and they are very surprised them. they have to do this abuse because they know that if the re, jimmy is jane jean, they were all go to prison. for the most part, face was a peaceful protest. we donate small skirmishes, but not who came out unscathed. well, the crowd is getting smaller. in fact, we have seen people coming here as a her decision, the only to read your networks coming here. now to show the thing to investigate, that is the, the, the president over mania can appeal vision. and then the final decision will be made. so for many people who they already through their election was stolen from them when it was a nose by the constitutional in december showing that you receive a full things all the info. correct? interesting. so i noticed so 9,

let's say that western doctors will do anything to keep control over romania because together with poland, romania is the only other way into ukraine and romania, by the way, adjacent to the odessa coastal region, which is precisely where the u. k. and from so most interested in trying to control by for most of the we are breaking the main stream, narrative spaces archie into the the match sooners and see and welcome to going underground will cause single around the world from the heart of the middle east, where the disgrace dictator of ukraine zalinski is due today to meet crown prince

moment been selman inside your ravia. a previous scheduled meeting have to be cancelled. as donald trump made it clear that he was ending support for the proxy war on russia smocks by the us back to in 2014. so how much busy and hatred does the trump administration have visit lensky and his lackeys in london, paris, and brussels? perhaps we'll see if britain installer, in front of micro come to the wife has this week. and can we expect the usa to exit nato, focusing on new 21st century priorities? joining me from evans in north carolina was retentive guidelines, and he shot a veteran senior intelligence officer in the us army and defense intelligence agency, and former advisor on president trump tried to try to campaign to go shopping. thanks so much for coming back on the show. i understand that in the previous days it might have been the difficult for you to return to going underground. is this because of that to the bad old days of no freedom of speech when there is any blinking then secretary of state called at all to one of the platforms. this row goes out on a yeah, let it be clear other guys to be a regular on our to, you know,

i always felt a look at my job was to go out and be on media and talk about things, especially the think tank guy up if you can't communicate policy, you're not really doing policy, but that wasn't the case during the 5 years of the bible folks weren't doing policy . they were doing propaganda and i'll be, i'll just pick up on about it. so those of us who actually had to live within the communications fear and united states were literally, essentially told the moment you do something that's even marginally linked to russia. you're going to be essentially suspended or cancelled in any way that can get to. now i'm, i like being independent. i like being out there and doing things, but the problem is this. once you have the mechanisms of government, which the bottom folks did available to them, they can do things to cancel you and can get you off the radar. there was cancelled for the time before 11 must came back on x. so those,

those are the sort of things they would do to you to punish you. so i appreciate the fact that we now have a returned to free speech, which i think is important. everybody's going to affect on that. yeah, and i mean there were problems as well as regards the constitution because if the social media companies are themselves defense contract is the kind of agencies of government, in which case they are violating the 1st amends address constitution. i agree with that assessment. absolutely. yep. i looked before we even get to whether the us agency of nato, the lensky meeting in b as in re add our no, but i mean, that's the time that i'm doing this interview. he's still alive. how numbers are as days, i mean a, you don't for the, i'm going back to saudi arabia and meeting and be us anytime soon. i as well. i mean, the black you guys have been following me for awhile. i, you know, look, you've got a guy that was high hills and is paid to read scripts as the guy in charge of ukraine right now, and that's not a good luck. i believe that whatever happens,

it's not going to be the landscape zaleski is a pass through. i think you, he's speaking for the powers of the you. yeah. uh or did he rock after the failed meeting with trump? or did the right he ran into the arms literally of pure storm or, and 10 down the street. and then they had a count. i wore cap war cabinet meeting. i don't know what you want to call it. all the folks in the you got together and had this big old security meeting, the big to basically say, oh, we don't agree with president trump, so that's why zalinski went there. i think he's an extension of the you, at least that's what we watch. and at this point, i don't think i'm not speaking for the white house. i have not spoken to the white house about this. whatever i say is tony shapers opinion. i don't think anybody in present trumps cabinet is going to be willing to deal. ready the was the landscape because even now, what's the landscape of a post on ac saying?

