7 years old here is ours. this is about our age, we are not so much young as average. yes, we must think about those generations that go on, in order to develop, accordingly, not the past future and not fall into the trap when developing here. going along such a retrograde industrialization. we will find ourselves later, if we again fall into an open economy, we will find ourselves with non-competitive industries or non-competitive technologies and capable capital, because when external restrictions end, no matter what happens compression because we will be a competitor not ready. today. this is a very important thesis. not now we are now so that we are not in the nineties now, but we can be there, by this second criterion. and what about democracy? uh, our market is shrinking, but we have, uh, the ability to rely on migration. and here, too, a variant that leaves us with two open gates. in the meantime, russia can also follow an extensive growth model

precisely by attracting migrants. with such a strong angle, attracting migrants is easy. this gives them a competitive wages, while this reduces the competitiveness of wages, if you look at russian production against foreign production. therefore, two ways are open for us - extensive growth of this model, which is still open. despite the limitations of the russian russian labor market and intensive growth, i would like to believe that we will choose the latter. yeah, great oleg, please, i probably have about two points about human capital again. the first is that i will join my colleagues. eh, borrow with all your might. and a word to steal. we we will not apply, but from at some point, cut yourself off from world experience. it would be very painful. and if we think about what we need now is not to close, not to stop reading in english, and even more so in chinese, those who can. but trying to take it all for yourself, trying to use it for yourself, and that’s exactly how the skills that work, let’s say, that eugene and i and many other people, probably involve the

second thing, which i think is still important. uh, the russian economy is the economy of large companies when we say about human capital. every time we understand that in a large company. it still sells itself to large russian companies. a lot of them are quite successful and uh. let's say, using many of the world 's experiences with mining again. with anything, we are at a very high level, at least so far, as far as small-medium businesses are concerned. here he is extremely specific with us, and he is wonderful, he is trading to a greater extent than anything else. and that's just how we would do it. so that human capital can realize itself not only at the level, copies of sales. this is also very good, but still does not add. so much cost would be more beneficial to understand how we give people the opportunity to realize themselves in something else, such as the manufacturing industry, then inventions before some other things. well, here you can remember how the genius began, the main people do not interfere. yes alexander

please. well, oleg is busy, densely in the field of education, and he directly knows how human capital is created. in fact, a lot of it is self-created. eh, my opinion. i'm on closer to the financial markets, and my view is probably more subjective, but it is as follows, when i look at how our educational system compares with international counterparts, then we are at a good level, but if you look at all the educational trajectory, then we have a slight, well, subsidence. e in the field, natural sciences at school. we start giving out later, and we give them. uh, not as good as in countries that well are technological leaders. and we with children are very love to read. uh, such soviet stories about the fifth of ryzhik, and if you remember, there is such a moment when they run away there and run to the station of a young technician. and it seems to me that if we want to be a real

technological power. then we have these techno-technical skills that should be given much more seriously earlier and to children. that's much more serious. it seems to me that this is the only way out, i see. but since. you approached, uh, technological sovereignty so well. i think that marcel will not be asked about human capital, probably, we will now start moving in a different direction and marseilles i think that you should now ask such a degree on the topic of technological sovereignty or, as we used to call it, on import substitution and on the possibility of our economy, given the limitations that the technological chains have for me today, to build new and count on the fact that our ability to create new technologies and the perception of the market for these technologies not only in russia but also in countries that we call it friendly. that we have great potential here, but first

let me just say a couple of words, and after those two uh discussions that we briefly had, and we're on the topic of the new webe model. hey, we offer. including, as one of the elements to speculate, see in such a way that the basic institutions created over 30 years for the most part, this and uh, regulators, including financial authorities include the central bank this and uh, the modern tax system as a whole, the fiscal system of the russian federation management. ah, reserves. e and much, much more, by and large, basic institutions. some are even more perfect than in the states of the seven. i say i am sure that i am saying the right things, for many institutions. we haven't been able to move forward. but, most likely, i will use this baggage that we have, as success for the

upcoming period of development, should be used in order to congratulate the construction of a changed model that will have a completely different character for the interaction between the state and business. uh, our customary law defines entrepreneurs as the person who takes the risk. on himself and risking, basically his main task. the main task of making a profit is most likely hmm entrepreneurs in these conditions. it is necessary to perceive this creative person in a completely different way, which is obliged to interact with his employee. and here, consider, uh, to support the initiative and creativity of your employee from the state power in order to use the profits earned, both to receive dividends and to develop society as a whole. this is an advertisement

