and the fact that today you said containers are three to four times more expensive in terms of cost is not a problem for you to find. and for a business that can produce this opportunity yesterday, when containers were uh, in uh, in abundance and cost a penny, there was no point in fooling around about their production. now there is a chance that we are finally looking to produce this after the digital products are closed for us. we all want or don't want to, we create our own products. yes, it's stress. yes it is for a period of time adaptive shock, but we are definitely a donation that can overcome shocks. it seems to me through these difficulties. we will come up with new solutions, i fully agree with you, uh, it is very important to keep the economy flexible and uh,

allowing it to private private agents by expanding the field for competition and for private actors, and there it is. e we left already, we came to a discussion of the answer to the question, as er and as always, the simplest key. a lot of money and we will make all the sources. uh, for this money two was called yes low taxes budgetary subsidies and soft monetary policy. the answer to the question. as if i may, i'll uh, ask questions to two uh, highly respected colleagues. uh, anton germanciu regarding what are our possibilities for tax cuts and subsidies and uh, probably alexey borisova regarding what about, how about super-soft uh,

monetary policy and buying private assets from the market . yes good afternoon e dear friends about e. tax subsidy money dreams uh dreams that are here now spoke realities. that's why, uh, it means that the ministry of finance may not exist, everyone does not like people, because there are a lot of uh, dreamers about reality are completely different proposals and when you form a budget, this is a specific figure and they must have their own balance and the balance must go, therefore i want to call everyone to reality. this is the first remark about e. the first part of the second is now for money. uh, means better uh, tax subsidies and so on. you know both , but it must be. uh, more specifically addressed to all the sisters in earrings, that this is not succeed, therefore, because the resource e is not so your resources are limited. that's why it's

easy. somewhere in taxes, and a reduction in individual tax rates for those who primarily produce the products that are needed now, uh, from which we now how to say, which would now begin to receive to a lesser extent in connection with all sorts of restrictions on subsidies for sure so here you go, you said that we have imports now, uh, the restriction will die out, we need to stimulate subsidies from him, as it were, yes, they really never talked about it, but life, er, means that it is necessary to help importers. there are a lot of such decisions, and this year we are additionally now. i'm here the figures will come three trillion in excess of the plan we allocate for this kind. the solution is this. if you look at the budgets, 26 trillion somewhere costs. so here's another plus hmm planned. here is the total cost. we have, uh, it was planned to be 23 with a little now it will be 26. that's why

we have money, but such endless expenses, uh, expenses are impossible to carry out. why because, if we fill constantly the economy will not need to be constantly overhauled, and our financial systems, this is impossible, so i’m just here, when everyone is talking about budgetary rules, which the ministry of finance , uh, means the ministry of finance, uh, we are proposing not because of limiting spending. and this is due to the fact that we simply would not be dependent on the oil needle, because we are now spending all our virgin gas income on expenses. maybe this is further, maybe, but then our costs will depend on the rent. e, means, which is not determined by e in our country abroad and inflows, and our , uh, means roaring resources that we export can be done, well, we will definitely create such risks with our expenses. why is this the first, as if the consideration to run a little, i will also

say the second limitation. why do we need these budget principles. we completely forgot the budget rules about the dutch disease, we completely forgot, but here it is, it’s already now only the restriction on imports, the rate is strong, in theory, impro should go. right now, it’s just that the logistics chains haven’t lined up yet, but they will line up and get sick again. we got sick recently. by the way, this is a disease and everyone was talking about the need to treat it. so. uh, what's the budget rule for, to keep us healthy? here, in fact, i am for health and the ministry of finance always advocates. let's thank you very much. but bless the ministry of finance bless the economy alekseevich is actually a budget rule in the absence of the possibility of influencing the exchange rate. this is also like this. well, this is a budget story, but no longer monetary credit impact on monetary