oh i'm, i'm ready to negotiate. i didn't hear an apology and there anyway, just say so. yeah, you might have apologize and then taking back the apology by the time this goes out, obviously. but at the same time, i mean at the same time and you say it's worked with you, but also the u. k, cause it was done them or the british crime is a my prime minister. i understand that the british of being told not to share intelligence. and i know that's your expertise in the us army right? not to share intelligence with ukraine for saw. why should britain be trusted? and secondly, if you're looking at it from the british perspective, if i put my british unit jack had on, you know, you got your troops storming around my country, you've got your listening post weapons, and united states, the air force there. and who gives the ride for the americans to order us about how we share intelligence given to the go parliamentary vote being taken since the drug

administration is ordered. so i'm a to do this. yeah, i, uh, i appreciate the way you phrased all that. so let's start off by reminding people, and i love the u. k. i've spent a lot of time there. i've had a relationship with work university and coventry. and i've been in combat with the british military. but let's be honest. the british military today is essentially not much more than a money pie thought skit in the making. a could come on. you guys don't have you guys have cut the military budget. you've given all your tags to ukraine, and now we're talking about intelligence. a james bond data around and i think uh, i think uh at this point, united states, as we're looking all the issues relating to intel and sharing as the british are to us. i think there's a certain level of distrust because a, something called the russia collusion narrative, we've spoken about it

a little bit before. but what we've come to find now in greater detail and i think we're going to get more media and this is m i 6 was was nose deep. and helping set that up with the democrats. so i think uh and kirsten are speaking of politics that folks over to support kamala, here's not a good move. so i'm just saying, despite our 2 nations being in during partners, there's been some bad things happen between our, in our partnership. and i think the united states under trump, and to include the people my little tried, my tribe of intelligence officers, is support president trump. we're on agreement that we need to re look how we interact with, with the u. k. at the military intelligence level, based on what we've observed over the past 8 years, it's still not been cleared up. why it's against calmer before you went into politics. was meeting with m i a 6 year cause persecuted. julian, a son she before right, came into power and um, right. and

a given the my 6th role in trying to destroy the reputation of donald trump. i mean, i know you'd say that dollar trump is an amazing diplomat. i mean, he can, he knows storm is perhaps a direct role in this. and so you, lieutenant colonel chose the guy with the director of national intelligence. would know how storm uh, you know, helps him settles what would be involved in trying to subvert us democracy? no doubt, i think these people are all aware of in greater detail in idaho, by the way, i know quite a bit, but they know more and yeah, look, i was dealing with the british embassy during the 201782018 period. and it was very clear that there were issues regarding the british not quite being on board with president trump. that is to say that even after trump came into office, they were clearly supporting the effort uh to sub,

to basically support that the rush collusion, narrative. now, president trump is set as and i agree that he and he said this during the zalinski meeting, a back a, you know, last friday before last that, um that the, that quote and the russians took it on the chin as well as he did over there was a collusion thing? well, there's one organization and one nation kind of at the center of both issues and my 6th and the okay. and my 6 and the u. k took a very active role and helping support the might on revolution against the pro russian government and ukraine. and they continue that and my success can continue to be essentially supporting the elements opposed to donald trump. so it is what it is. i'm not saying anything that people can't verify here. i know people are going to get upset about it, but it's something that we have to. well, people don't know why, why,

why they trump the so come with never resolve it. how is it trump is so come in the oval office if it keeps it gets dom or perhaps a game later this week. how does he maintain being so calm with them? knowing what he clearly does about gustavo and the circle, deep state in britain and then what it tried to do. yeah. you know, it's a great question. i think um the one thing that's good about the for your apps is that is to say when he did not, when i think he won the 2020 election. i said this over and over. but since he did not get an audio rated in january of 2021. yes, for years to kind of think about what went wrong. and over that for years now look different grass call a grievance. i call it the, the account ability. you figured out how to bring accountability to the table. so remember, we're only 6 weeks in to a 4 year term. and i think you can afford to be generous in the presence of those

