that, uh, the signals intelligence is always severely underestimated the importance that has had, in propping up the cambridge him on the battlefield for the last 3 years with russia. that leverage is very little. he's made vague for threats about sanctions and terrorists. i don't know exactly what he would place and there's not a substantial amount of view as russian trade at the moment, except i'm in uranium that the us and for in fertilizer utilize those. yeah. so that doesn't make any sense, and i think he just likes the word terrorist, i just he, he problem a mark, staying with it with you. i mean, they, they,

one of the shiny little objects that's always presented in front of the russians from the west is sanction relief. and even that doesn't really have a lot of traction when it comes to russia. no, and in fact, that's kind of the contradiction or, or maybe it is an attempt, a clumsy attempt, i would say that a carrot and stick approach. we can either ease the sanctions. right. and there, obviously the trump administration has put forward to the treasury department, look and see what sanctions we can get rid of quickly and easily. and at the same time is making vague statements about sanctions and not because of the match sanctions after the $24000.00 that russia has is the one that will make their economy shrink and fail it it's, it's very for leverage. and i don't think actually they're making threats like this at this point. and then it goes to asians is going to win him favors. uh, you know, uh, in negotiations with dropbox, they don't feel they are in

a place. they're not worried about sanctions. the removal of sanctions is not their priority. that's right, because the russian economy is doing more or less pretty good. in fact, it's growing at a faster rate than the us and european well and, and then the, you and i both live here. it's a, it's a, it's burning on all cylinders. i mean, the economies overheating. i mean, there's so much activity and so much money in the economy. now, george, meanwhile, meanwhile i'm, there is a, it's being kind of pitched as us us ukraine summit. and in re, i mean a remarkable how things change so quickly. i mean i, i just thought it was a quick zooming call and partner is more working together now. it's like, oh, we'll have a separate venue. we'll have a, a, a cafeteria monitor there, and all that, i mean, the tone of it is changing a lot. okay. so, why could possibly be cited states and ukraine actually talked about that it hasn't

been publicly talked about in the oval office, george a. well, i think probably what will happen in the saudi arabia is that they will sign this economic uh, extraction agreement. clearly this is what mike wall to mario rubio said, well that the, the ukrainians have now come around and we're gonna sign this uh, agreement. the problem um is of course, that, um, you know, way where, where do you go from there? you know, trump when he 1st announces or in his a sense of the a, a cruise, but declaring that, oh, we're going to email over russia. he's pounding ukraine. and we're going to impose sanctions and tires, and then 2 hours later he has a news conference um its the oval office and he says, one of the things is that things are going well. you know what i'm getting on very well with the russians. they seem very agreeable and in fact i'm having

difficulties with the ukrainians. so and then on, on the issue what he was asked repeatedly about. but what about this pounding you, you were complaining earlier by the pounding ukraine there while a. yeah, that was all, you know, any, anybody would do the same thing in the shoes. so the question that is, okay, so at least sign this economic extraction rianne and then what? and then what exactly trump says all at the ties to the ukraine. because the landscape said no, that doesn't tell you it's all, you know, we, we want these, um, uh, security guarantees. trump isn't prepared to issue the security guarantee is. and then again, other thing, but monica alluded to this a real problem. well, what, what do you mean to negotiate about russia clearly will not accept the spot that's . that's what been talking about the way that it was on trump, like the talking about the seats. why wouldn't get us these bar russell will not

accept the seatbar the ukraine without except to see so i because we are good for ukraine that would meeting century eating 20 percent of the territory. no ukrainian leader can survive physically even survive by agreeing to assist eating 20 percent the 3rd or so. then you go to the question of what, what was trump do then, you know, down now that you know he's got all these negotiations and then boom, there's no the, there's no agreements on anything. so i think that's something when it's gonna be very difficult to figure out, because trump is all over the place, which way he's going to go with you know, who, who will he try to pressure in order to get somewhere? i think we're in the minority in this space in believing that this is far from over . okay. unfortunately, as far from over mark google, the silver bullet for the russian side to resolve this issue is its security guarantees. and that is something that still not part of the conversation though i