credit policy is such a relatively very relative. now e today a strong exchange rate of the ruble one way or another exchange rate in the world is unimportant. with which countries we trade, it goes through dollars and euros. with such a strong dollar and euro exchange rate, of course, adaptation for russian business will be extremely difficult, you see. how do you. see the prospects for the exchange rate. do you see the possibility of influence on him by the monetary authorities, and how do you feel about this phrase? uh super. soft monetary policy translated into russian a monetary mission to pay for the e-e expenses of the economy on transformation. thank you very much monetary mission to pay for everything you want, but let me remind you that economics is still the science of how, well, the science and

practice of how to distribute it in the best way to use limited resources to meet unlimited needs, therefore, here wishlist they are always great, but must proceed from the fact that they must be satisfied at the expense of limited and limited resources. and uh, as a matter of fact, here's a super soft cash credit policy. this is a recommendation, which is, well, very intuitive, and i want to somehow jump on the side of this. and these restrictions, but in fact, practice shows, uh, and the world economic history of our country that this does not work out very well, at least for some it has been more than a dozen years and has given significant growth to the economy of the us europe japan china and the effects of quantitative easing in the us e, japan china and the eurozone. we will most likely be able to fully appreciate e, in the coming years in

conditions when these countries have to quickly abandon this policy. uh, given that they have inflation now, uh, many of them are above the a4 highs of a decade. well, i will not continue the discussion, but the question is that you are your arguments, they do not match. they have been working in this a paradigm for many years. yes , sometime ends after they have built up, and their economy and the standard of living in their countries. after that, you have to refuse, especially after the pandemic, when really to it has grown beyond the borders of the possible and indeed the assistance of the population of the social program has gone beyond the limits yes, let's say, like this, that your argument about economic growth and qi, it is not accepted. we are talking about the emission of money by the central bank, this is a mandatory redemption. no it's yes. this is the issue of money not backed by mrs side of the central bank, which is a second,

which can be spent on whatever it is, private government bonds and so on and so forth. this is a money issue. e question what will it lead to in russia and do we have any new opportunities now? due to the fact that we are going through a period of disintegration from the world economy, or vice versa, the observance of the macroeconomic principles of monetary policy is becoming even more stringent. thanks for the clarifying question. and let's, maybe try to answer this with some allegories. an example from uh andrey mikhailovich is if uh you live in a house there was a hurricane. yes, it's a hurricane. eh, i ripped off part of the roof for you, then you definitely need to repair this roof. yes it is possible that you decide that since it is not so strong, then you will repair it, not only that part, of

course, but the one that tore off, but also the one that remains, maybe you decide to change the rafters. uh, there to make an upper light. uh, well, in this case you won't. changing the foundation is the foundation that ensures that this house simply stands for many more years, uh, is, in fact, uh, macroeconomic stability, and which includes budgetary stability, which anton germanovich said, and price stability. and if talk about the availability of credit, then the availability of credit. can only be secured in a country with sustained low inflation, because even if money is cheap in the short term, then, uh, if the public expects inflation to eventually be high , or if they see high inflation, then the cost of money to borrowers will be. uh, too,

very high. we went through all this, we had it in the nineties in a significant part of the 2000s, when in fact the ruble mortgage loan in the country, in fact there was no case, yes, and this was due precisely to high and persistent inflation, therefore e price stability is an important element for the population, for which it is important in terms of maintaining purchasing power and ultimately demand for those goods and the services that the business produces e, and in terms of the safety of their savings and for the business, because in terms of the fact that e is high inflation. she is never stable. it fluctuates strongly and at the same time relative prices fluctuate profitability. uh, so uh, back to the question. oh, money mission. in all countries, the result of a monetary mission. ultimately, inflation is accelerating. and this is the strength of the taiga

the strength of beauty the strength of the family the strength of tradition the strength of movement what

to do when inflation rises bcs knows about investments and stocks? download the bcs investment world app and invest with the leader. if you keep the road, you will meet a lot to turn left. if a traveler rides, on the right ledge to him by right order, observe and live well, this is a vtb advertisement and it's time to speak frankly. there are things that will not go away our decades of experience, which helped us become stronger and survive all crises 1.300 branches across the country with real professionals who are ready to help in