who are his enemies and not worry about it. and i think, i think there's more coming. i think there's some tricks. this is a, this is a poker game. and as, as, as present drugs, that was the last a lift gate has no cards. i don't know of care storm or has many more cards either, but we'll see how the game goes. but it's a poker game and we're worried about the 2nd hand of a full of a full game right now. so, very clearly, british soldiers in the field, in ukraine right now, right. and then my 6 in ukraine, helping someone say the nazis of east a new, great and helping as their lensky dictators or landscape stroke, right. what advice i just had as much i've said as much. i'm one of the shows, i guess. what advice would you give to those british soldiers in ukraine right now and the intelligence officials, they're presumably, i don't know, you'll have to tell me what do you think who are trying to sabotage trump's design piece? i think they were the m. i a 6 folks in the british troops there,

i think may be there on the belief. they're on the right side of history and they're not. i bought the cold war. we bought the sweet, we, we defeated, we beat the soviet. the cold war is done is time. we recognize that there's more to be had by finding a framework for all of eastern europe and the russians to work with western europe and a british. and by the way, one of the notable features of all this is that the, the, you add probably britain is never stop by and russia, russian or petroleum russian gas run it, russian or it's just goes to passers and gets more expensive. so nobody in europe is actually taking serious the idea of beating, putting, if you're paying him for his gas. so i think the people on the ground there need to look at why they're there and what exactly they're supposed to accomplish is there,

is there a work there for the greatest good? is this going to help save lives and bring peace? i that would be the 1st question i would ask myself if i were a british soldier or my 6th operative. secondly, um, what is the long term strategy? is this like president trump said to finish a warrant pocahontas last night? do you all want to keep this going 5 more years? is that it our interest? or is it time to stop the killing? and i'm of the school. what, what present trumpets, time. we really look at the look at what's going on and come on. this is 2025, and yet both sides are engaged in trench warfare. 1917 style trench warfare. and i don't think it's a good idea and i don't think it's going to benefit the you where you can't lock terms. so maybe the intelligence services and grape and bridge military needs to think about what that means for their future as well. the kind of kind of attorney chaper, i'll stop you that more from the veteran us intelligence official after the spring . the

look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except we're so shorter is a conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. the point obviously, is to create a trust rather than fit the area. i mean with the artificial intelligence we have so many with him in the a robot must protect his phone, existence was on the existing the

welcome back to going underground. i'm cecilia with the veteran senior intelligence officer in the us army and defense intelligence agency, lieutenant colonel engineer, drive a lieutenant colonel. you are talking about the be a tunnel war that it looks as if they're going to be in union and britain, one of a, these are leads when they came to out of touch with their own populations given the polling. but they idiots, or are they people who genuinely believe that russia ones too much down the shows and these and, and invade the london as well i, i think if you just look at it rational a look at what the russians are, are doing right now, just to maintain a trench warfare, think about this like mere putting everything they have into maintaining that war. so uh, are we to believe that they're going to be able to reestablish the 12 tank arbys

that base towards barrels in with, in world war 2 really are we're going to go from this kind of a bar morass is trench warfare to 1986. the full, the gap is that what we're, is that what we're really thinking about here because it's not rational. and all, by the way, i was trained as lieutenant to understand something called intelligence preparation of the battle space. we understood how to map out and determine the soviet troops strengths by sporadic and also often a incomplete reports. i can tell you, based on how we developed this methodology, we could figure out pretty quick if the russians wrap this up. they're not up to something just saying, but i think it's more about profit. 2 things happened this past week. first off, ursula vaughan, the late late lane, is that her name? i always get it wrong. the, the king of, i mean, i'm sorry the president one and you want into your opinion voted for. i'll tell you

that. i know is a great anyway. so she was asked on, i think german tv. would you send your kids towards oh, or stop. oh, that's below me. so if it's, if it's not like an extra essential effort to be russia, it's something else. well, that something else is probably because in the same, the same what you said, oh, we wanna, we wanna up arm europe. we want to create $850000000000.00 of new defense spending . does that sound like uh, someone who see could piece you want to arm up the sales like cold war language to me i what do i know the right. well, if it is the ship at the shop prices of those british islands contract as it will be in the going up obviously since the oval office myself. but of course the, there are a u. s. military contract. as i know, trump is saying that they will be increases as well in the us spare welding. but then i don't know who it is in your deep state that favors this

