we also had internal issues with the harvest. well, in general, it didn’t cause such an outrageous surge. this suggests that our economy is often much more complicated than those models in which we do not reason. she is more stable. she's ready for growth, and she's let's say grateful. yes, he perceives those indulgences that we give, and it seems to me that this is such an important very lesson that we need to understand now, and we just have the main time here in our discussion meetings there it takes a lot of effort to connect at a specific moment the efforts on monetary policy and pump a and on fiscal policy, because now we see high real interest rates and the funds that are being paid out are largely going to the deposit. they go to the final demand, but do not see the demand, it is clear that the exchange rate is strong and, uh, it is very difficult for business to navigate. but it seems to me that the question is macroeconomic stability

, such as value, but value for the sake of something, not in itself, but for the sake of something and here is the second the moment, probably, when we are discussing we are discussing about import substitution. it seems to me that we are implicitly still hmm discussing not the import substitution itself. how is the task here to argue something? as it were, yes, this is an opportunity for business, which should be used. and we are afraid of these tools, which we usually use when if import substitution means the state, in fact, there is no import substitution, first of all, private business. and we need to talk about this and left our market. foreign companies have left large niches, which are now being actively pursued by our business and on those new technologies that we will develop. i am with maxim stanislavovich. i agree that all our examples of what we have appeared is primarily a private business. and where we have not implemented, as a rule, no government programs. therefore, we must guarantee the same demand. yes, in some ways we must obviously guarantee there for complex equipment and we will guarantee it, and everything else must be given space. our business needs

to be provided with the same normal macroeconomic conditions and demand from side of the state and affordable credit. that's all. the business does the rest. the main thing is not to interfere with this. stanislavovich excuse me, please , here is a question for you, then specify in this regard. here , uh, antonnovich. hmm, this is so illustrative. uh, well, accurate enough, uh, definition. yes, the budget is like medicine, it should not turn into a drug. that's who the doctor is here, who will determine the dose of the drug that turns the useful drug into a drug. and uh, where is that boundary from your point of view. that's because, as it were, uh, maxim gennadievich is yours. uh, does your work continue in the minekan development, as if here he is, as it were,

his position. yes, and so you can ask who is the doctor . doctors here, here is the medical team, she is sitting. and who are you? i'm just around, but in fact, if you're not kidding, yes, then this is actually such a very difficult balance and you need to talk not only about. the size of the expenditures of the monetary policy should be talking about the structure of the same expenditures. it is no less important than the amount of expenses in this regard. if you look at past years, we always managed to find this balance in the twentieth year. yes, when there was a serious recession, there was a large increase in unemployment and the budget responded with a very powerful stimulus, and only for credit policy it also stimulated and therefore we quickly recovered, therefore, in the discussions in the analysis that are being done in the ministry of finance at the central bank. everywhere there are very competent specialists

who deeply analyze all the indicators. all this is dynamic, they are just looking for that balance in order not to harm on the one hand, and to help on the other hand. and then what will he say no, you will have the opportunity to have the final say. like any doctor. you make a diagnosis. here. and what will dr. nabiullina say about where the drug turns into a drug. i don’t know, i say again, 90 is yes. well, in fact, such an answer from a doctor is more expensive. uh, much more expensive than when the doctor gives. uh, writes a prescription without being able to make a diagnosis. this is actually worth a lot, but, for god's sake, god bless him with the doctors. e with medicine well then, so that no one answers, as i understand it, because when

accepts someone alone is, a responsible council, well, the council made a decision, this is normal. it's our way. here, uh, i'm different. and here. sorry, can you elaborate. we hear all the time that we need a budget rule. that's when we talk about what doesn't turn into a drug. now, you've been talking lately about the fact that, uh, we need a new budget rule, because everyone was very afraid of the old budget rule. and that's why, when he says that a new fear is needed even more. uh, before you, uh, please. just say it briefly , just to reassure people, that this is, uh, not delya, not infection at the stake. eh, i'm talking about something else. look here. just want to remind you that we have from the moment when the budget rule arose. we had four. it's just that no one knows the budgetary, true budgetary rules. there were four absolutely conceptual different ones over