will present that. i think it's very important. is it? what went wrong? it is stem bull. what went wrong with the men sca corey? you know, way, for most people, a few weeks ago, fewer mentioned either one of them. they wouldn't have any idea of what you're talking about now. it's making it into the public conversation, which i think is progress on. i think it's going to reveal the fraud that the west of i committed against the ukraine and russian the brought this about. so when is rushes for needs going to be addressed mark, because that's what it needs to be done to have this to be resolved. and we're not there yet. yeah, i mean, we're already, but anywhere close, i mean, not even close negotiations on ukraine. you know, even between the us and russia, much less between russia and the cameras, you mean you can haven't even be got right. but, but there is a continual echo chamber where western leaders, uh, sometimes with each other. sometimes in the, you know, the publics,

we are yelling at each other are talking about things completely look like the ceasefire and nato troops on the ground in ukraine and no fly zones. and other nonsense that is only actually encouraging russia to have no interest whatsoever in any type, not only of a ceasefire, but of ending the conflict in a settlement whatsoever. and that might be part of the, the european strategy here. so a, but i think actually the most interesting thing that's happening and re odd is not what they're talking about. i mean, i don't know whether this minerals deal is going to be resuscitated or not the year . the at the americans viewed that as a type of security guarantee, the only one they were going to give the ukrainians, but it would only have any effect if there actually was a peace settlement so that they were talking about as that as part of their test

well, i mean, martin did the whole minerals deal, quote, unquote, because it involves more than that. it's just a slight of hand. and i don't know, those are the security here in the air. i mean, that's what it is. it's a political gesture on both sides as far as i'm concerned. but it's interesting that they're meeting and re odd. not in washington, not in ukraine, not in europe. right, and zalinski is not there. they're obviously attempting to isolate the cambridge team representatives from the europeans, from the democrats and neo cons in the us who might be sympathetic for them. they're also trying to get them to get serious. so put them in a psychological space where this is real negotiations. this is not a friendly meeting, right. it's, it's very interesting the choice of venue and that zalinski whom they've obviously decided with this someone that no one can possibly work with. in fact,

we also had confirmation during the week the us is talking to patel and show replacements for the wednesday, which is probably also part of their pressure campaign. and they are considering tim, a shank gold of the former prime minister, all a guard gas princess eclipse. gold, the mayor of key and possibly even carrillo. i liked the dark blue don off the social cost a key originally was military intelligence chief. well, i mean the thing to let me throw that to, to, to george here. i mean, it is just just a, a pressure program here, bro. impression tactic here. that slowly but surely isolating zelinski because in the 2nd part of the problem, we're going to talk about anything but i solution for zalinski will talk about your a. but is this the, the, the american gambit here? it was possible that it seems very strange because the people of that's all included like to machine co borrower shane co. uh, you know yesterday's metal for women and you know the day before yesterday's man or

women. i mean, they may not in any way plausible uh, time that it says replacements uh for the dirt. doesn't that speak of the, the lack of the democratic norms in ukraine? there's no alternative to a zalinski. i mean, that's by design, isn't it? yeah, i think so. know that there's no, there is no mechanism to replace him. other than of you in some kind of a cool, i mean they could always arrange some because i'm cool. and so i'm going to take, so there's a things or the other one, the other to the. but there's a danger by the cool is that the whole place could just disintegrate. i mean, the americans have a lot of experience when they organize, clothes like one against. and golding, d. m, is all the place just disintegrated. and that just stuck them in the yards. we all know we all know with the best, the plans that always ends up in disaster. why the powers that be can recognize that as another is topic. right? gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break,

and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion of some we'll need to stay with our to the, the, the,

the, the welcome that's across like bull horns were all things are considered. i'm funeral about command. you were discussing some real news, you know, mark the 2nd half for the program, because i wanted to keep a clear and differentiation between what trump and his people are trying to do and what those wacky wacky europeans are trying to do here. i mean, this is, this is a bad, it's even just bad theater. we're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars. it could be invested in, you know, work with corinne, the ukraine now and forever. nothing about ukraine without us. i mean, these are all old slogans and it hasn't helped you grain at all. as matter of fact, it's only hurt you clean on the battlefield here. can you explain this is it is just as kabuki theater or is this a self help group? these people i, i, george, and i've talked to one of the great, like i have no real intelligent. the answer to what they're doing,

go ahead or okay. so the european leaders had a, another all emergency use summit during the week, which political was billing as the e. you're more summit. that's, this was the war summit. they're getting ready for war work or, or against the war oregon's trump. for our good. i thought i thought the whole thing was about piece, where would we want? no, no, no, no. your parents have no interest in peace whatsoever. in fact, the only one who has any interest in peace right now on as, as things stand is trump. and then that, that has to be said, but the europeans are perhaps, you know, one of the furthest away and that there was panic. there is desperation, and there is more outrage, right? there is moral outrage against the united states. there's moral outrage that russia is daring to win this conflict that increasingly they're having to admit it.