real life, and not just in advertising government support and the trust of tens of millions of customers. everything, this remains unchanged, as well as our responsibility to you. that's why everything will be fine with your money, as well as with the fulfillment of the dream of your home and the opportunity to support your loved ones. southern moment. respect for the older generation, these are not just words, it is primarily deeds, therefore sovcombank provides benefits to all pensioners and return interest on loans in cash. respectfully for pensioners from sovcombank my name is artyom and i am not an actor. i am a sports journalist and found my job at hh.ru. on hh.ru. there is work. for each for

sure four decomposed plastic bottle. we really can not pull out the situation now. and here is the trend that you showed with the depth of the decline, it is determined by its depth the point that we will reach next year or next is the lowest point and it is determined by the decisions that we are now making excuse me, but uh, the unity of the team of the

management team of states is generally impressive at this table. but you can still answer titov's question where can i get the money? because i'm afraid that i now we will come to a conclusion. you can literally say two or two words about where the money is, he actually says yes alone, uh, because no matter what they say, business wants money, and so it’s possible if we talking about the possibility of their government. in my opinion. uh states. it's back to common sense. for example, when representatives of one of our unfriendly countries, france, in the fifty-sixth year of the last century, came up with vat, he could not even imagine that vat can be taken as a savance. he said that this is a value-added tax, by the way, in the fourth year already. this century, the president of our country in his message to the federal assembly said, well, finally, let's give up vat in advance. by the way, to keep it simple understandably. it's not even the loss of the state. this is a cash gap of 3 months. these are the very three

months that business-to-business today, business actually lends to the state. here is the price of this issue. the price of this issue is almost 600 billion rubles. here we are today, when we come up with mechanisms to give money to businesses, and then release something. so instead of putting the economy on its feet, we are starting to come up with various topics. let 's decide, finally, we will do what the president instructed, in the fourth year there is no a day. and now about business. he's a tour. we have a cool flower, well done. well, you just forget to say that as of may 1 this year, our companies have 43.2 trillion rubles on their billboards. of these, more than 26 trillion are on deposit accounts, and the problem is that business does not invest this money simply, because there are completely different risks, if earlier it was one risk, today it is different and you rightly said that business

does not want to take risks. he is ready to risk the money of the state. give subsidies, what is he talking about? yes, it's best on thin. end. give here credit, there release the mission. this is not a solver. well, in addition to everything we have today, what we said about supporting small-medium businesses there is to surround state corporations. look, there are trillions going to support businesses. but it's just a well-fed business. this is a form of corrupt existence of the state, which today means support for small businesses, and today we have those who actually produce their products are simply not allowed to participate in competitions, and therefore we have the opportunity to get money for business colossal without any of those jerks in terms of there tax exemptions. something else and so on. it's all on the surface a question of the effectiveness of the existence of the system, and i return to the question that i said, who will be responsible for the construction of the bridge. those who have already failed, then you can not start building or still come. those who will

do something in this regard, but that's the question. you also answered in the same fourth year when you said that economic problems are no longer its president. they said that russia's economic problems lie outside the economic plane. thank you very much. if possible, we will return again business. i would like to ask alexei mordashov. uh, two questions alexey you, firstly, you are representatives of the classical industry. yes. uh, well, which we conventionally call a pipe. yes , how do you turn east in your business? eh, how does it work and will you do something? otherwise, to and what, where do you see the potential for investment to diversify your business, including, which today is under attack, it is very export-oriented. germanovich, may i start with your permission, then return to these questions? e s- actually with the