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any inhabitant of the galaxy can become clients of this bank, that's what the largest bank post bank is. so, technological sovereignty, please, thank you igor ivanovich it seems to me, yes, now we call it importozam- technological sovereignty used to be called import substitution. but what you need to understand is that this is a strategy that many countries have already been going through for long periods of time and, accordingly , it is good to understand what they did, what worked, what no. and what does the world experience show such a classic strategy of import substitution. it is, in fact, in most cases. she is not successful. why is it very simple any national market. it will always be less than the global market, so the more complex the technology, the more investment. they require, accordingly, restrictions. here are

the dimensions of such a national market. they are becoming more and more decisive, so , uh, it seems to me that this is the case, of course, but you need to deal with import substitution, you need to deal with technological sovereignty. in key industries that are of critical importance there from the point of view of security, but the overall strategy, it is still economic , should be aimed at stimulating exports. export is just the same, but you must be so technologically advanced, including the basis for a new economic growth. why does it seem to me, here, but we didn’t quite succeed in the previous 8 years. although it was such a paradigm, some kind of economic policy did not work out very well in my opinion. there are two reasons. the first reason is that, in fact, even now we don't know what is the share of imports. how many in some key markets? information, well, that is, the first thing you need to be able to

understand is to collect data e, in order to understand where the critical is. and this, but, where not quite, here is the second point. but it seems to me that it is still necessary to not scatter resources. that is, now in the new conditions it is necessary to determine, e. well, i don't know those markets, those technologies, where on the one hand it is critical, and on the other hand. there are real opportunities to achieve something in 2-3 years. and if the plan is for 10 years, then rather all in all, it won't be very successful you have to do what you can do. here in the coming years. yes, thank you, what you just said is important. this is technological sovereignty, but at the same time, developing new production technologies, you need to think, and hmm competitive markets. once again, this is what sony said, it is very important that in no case fall into this trap when we provide the reproduction of what is now unavailable to us at any cost on any issues, but at the moment when compression or external this

is for us inauspiciousness goes away, we will find ourselves in a situation where these goods will not be in demand on the world market. in no case should this be allowed, with all the difficulties of interaction with western countries and partnership with these markets. there is an opportunity to direct our efforts to other possible markets that will perceive our products and services, but since you spoke about the technological sovereignty of technology and new production. uh, i see in the hall of alexander petrovich we did not agree in advance alexander petrovich kuleshov and who for me is great prestige. alexander petrovich is the rector of skoltech, a project for which we launched self-guided together. uh, of course, after february 24 , the projections found ceased to exist. now it is an independent sovereign technological project and that's all petrovich if a few words about impossibility, even in these conditions of technological development and the ability to export our technological developments to world markets. i do

not at all lose reasonable optimism in this sense, but it seems to me that it is necessary to set goals correctly. er, let me give you a simple example. uh, so far our goals have been set in terms of the percentage of import substitution. ok then. what difference does it make if 99% i can do it myself but 1% is a qualcomm ski chip or an intel one, i have to buy a chip. what difference does it make that i don't have any products. all the same, absolutely wrong criteria were put in the basis of other criteria, we need criteria. how many technological chains up to the last product we can do on our own. and in this sense, it is very important to find those missing components that we cannot now and make them yourself. but it needs to be guided. here is a simple example or do you understand electronics? well, what to say? of course, we will not be able to get - we will not be able to liquidate that

huge foundation of many children that has now arisen. what can we do? on the contrary, do not eat to do all the microelectronics. but we understand that now we need we need base stations, it doesn’t matter four or five is a separate separate issue, but in these base stations , in the end, if you made them, even from imported elements. you understand that here there are two or three critical elements that you cannot buy even in friendly countries. here are the ones you have to do. that is, it is the reverse. you must first understand what is absolutely necessary for you. and then try to do it. thank you but still, because you are at the forefront here and you run a very important organization based on skoltech, created first-class world-class laboratories, which, of course, offer not technologies and patents for industrial production. many of your successful developments, bought international giants. eh, tell me, even

in these conditions, about which we are now, you see more opportunities and that these are our technologists. the developments have received industrial acceptance in our market. you know, i really hope that the current conditions will change the paradigm of public administration related to technological sovereignty, because the very word technological sovereignty. e. listen, you know the name of the american tv. i think no. and why, because they don't make them. no need to strive it is impossible to do everything by yourself. it is inevitably impossible to highlight the key points. good. thanks now. thank you yes, uh, friends colleagues. i ask, let's now take, as it were, the basis of technological sovereignty of the possibility of export. which of you wants to support this topic, please, you will tell oleg you want, i see, there are just a couple of words, please, i will remind you that the map is the world. this is actually the story that is clearly technological, which