a tunnel war and oppose it. i mean, you saw the democrats at the congressional speech trump gave, they did not one piece they did. they didn't even stand up. when trump said he was beat, do you expect the deep state just to go quietly as drunk, organized as being else in your? no, no, i think that's wise. pick certain people to start jobs and you know, um, as you mentioned, tulsa, gabbert, tulsa, he's there for a reason. i know chelsea, i consider a friend of paychex just being the pentagon. he has no of agents to any defense contractor, which is a big issue and full disclosure, pete and our friends as to as well. uh, i think president trump is trying to fit people who will not be swayed by the traditional relationships. a number of kind of gone, so basically just came out of military industry. jeanette as the general maddest came out of being a contractor, a senior defense official of contracting official,

mark esper, a big boeing guy. so those guys, no matter what they tell you their, their job is to grow their company 7 percent per year. tony's and he told me to say for journals, any former commander central command who was a, b, a, c, e o. at one point he said the biggest job as a cd or b a was to grow the bottom line 7 percent per year. so that's your job or has to exist, right? i am i, i'm, i'm maybe i think i can make that that link. so if you're a defense contract and you have to grow 7 percent per year, was a good thing. so this, this, this tells me and where i think we're going, is that we want to engage in examining the next war or, or to direct tradition. and i've been at the army war college, i are army war college. i've done lectures as to all too often we're trying to fight the last for the last 4 did not go well for us just saying. so i think we

have to look at the 21st century for what it is not what we want it to be. and people like pete, the extra people like tulsa gap, are going to examine threats as they're developing. so the money is not going to go to okay. oh yeah, yeah, there's a 150000000. it is going to go to the new folks, new, 150000000000, went through the senate. i don't know if that's enough to satisfy those forces in your country. um, but then probably that should then uh, yeah, you know, that's a lot of pressure on the magenta colonel galbraith and pete hex it's, i don't know how many people work. it depends to get all of the 3 letter agencies over there. we know sabotage can be from within so well, how are they going to that? i hope that let me get to that. let me address it real quick so that there are going to be a lot of changes. while the changes at f, b, i in other brock bureaucracies have been public entails communities not going to be quite so public, but it, i think it's going to, i haven't talked to him about this. don't, don't take this is tony schaffer saying,

this is what they've told him. i'm saying based on my experience, based on what i know has to be done, there's going to be a similar internal, clear clearinghouse of the intelligence community. it just won't be as public as those we're seeing right now being presented to the public regarding the other bureaucracy and you just radcliff at the c, i a, i lots of people as a no gary adviser as well. so i don't know, i don't know where to go. i don't know radcliffe, but i don't know, radcliffe, uh so i can speak to that. i, i have to believe president, trump preston as so i'm going to go with that. and mike, again mike wallace and i are friends. i like mike. i think mike has to come a long way regarding his point of view. i've known mike for a long time i. we used to be in the green room in the old days at fox news together . so i, i do believe that he's that it is, it's mike's job to be the traffic cop he's, he's there at the brain stem that goes to the president. so he's got to be there,

seeing and, and, and touching everything. so it's, he says, the general theme is people like policy. and pete will have to get down and get their deputies. they can't even do it. they're going to be busy. you've got to get people out to understand how to do is just to do surgical renew or mobile. let me say something i said this us media the other day i to the german, the joint chiefs general. joseph dunford, told me, during one of our meetings, back in 2017 or 18 that way the united states as spent 6000 percent and increased spending on drone technology by 6000 percent. that's a lot of money. and yet they were the, the return on that investment was a, through a 3 percent gain in real intelligence. does that sound like a good investment? a 6000 percent increase in spending for a 3 percent gain and intelligence know, so that's how insane the intelligence community has been. i'm just using as an

example. so that's just the tip of the iceberg. i think there's going to be a lot of changes coming there. so it had just spinning on a while back about pentagon for tractors. the volume is bad to good with the blue. but, but yeah, that he's not drone figure actually, you know, is because they have 35 in terms of y'all's buyers. he's great. hon. give me. but uh, when you say you, a friend of the national security advisor, probably something that could persuade him to completely turn around from his pre russell for it would be uh, finding the cold war stuff would arguably be the audit of all the billions of public us money that would put into ukraine. what do you, what sort of thing do you think we're gonna find and who is it gonna scoop up in your a leads class of perhaps the politicians, perhaps businessman, who knows. so i think there's several planned investigations. they're