the years. and the last few years. they change annually. we supplement them in essence. i would say so uh, well, it's called when we do in law. called clarification actually from my point of view. we customize it to your needs. here, from the point of view of what you all said, that the conditions are very complex, there are a lot of uncertain components. here is the budget rule that you are talking about, now explain what you mean, we will have it for how long it will be for some long time, that the same business will take root on it. uh, and so on, or it will be such a temporary adaptation under today's situation, by the way, and both have the right to exist. i think everyone will agree that the right one is better than no rules. well, there are different kinds of sports, because uh rule give opportunity. uh, they just

said about business, it is very correct that these rules are needed and, uh, we, as it were, the states. uh, and uh, understanding the horizon. it is also necessary for business that business must understand. uh, what kind of budgetary financial economic policy, which means the state is pursuing and what is the future waiting for us, by what rules does the state play. uh, in this in this question, so what is budgetary law? i don’t know why it’s so draw, that something terrible here is the rule, it’s just the order of the order of determination and summing up the line of expenses that, if possible, can be allowed and which will not lead to a budget imbalance, but a budget imbalance. we said that it is very in certain moments. dangerously. e thing that you can just enter the spiral e. uh, means expenses and uh, how did we ever

have them? we did not have time to service our debts. yes, all the money went exactly there is a pyramid. here, therefore, in order for this not to be necessary, the rules are understandable, the rule for the state is understandable. yes, how many expenses can we have here, without refusing to let the country grow rich from these expenses for business, an understandable rule for all god so that they understand. uh, what will happen to the deficit what will happen to interest rates, to be with inflation, here is an understandable rule uh, so, uh of those volumes, uh, support costs that we hmm a so, we can have business support, too, so the basic principle of these rules to live by means of times the natural rent that we collect, and yet we export a lot of hydrocarbons. e in the fat years. so do not spend in e. bad years, on the contrary, get and

stimulate, thereby such a state demand, replacing the reduction in overall demand in the economy, when the economy is shrinking, that's all. that's all. therefore, uh, this rule, by the way , is connected with monetary and credit policy, and we always say that at the present time, the budget should help the economy with money. yes, uh so, in this part, in this part, we get the reserves that we had. uh, it means the budgetary rules have been accumulated and vice versa, as we said, that when so the situation will normalize. we will be able to have a balanced budget, and in these conditions, when the situation is very favorable, we will gather up this business to save to save. therefore actually. all clear. yes , once again, and you have one amateur on the site, you can

just clarify one clarification. you, in my opinion, said, here e reshetnikov is just a spin straightened up at the moment when you said that the main task of the budget is to provide what is needed for development. here, and then he bent over again, when you began to say that well, after all, here are the raw materials that they want to understand, we have a budget rule, on which it will be based on what is necessary for development or again not cut off, because that's what e will be the price of oil. none of us knows otherwise, in my opinion. you've all been talking here about how this can't be an indicator anymore, and the budget rule is still has been based on the cut-off price. in this regard, here 's a cut-off, this is an element of simply determining the possibility, uh, that means parts of oil and gas revenues that were directed to expenses in a new structure with us. eh, now the volume of production has become very mobile, too, the volume of hydrocarbon production. today. she might be like this tomorrow, a little smaller and so on, so you can

modify this uh tool this element of the budget rule. well, we are just waiting for this bill. look, here he is happy , sitting so pleased, he says, we will work four shifts. okay. thanks a lot. but no, sorry no, colleagues. let's democracy ended at the first vote. that's not necessary. eh, here it is! we understand perfectly well that sanctions are the first financial blow. uh, the first blow is the strongest inflicted on the financial system. the purpose of this is absolutely. it is clear that the country's largest banks are under sanctions. tomorrow can be really any other. this is something that is beyond our control, and we cannot influence it. here i have a slightly different question. here, what model do you see?