means that the sovereign is done. she was, of course, with the help of our esteemed international colleagues. but still that's exactly what the infrastructure is, it seems to me here. we will absolutely agree with the rector of scaltech that the infrastructure is a key element, and the base stations of mobile operators are the infrastructure on which we can work, if it is not there, we do not have anything from the internet to mobile communications, so, probably, this is this state can regulate, but i would object a little here already, because business is better at choosing everything else, if we are talking about about the infrastructure, okay, ok, there is a huge space for discussion, if we are talking about the specific application of specific things, there the state forces will be too strong, perhaps yes, please, colleagues. who else sonya thank you very much. uh, well, to be honest, also here uh, addressing. it seems to me that all the main ideas really. i would like to support. eh, i want to focus on individual sectors precisely because, as we have already said, resources are really

limited, including human resources. yes we should choose some priorities e should not be forgotten. e service sector, which can also be an export direction. as strange as it sounds. yes, including financial services, for example. uh, this is also a direction that can be developed like uh, because here we are just, uh, at a high degree of development, yes, on such a competitive leg, which can uh here, uh, turn out to be. and as for, really, in terms of experience, how did it work? what did not work, complementing the marseilles. uh, of course, uh, there are plenty of examples, where e export development proceeded on the basis of technology borrowing. therefore, we need to understand how we can work with this, and the second factor, which is often e. waiting for this is this subsidy. e, for example, consumption of resources, for example, energy resources. uh import for most countries. it was precisely the import of energy resources, fortunately. we do not have limited access to energy resources,

but think about how to make energy resources in the country and or other raw materials cheaper on a permanent basis, including e, using a damper mechanism, which can develop into more sectors. uh, that's about it too. it's worth thinking about sensible protectionism is, uh, we're probably going to have to go through the issue of keeping this protectionism really sensible. yeah, understandable, but since you said well-developed financial services. i agree that our financial banking sector is, uh, as advanced as we often don't even realize the value that has been created over these decades. i would like to ask alexander isakov here the development of a topic that is close to you is to many it seems impossible to build an international financial center in moscow even in these conditions, when the ruble is becoming a very important regional reserve currency and as far as we are through the use of this

mechanism and interaction with friendly countries. we can export both capital and cooperate in building production chains, please. thank you very much. oh, by the way, this is a topic, i think, related to technology too, because the consensus is that we are entering into the period of such simplification. uh, which definitely does not concern my financial industry. uh, in my opinion, we have such a history. and we really now have a unique chance, when rational prerequisites for the creation of an international financial center in moscow have taken shape from these prerequisites. in general, well, the first two are global. we are entering a period that is very similar to the seventies. this period of high inflation of high prices of food energy raw materials, a and high rates above all ko rais. yes, these dollars are euros

the stakes will be much higher than they were in the previous decade of experience from the seventies most, er, vulnerable and away from the greatest blow. there will be developing countries importing food energy, they will suffer a blow due to high global rates and at the same time higher ones. there are quite a lot of prices in these countries. for example, we see turkey yes, where cds are now 700 of them is a huge amount. uh, that is global these countries. e, they will experience a huge demand for external financing in order to overcome this period of this decade to be on that side in good condition. on the other hand. we will make good money. we will have a large current account, everything will be fine. but we will have a great demand to save in foreign currency. this is rational. it's not going anywhere, and our saver wants to have an asset that balances, well, his own

employment and income risks, which for us are associated with raw materials, and therefore we will want to accumulate. e. currency assets. unfortunately, now the accumulation of funds in dollars and euros is associated with great risks. because of this we we see that our banking system, we see examples, offers, in fact, negative rates on these deposits. as discussed in recent days. what way out of this way out of this lies in the fact that these countries, a, could borrow and attract the currency that the domestic banking sector here within the country cannot process, but at rates that can be lower than global ones precisely because that inside these rates are lower global, there is a rational, uh, completely rational basis for becoming and we, like investors, and keep for a long time, developing countries are friendly to us,