not, they're not going yet, but they're coming again to take this is tony shepherd's opinion. i'm not telling you anything from direct contact. i'm saying is me reading the tea leaves there's going to be several investigations which examine 2 specific funding sources. one is usa id, i would argue usa id played a much more and much more significant role in the might on revolution. and helping see i do what it's done within ukraine. i think we're going to come to find that that's going to be bad. if you think the durable, transgender, durable is that they brought up last night or bad, is a nothing compared to what we're going to come to find. and, and a lot of that money was being set to ukraine and back to think tags and united states. and rushing, left, left the well, the state politicians of both parties. i don't know what time. so give me a level of the release of this information, which of course has been investigated by so many of the you good journalists around

the world who being talking about this kind of thing. because i mean, by the time this goes out, perhaps your attorney general parent body and the head of the f b, i. cache patel will come out with it. but you know what i'm about to refer to. i mean, i don't even to j, f k m l k r s k babies. what's going on with jeffrey epstein, we interviewed that most of the agent that interview. but let me, let me finish it but, but, but, but let me finish the question. so the other funding stream is going to be d o d, because i've talked to pick folks on the ground who told me that the money we send for. and in the end the weapons don't make it to the front. lots, just saying so those are going to be 2 areas, a big product, go back to epstein, look um there's strong rumor that epstein was an intelligence asset, just say so we actually have to do that. and we've interviewed someone who, who said that they introduced the layout maxwell to jeffrey, etc. and that he was the most out of assets for as well. so. yeah, so i again, totally shapers opinion. not based on any direct conversations. the way i

look at this based on the report you guys have done and others. yeah. i think i think epstein was a dirt bag, but he was a dirt bag who is willing to do anything, any intel in the service ask them to do that. includes that my 6 that includes the as riley's and includes the i i, i can honestly say we are in a military, we in d o d ad, nothing to do with it. not to say we haven't done stupid stuff. we have nothing to do with that. let's just say, but uh, but yeah that it's a mess and i think that's why it's been so hard to get the f b i to caught this stuff up because they keep using national security is just the case. yeah. what is, what is this national? i mean, is this mary a model since money think casino will cause money paying for? now, i don't know that it's still being the information coming at are about why it is pam born. do you say things like, well, we're looking into it, it's in some mental manhattan court. the papers. i thought they'd be ready to go. they said they were going to release the stuff. so dot. yeah, well,

there's 2 reasons. first. if i think there's a deeper, a deeper uh, i glacier we have to examine, which is as i mentioned c i x. so if it's true, if it's true, pam bond is going to get this big old set of documents. probably, i don't know, or probably something like 80 linear feet of documents relating to the operations that james call me was engaged to remember that name, the mo, the, the bodies put this together, but i think it's related again, my opinion, not, not, not something i know the moment cash patel came into office, they started a report, they started an investigation on. james, call me off the books operations. i take that off, the books operation goes back to epstein. so if you're a parent body and you start finding out that the f b, i has been using a guy that everybody i know, considers a criminal,

you gotta make some decisions. oh, by the way. who else in the f b? i are us, barbara, we're actually part of this game and maybe even the does it is the i that's the issue. and that's what i think they're dep deliberating right now. but the, the place, you know, been digital and they get put in a well, unless girl k i or something. but anyway, you'll have to come all the time and tell us whether we're there. sure. the u. s. is leaving nato within a title. tony chaperone. thank you. thank you, and that's it for the show will be back with a brand new episode on site dansville and keep in touch my role as social media. if it's not sense in your country and to our channel, the tv on rumble dot com to let you know that besides i'm going on the runs, he's having the hello and welcome to the cross,

the full board. here we discussed some real in the point, the blank page emerging from syria as must executions, are taking place in the nation. and then you is the most raging in damascus is in the world. they live targeting religious minorities, the government sources. and they were asking the people in pressing, you know, in the cards that he was sending me otherwise. i mean he's in, ty, infirmities, it has been this. you make the 1st time testimony as we speak with those who detail the atrocities as check points are set up and then essex defends income and western leaders are finally react.