main theme of today's meeting. it seems to me that we are a little. hmm strange, we pose the question. uh, first of all, a fundamental question about the future. yes, and uh, you need to build a new economy, a new structure, or you need to restore the old one. in my opinion. the answer to this question is absolutely obvious. first, we have no other choice but to restore the old one today. just if if we don’t recover the old ones today, then we won’t have any resources to build a new physical one. second, and, of course, you need to think about the future and here. probably there is a place and a sword there and plans. they probably, well, as always, do not match. i personally dream of a lot of things, but not all of what i dream of while planning, as each of those present is sure of specific goals, but one does not contradict the other either. we need to dream and form a vision of the future, but plans must also be realistic in this sense. of course, we need to rebuild the national economy, but here, it seems to me, it is also very dangerous to get carried away. well, what is called dirigisme. yes , today we say that agriculture in

our country is one of the strongest sectors of the national economy. i was surprised, maybe not one saw. how important is the production of grain in russia and for the world economy as a whole. how strong we are an important huge exporter of grain. well, we remember that 20 years ago, even to think about it. basically, it's impossible. why did this happen? yes, because there was a market economy market freedom. and right here. to me it seems very important to first restore what is or try to restore what is. the maximum degree is simply to preserve and not even treat this restoration itself . preservation of what is second, it is necessary to create conditions for business based on market indicators to create competitive advantages and create the economy of the future, the right necessary structures, geological and social. it seems to me a very correct thing that business is irrational. we are all rational business too and in this sense it follows the best decisions. and if these decisions are economic indicators dictate a certain behavior, then we will see such behavior at the same time, so that i would like to say, here we are discussing. uh, as far as

it is, by the way, an option for us in tarki, as far as we can refuse export import ties, but this is absurd. this question does not exist. we cannot physically refuse it. first, we must not give up on this in order to ensure the necessary quality of life in our country and the competitiveness of our business only have access to the best solutions not within the country, but within the world or that part of the world that is available to us. today, we can look forward to a better competitive ability better opportunities for development and restructuring of the national economy. and in this sense. we need to remain open to the world , obviously with the protection of our interests, obviously taking into account the bitter lesson that we are today, by the way, the fruits that we are reaping. and besides, for something it is not available does not mean that we need to close and moreover, it's impossible. that's physically impossible. imagine imagine for a second, what will happen to us if we suddenly e disappear, i think we will stop. just physically stop there will be nothing, electricity.

we have a lot of all sorts of e components, e, everywhere and everywhere. yes, and very often we now see that the level depending on imports is very critical. that is, we need to restore all this in order to create a bridge to the future. these are not contradictory, not contradictory provisions. this is complementary, which is necessary for this and in fact. here's what i wanted to say, i will then move on to your m-th question directly to the first answer. in my opinion. the banal is obvious. we many times. eh, already convinced of the validity of this answer. we need a market economy. i need an open free market economy. for this you need. remove the maximum number of barriers we have a lot of them, we have a lot of historical ones , we have accumulated a lot. we have now created as a response to the sanctions is very understandable on the one hand, but on the other hand. well, there has to be something careful. yes, in order not to cut off access to those resources that are still available today, it artificially prohibits there, i don’t know , software or there are some.

we need to remove the restrictions that are for us. well, somehow in many they were familiar. although we have thought about abolishing them, for example, currency controls, currency restrictions today, in my opinion, well, they are a serious, surviving factor, the first thing to set up chains. we need more freedom to pay abroad, to leave money abroad to pay. there third parties, and so on and so forth. secondly, this will be the next question. we are already seriously talking about an overly strong ruble, in my opinion. cancellation of currency control and pushing the maximum degree of currency abroad, by any means. today it is a blessing. sorely needed for us in this sense, the abolition of currency control is yet another argument in its favor. and the first thing we need to do is remove the barriers. we need to remove barriers to the maximum extent everywhere. and a lot of work in this direction done, but it's still not enough. come on, i'm here to call on the representatives of business and the government sitting there in the hall. let's start stepping up the work