and for them, but to attract this capital from us, which we accumulate on exports. and here is the current account. thus, to become an investor in the real sector. yes, of course. of course. we should, uh, become an investor in the real sector. we should no longer accumulate international reserves, as we did before, because all these assets turn out to be, well, their liquidity and safety, it turns out, are not what we used to expect, while the requirements for on the friendly, developing countries have much higher quality financial assets, just getting ready for a session about your materials, i read, a certificate that in recent years the gold foreign exchange reserves of the people's republic of china have not been growing, but at the same time their assets abroad are increasing real assets and thus what you are now proposing that, on the one hand, it will form a more unstable international monetary system, where the ruble is removed from a completely different role. and at the same time, it will allow us to invest in real serious e

companies, which will, among other things, facilitate our international operation and exchange of goods. great idea, by the way, marcel. and i can't discuss the topic of export without asking. i warned you in advance that of course i would ask, but uh, oil and gas, oil products, gas chemistry , petrochemistry. uh, now there is a lot of speculation that with the restrictions that are introduced by uh, unfriendly countries. i, uh, this currency flow will end and we will not have a resource for modernization, tell me, what is your professional view of how the oil and gas sector will behave in the of these restrictions, what will happen globally? and i think that just the oil and gas sector will face restrictions, but they are surmountable, what we are seeing now, and that's the sanction restrictions in terms of oil and gas. they lead to a reduction in exports of physical volumes, but prices

remain high and, most likely, prices for raw materials. i agree. but with colleagues, they will be quite high in the coming years, but we have a certain surplus. and in terms of production, most likely, there will be some excess capacity. and as a in terms of oil and gas and in my opinion. this creates just excellent opportunities for developing, and sectors with the next levels of processing, and even petrochemicals, that is, one of the options, well, monetization of the same gas lies in the fact that but to develop the gas industry and , accordingly, transportation, and the final product . it's getting easier in a way. there is a lot of discussion right now. ah, the question of what will happen to spg and what is the future fate of these new large projects that were planned and which were largely based, and partly on western technologies. i think this will be a transformation towards

domestic equipment, but nonetheless. yes, it is possible, for example, a to also develop the production of ammonia and methanol, because production is simpler. here it is more localized and, accordingly, there are more opportunities for a to implement it on its own sites. on the other hand, transportation is on the other hand, and the final product on the market is also simpler, in a sense, therefore, just a certain delta of excess capacity arises, which is necessary , in order to rationally use these resources, it is necessary to monetize with the help of the following redistributions, that is, you are sure. that we will be able not to lose income in exports if we carry out the necessary maneuver in time and provide the market with these technologies now. i think we have a consensus on this issue. but yes, it’s true, you are

the head of an institute whose name is energy, which means that this is very important people today are handing over, the questions are those that understand economics or are simply interested. you know a variety of periods, especially when people are always difficult, uh, trying to study or at least read something about a difficult period of modernization. uh, the economy in the twenties and thirties. and there, of course , it is so rigidly described at the expense of what resource this modernization was made. e, now does not mean, without naming all the elements, collectivization begins and ends, ending with the acquisition of foreign equipment in countries that today are not for us friendly nonetheless. eh, it's still important to hear from you where the source of this modernization by institutions is. we called that to develop human capital. uh, keep in touch with the markets to form a new financial market. uh, you need to create all

the conditions for entrepreneurship to develop. where is the money in order to ensure immediate modernization in these conditions, which forms a new economic model, eugene propose from you. thank you where is the money, where is the money for this upgrade. you know we created a chic financial market, indeed. one of the best in the world. i can confirm this by working frequently with our banks. you then work with others and cry, because sometimes you see that in other countries the cave age is compared to us. believe it so. well, we have created, in addition to this, a chic infrastructure of the exchange market. we have essentially created a new generation of investors who have invested and need support at the last moment. this is a very serious factor. today we need to support the domestic investor. for this there is lots of ideas. it's just that i don't want to speak now, unfortunately, not enough to say, but this is required and the second moment. very important look. we absolutely do not use new and cool tools that are used all over the world. how, for example, south koreans

raise capital, mainly through the sibon from the envelope was bons. sorry, we try to do this, sometimes we stick into various legal restrictions of a legislative nature, but with one of our respected clients. i have tried to make the placement and in general to issue the converted bond ran into so many little things that we decided. okay let's wait. i think that these are the tools that can allow us today, if all administrative legal restrictions are removed correctly. uh, to raise money, but for this i say again, well, that is, the capital is actually available on the capital market. yes, we only need to support our russian investor. he came and today he needs our support. thank you admin before total. for durability

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