they're admitting that their own militaries are decrepit and deteriorated and that their stockpiles are empty. hence the need to rebuild europe's military, industrial complex they, they, they make grandiose. 1 say, well mark, i mean, speaking of the, i'm in a military industrial complex in your that, that, that can be figured out and, and wrapped up by september this year, or maybe 10 years from september. yeah. the 10 years and here's the problem. the european military industrial complex is the, you know, in 20 some different scattered little parts. so however much money they throw into it, it will never have the of scale production that countries like russia and china and the united states, that they'll never be a military great power. and this 850000000000 euros is supposed to magically come out of where that of course, they want to go even further into that. then they already are. it's not going to happen. it's not going to happen. they're not going to get the money. it's not

going to happen on the scale daily they think and, and it certainly won't have the military effectiveness, what's more, the europeans are not a military orientated populations. now they don't have the will to fight for europe. jill political interests why there, whether on europe borders or in africa or anywhere, it was because it was appear in countries are having problems with military recruitment. but that was the americans job. right. george? that's what the americans were supposed to do for them. george, you know, this pastoring is it is, it's, it's, it would become the cold war. and so i'd try because people are young. men are dying in russians and ukraine's are dying and you crate in this more. we all want it to come to an end. but what is for me, the europeans, they, they can, they can not filed them, they can't imagine that russia could win win against them. of course,

i think that could be the issue of re key. the ukraine is phenomenal to all of this here. it's just that you're, are, they, they believe so much of their own propaganda about themselves. is the garden of humanity, almost infallible. they're almost kind of like, you know, is the communist party of the soviet union circuit. 1968. you know, i mean it's more loss of faith than themselves. they've never liked the americans. they are they hagley, they, they, they, they have no respect for the americans because they know the americans have no respect with them. there's no love lost to you, right? irrespective all the nonsense you are about the transatlantic relationship, george, while the hysteria that would be subjected to right now is very familiar to anyone who has followed european politics over the decades. because, you know, anything has been true of this transatlantic alliance for the us. the 75 years is that there is this picture of the session on the part of the europeans that they

will be abandoned by the americans. that was, are they gonna band them? is they don't care about those. they have the security guarantees that was listed. i mean, you know, if he is just, let's go back to the time of the 1960 is there was a gained up session all the of the americans and i'll get to sacrifice new york and boston for the sold over and bumps and the americans is exasperated way deployed the jupiter missiles in italy and taught, okay, which of course led to the cuban missile crisis. so this is, and then of course, in the $819.00 easiest when they deployed the euro. besides, i guess, the only reason the americans did that is of the europeans kept whining to them about how, how panic they are about the russians. so, so this isn't and there's nothing new about that. believe this, the strange thing is about this, of this current issue with ukraine is that this was an american project. the americans were the ones who initially pushed this, they have, they, they wanted this ukraine, they wanted to bludgeon ukraine against the nato. and it was the, the french a all,

i think, you know, as that goes the other time. and then i, i'm going to michael, who are kind of hesitant about this not, i don't think is a good idea is no going to be no gonna end well. and you know, the americans have to temper their, their and susie as them. and this went on in the gain of all, even of the 2014, it was the americans took it, pushing this and then the southerly to europe and adopted this policy as their own . they, they became preoccupied with it. and then when there was a change in the administration, they were left holding the bag. you know, there's a well, now you know, the bad bad ones now pushing the policy that they themselves, you know, rightly we're a little skeptical though, because they're the ones that the lives and the other ones have to live with the russians. they're the ones that are dependent on cheap, rational energy, but now they've embrace them. we don't care by russian energy. we don't care by they, they will. all we care about is ukraine. yeah, well mark, you know, i mean obviously, i mean i might get a strongly attack presenting this, but i mean,