of removing barriers, but we need market freedom. second, well, we need the right macroeconomic indicators. we just talked about the rate of the central bank. yes, i have great respect for working with the central bank. i believe that we have, by the way, historical. hmm, it was a huge advantage for our country to work. so the work of the economic block government and the central bank. i have great respect for what your colleagues are doing, but today, it seems to me, we continue what i said. well, it's like trying to give up the house. and we somehow got used to sticking to some things. and so keep going. yes, we need a balanced policy. yes, you have to be careful . i have always personally been a supporter of this cautiously restrained policy, but today this situation is such and we are experiencing such a sharp shock that we probably need to respond quickly. with this, about two mikhalychs remembered a very good example about vat on advances. yes, not a very big question. but it's a barrier. let's kiev from changing,

then, and uh, these are all the questions we need to course. yes means, it is not necessary to be afraid of inflation. we grabbed deflation like this, and one more thing. you are quick to respond colleagues. loyalty means business is a little bit to say. we're still on air aleksey if possible, proboriers, we heard everything already hurts, yes, what will you do, otherwise to yourself. if it is possible, what to do or make attacks? it is clear to remove barriers. what will you do, otherwise, and will you do something, otherwise the first thing will be afraid you need to remove barriers. the second is needed. uh, special measures and some creative ideas for uh, filling the economy with money to reduce the rate at the new rate, that is, we need to somehow achieve some kind of sterilization measures, excess export money and so on. concerning? yes, one more moment is very important, which means, here i am. can we talk about the restructuring of the economy, where

we are. forgive me now, i mean, but you know, they remind me of a military situation, my good ones, who , under the conditions, could not rebuild the emotional economy, and now such well, heavy yes , critical paramilitaries, but maybe the russians need a war. yes, in order to somehow force yourself to act. ok then. let's take advantage of this kim's momentum energy, but we need to be bigger somehow. well , whether one nation and support each other in this process. here is one of our companies. eh, encountered. uh, we produce plywood. this means that we faced a sharp restriction on exports from the sanctions. 80% of our products were exported. so uh, forced to send people to idle there with the payment of two children. the prosecutor's office sent 15 requests to us. at the beginning of the year, several directors of our factories wanted to go to the prosecutor's office. let's explain. why is this happening the state labor inspectorate sent us a bunch of checks. well, it all ended with the fact that we somehow got a warning warning about the

need to comply with labor laws, no other sanctions there was not, but our factory directors. not only do they struggle with production problems are very acute. so they went to the prosecutor's office. an explanation was given. well, maybe we can refuse this, dear colleagues, but somehow support each other, which we will do differently. first, we will do exactly what i just said first , we will try to restore the chains on the scale that is possible, we will reorient east to south into africa, the middle east, asia, and so on. it turns out very badly. bye. at the same time, i want to say a huge thank you to my colleagues. some of them are present in this room. i was honestly even surprised. uh, here's the dedication to efficiency, uh, that colleagues have demonstrated in this work. eh, if three months ago it seemed that there were some problems, but it is impossible to solve it at all. today we somehow already see that some steps of the market economy are giving results. this is a continuation of the topic that i spoke about. uh, the market economy works. if she will be, if there is market freedom, people will work and the chain is being restored. and we are doing it now. we were asked sharply for the

volume of production in the forestry business. we noticeably sank steel there, if in lesnoy there is an 80% drop in steel production somewhere around 25-30 percent, then

sell it for export. and so here we sit and wait and say, let's go government faster faster. well, you'll forgive me, everything returns to business. hurry up. make a decision faster. buy, import. decide where you will be invest, then the course will even out, so we, no matter how it turns out, that we are waiting for each other is very simple, first of all, we are

rational and we act every day to do the same thing that you act slowly. oh, the first one, you’re right, i’m sure it is, by the way, my colleagues always say, the second, but i think that in our place there are few who would act faster, believe me, but from those conditions of restrictions, yes, oh, which in those restrictions, which we ended up, well, i don’t know, somehow it doesn’t work out faster, the germans still believe, but we have a desire and competence , and a huge desire, because here is the current crisis. it is not reflected in some beautiful conversations at these tables. it is the standard of living of people, they lose their salaries, they lose their jobs, and believe me, they are trying in everything to do this. there are too many restrictions, but at the same time, the indicators you are talking about, they also send them signals. yes, we stop exporting. it's just that it's carved like this here, i think we need a well-coordinated teamwork. come on, we're a few let's lower the stake. let's, we come up with some me- let's remove the currency control for me. let's remove many restrictions. it will give. we still have a push today, what is happening because of all these, you

correctly wrote the closed-loop economy from this and it is shrinking. let's take action to stop this trend. let's go to another one and we will quietly. you were our indicators. you present money to us herman, so, uh, the ministers are indicators. yes, we will act specifically, it will be a little better. you will still give us the economy more balanced can be weakened. uh, bet and so on and so forth. we need to start moving in that direction while we pinch each other's throats. thank you very much alexandrovich if possible, very briefly to you very briefly, but no, several times, uh, he suggested discussing the topic of the ruble exchange rate and the central bank, but, unfortunately, he got bogged down in talk about the softness of monetary policy. you know, in fact, in my opinion. today this is a key issue and not just the exchange rate of the ruble. but suppose we build a pipe to the east. a question is, and what will we be paid for

deliveries through this pipe, but because, if we are talking about payment in dollars or faith in currencies, and hmm, which today is a weapon, in fact an economic weapon against russia, it is obvious that for so long the situation can not develop. therefore, while we e the ruble will continue to strengthen, imports. there will be much less exports and so on. therefore, if we are talking about the main challenges of today, we need to understand how the east will pay for deliveries goods that will be carried here, in my opinion, primarily to the central bank. yes, and the ministry of finance of the ministry of economy needs to think about a new system of world settlements. will it be the creation of some new uh, collective currency, uh with friendly countries, they think and do it. yes, i did

n't hear a single word either yesterday at the section that andrey mikhailovich led or today about this. this is history, of course. today's key issue is the key one, because this is the issue here, they said, of the predictability of the economy. we can predict. what course will we have tomorrow, how will we look now? uh, budgeting for the next three years. you know, both of them said yesterday, but our gdp in dollars will grow very strongly. this will probably be frustrating. uh, uncle sam but that's how it is for us. what is the benefit of budget revenues, if the e-e rate strengthens against the dollar, there will be up to 40 rubles. for the dollar will be significantly reduced and there is no longer about any dutch disease. we will not talk about the budget rule, it will be completely different, therefore in my opinion. eh, this is the question. and here, uh, you know, you can assume uh and offer. here

we are talking there from the thirties, but probably it is necessary to offer. uh, very serious, but hmm questions related to the creation of a new monetary system. maybe try to go back and create some kind of currency, as at one time in europe it was such a settlement or or sdr which never became a settlement currency, because the americans in every possible way began to counteract this, but without answering this question. we are not we can move on. next thank you very much colleagues. uh, i think that our discussion today is a reflection of what we have today, uh, the economy for 3 months there was a radical elephant. macroeconomic preconditions for

business luck what was considered the main and most important export is now becoming a poison for the economy. imports, which has always been considered that import substitution is what needs to be pushed out to the maximum side, becomes the main cure for the disease of the over-strengthening of the ruble and , in fact, the destruction of the national production. everything turned upside down, of course, in such a short time, objectively speaking, well, a person is not even able to rethink this new situation, and to rebuild all the mechanisms of logistics, all transport logistics, rebuild the physical infrastructure, rebuild the payment chains, when the whole world is developing through what we have two international currencies the dollar and the euro

80% of world trade in dollars and now in a very short time. we need to rebuild, and there arise their own problems. the only currency that is in surplus by in relation to the ruble - this is the yuan, all other currencies are scarce and we can get the turkish lira rupee, and so on and so forth, which will not be of any value to us, because we will not be able to trade it. it is not a freely convertible currency. and it's a huge huge list of issues that the government's central bank is working on right now and so forth. i could never imagine that someday the government would decide to subsidize at the rate of imports; today such decisions are being made. and of course. the key factor, no matter how hard it was for us to adapt, is the speed factor.