you know, as a landscape feels betrayed. well, of course he feels for joy. he believe them by or the europeans feel betrayed. yeah, because they believe them are a tail politics is not about how do you feel like geo politics is relative strength to your adversaries and competitors? i mean, these are the name, the rhetoric is coming out of your place. just juvenile. okay, what did you expect to happen? you gave all your leverage away and you're going to be betrayed. i mean, shame on you. that's how i look at it more. yeah. whether or, or it's talking about the regime in q ever, the europeans, they, they, none of these wouldn't be proxies of the united states ever seem to learn the historical record that you know, the cards. the ask in a national government that the us form there, that the, via the music, the have never learned the less than the, of how the us disposes of it's proxies when there is political change in washington or where they give up on the sun cost fallacy. of,

of whatever conflict that they are engaged in. and it seems that the europeans at this point are more ideal logically committed to the continuance of us wed global hegemony. and this conflict in ukraine is part of it then. well, certainly more than the current american administration is we had my crown during this week say that there would only be peace in europe, that it was in france would only be safe from russia if russia was pacified, pacified by you and what army, right. you, you kept the feet russia in ukraine, even with the americans fighting beside you. you were losing, now you want to go it alone. i mean, this is just the fantasy land and it is only going to take, you know, of course there, the ultimate, really, they're trying to draw the us back into the confidence that is the ultimate goal of, of everything they're doing. and they are trying to continue it to the best of

their ability. they are trying to boil what trump is trying to do, and that is making him furious at the european leaders, which is going to cause more and more damage to the vaunted transatlantic relationship. you know, george denmark, denmark's prime minister frederickson. meanwhile sidebar, trump is going to steal greenland by the, you know, the, the prime, the prime ministers focus is obviously some warehouse piece in ukraine is more dangerous than the ongoing war. i mean you're, you're, you're basically attacked by your patron taking greenland away from you and me, it's but, but the, the, all the, and the ongoing more is better than piece. what are these people smoking? i mean, i'm sorry, how do you interpret something like that? it is just completely nuts and it goes, denmark is a joke. i mean,

it's nowhere near a ukraine. it doesn't have any um, forces to speak of. so anyone can posture and you know, beat the chest in, in, in the belligerents when they don't actually have to sacrifice anything. but as the question what the europeans are now trying to do is to, you know, for any possibility of a, of a peace agreement. and this is, i mean, it used to be the americans used to do this kind of thing when the europeans, a diplomatic initiatives such as in, in boston and opposite goldman and obviously europe. and what can we do? this will do all this a little, you know, with everything that they're doing now is in response to the trunk. you know, suggesting that hey, with a piece agreements might be better than the continuation of the war. and this is, if you know, for years and years and the european position was the same as the by the ministration position where we just go to continue the war. and you know, at some point, find voltage is going to come to the grocery. i think they will, so let's just keep this uh, well, i mean, also now towards george and market it's,

it's interesting if you look at the european press, i don't know if you're aware of this and particularly for you mark as you live here to the rushes almost in collab states right now, and then this is what we're in the atlantic a magazine. it's right that ukraine. that's winning the war of attrition. this just came out a couple days ago. i mean, you just, you just been tastic here. okay. yeah, i mean, it is so delusional is because they're ideologically possessed when you're ideologically possessed, you cannot, you cannot process real life, real time data mark. yeah, they, they are completely in a probably began to bubble of their own creation. this is absolute military nonsense. i mean it's, it's worse than nonsense and maybe they've convinced themselves that they actually believe it is this classic. i'm now already classic. russo frannie up on one hand.

they're screaming, that's all we need to build up, our powerful military's because the great russian bear is about to overrun ukraine and invade lisbon next week. and on the other hand, russia is a failure of a state and it's about the collapse. i mean it's, it's such as laughable scare mongering propaganda. and right now for europeans, the, the threat of russia innovating nato, which is in, i mean, 1st of all, never mind the nuclear strategic deterrence or anything like that. right? it, it completely is meant to obscure the real car. i'm sorry, i have to jump in gentlemen and we have a hard break here on the fascinating discussion. i want to thank my g as in budapest and here in moscow. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here, r t c. and next time, remember across the rules, the

the google point blank page emerging from syria as max execution. so taking the place across the nation as a new is limited regime of asked us is in broad daylight targeting religious minority government sources. and they were asking the people that i've seen, you know, in the costs that he was telling me what underway for me to try and send me this is in this he made us had a testimony as we speak with those things heading the atrocities as check points to setup in syria as an academic funds encompassing kids on the way. and finally, western leaders are reacting to them asked kit.