to maintain a very important spiritual cultural unity, and even today, when it is here, well, the situation with ukraine sometimes seems that everything that could be destroyed has already been destroyed, anyway, this is the only thing that remains. this itself is the strongest connection, because they are the deepest, they are connected with the most important and dear thing that a person has from my point of view. this is the scope here, and the second point is, of course, if we return to your question - this is the personal ambition of mr. denisenko who, in general, yes, all the promises are here in moscow, the orthodox kiev patriarchate of kiev, the so-called what is it called? yes , the kiev patriarchate. and he, of course, also played his role. uh, tell me the recent council of the ukrainian orthodox church, which, by the way, once again confirmed the self-government and independence of the church. and, uh, he named the conditions for overcoming the schism of the church in ukraine . how dramatic was this event? i think it's dramatic in the sense that everything that's happening

right now is a drama, and a tragedy in general. yes, about this, but it has been said many times, and this is absolutely obviously hmm it is clear that the ukrainian church is under tremendous pressure it is clear that the church. in a sense, it's hard to get used to being under pressure, but it's enough to remember the soviet era, and decades of constant very strong pressure. but of course, this is such a difficult situation in which pressure comes from different sides. here, if we say, and the pressure of previous years. it was to a greater extent, perhaps, political, yes, but here, due to this active phase of hostilities, of course, it was added to this emotionally, media pressure has greatly increased, and including the global one, we can see this even in the pressure on the russian church as a whole. yes, maybe we'll talk about it later, but when hmm

tries some absurd accusations. uh, present to the russian orthodox church, so i think yes, and the drama is that it is again . it is known that representatives of the ukrainian church. e bishops from different dioceses. in general, they occupied different positions. and this is also a collision. here are these positions in the pursuit. there are some proclaim abstracts and a counter theses from the side of other trees. this, of course, is not easy. uh, tough situation. well, not only orthodoxy is split, but also countries by and large, like ukraine as a single state, indeed, as a single country and the territory where people live in deep and long-standing consumption. this is obvious, therefore, of course, this also leaves its mark, but with your points of view. this is pressure up to the fact that some decisions are made on the alienation of property, and, as a rule, on in western ukraine, uh, the seizure of churches is, uh, part of some kind of large-scale policy of such targeted

pressure, because, well, it's not a secret that, in fact, the main goal of the fight against the ukrainian orthodox church. this is an attempt to take away the laurels and , first of all, to the caves. how serious is this threat. and what will this mean for orthodoxy? here i think that such a threat, of course, exists. unfortunately. eh, that's probably not the last. and such a symbolic symbolic dimension has because that, of course, the kiev-pechersk lavra is the oldest monastery, the orthodox russian orthodox church of the ukrainian orthodox church. and, of course, these constant conversations and the tension that arises, of course, are connected with understanding the significance of a place and assessing the degree of seriousness. i don't take it now. e, it’s clear that this is such a sword of damocles, which is hanging all the time and, so to speak, threatens , it’s clear that, perhaps, this is a

recent meeting that has grown into a cathedral. perhaps , in the opinion of one of the participants, to become something that somehow led to a easing of pressure, but we are forced to state. what, as long as there is no easing of pressure on the ukrainian orthodox church, and you know? there is an element of deceit here. eh, the official kiev, in general, is quite restrained in its behavior from the point of view of some statements. and and even there may be action, but what happens on the ground. yes , let's say, yes, for the sake of taking these laws lie. they don't have yet. e movement i mean the laws regarding the prohibitions of the ukrainian church, but on the ground you it's happening it's giving and uh, officially torment, that's some room for maneuver. yes, they say, but we don't do anything. these are the people on the ground. well, i think that the old one, yes, yes, that is, it’s nothing people themselves decided so, yes, nothing new, but the main thing is what it is, if it really was before. these are the same people who decided. yes, some

extremist nationalists who came, but today they are still local authorities who allow themselves to make decisions there to ban the activities of the church, and so on. of course, very serious pressure and pressure associated with not just a problem. the removal of temples, but with a threat to life, this is also, unfortunately, so in order to understand the depth of the drama of the events taking place today in ukraine, we met with one of the priests who, through personal experience, experienced not only the tragedy of the schism, but everything the hardships and repressions that the ukrainian orthodox church is now experiencing. life-giving trinity on sparrow hills, the very one where kutuzov prayed before the council in fili and the one who, despite the easter bell ringing carried prohibitions even in the soviet years and never closed its doors for believers. the church of the holy life-giving trinity is located far from densely populated residential areas, despite this during worship. it's always crowded here. many believers have been coming here on purpose for 8 years now, the

rector of khrom, father andrey, in 2014, he was forced to leave his native odessa, managed to leave the city shortly before he was raided with searches, father andrey spiritually nourished the activists on kulikovo field and therefore became the target of the sbu, they first demanded that i open the confession of a parishioner who participated in the rallies then, a demanded that i appear for interrogation and be, uh, agree to my arrest during this interrogation in kiev the tragic denouement of events on may 2, in odessa, when nationalists burned alive more than 40 anti-maidan activists in the house of trade unions, father, andrey, did not take the question. does he now keep in touch with the clergy who have remained in ukraine, he answers carefully to do harm. maybe every word is just afraid afraid to answer the phone afraid to speak. all of us here do not understand this oil

. social media is being monitored. telephone conversations are being monitored after the creation of the schismatic orthodox church. in ukraine, discrimination against the clergy and believers of the canonical ukrainian orthodox church only intensified and became an integral part of the state policy of the kiev authorities. and at first, he completely covered the country with special operations, a real church raiding account of the captured churches. it's already in the hundreds. these ones footage was filmed just the other day in the ternopil region. in the village of kolodnoe, the priests drag the schismatic dog away from the church and throw the parishioners on the ground. they also beat up men who are trying to protect the shrine. these people carry on their shoulders, then, by the blessing of god, which preserves the special spiritual world of russian orthodoxy , they are now at the forefront of our prayers should be with them, our thoughts should be with them,

father andrei shows the main shrines of the temples of the life-giving trinity they are here right now restoration work is being completed. many murals and images have been restored, and some, like this icon of the lord almighty of the 18th century, have been rediscovered and today there is a special symbolism in this. it was all broken, the black one didn’t really have an inscription on it, but it was damaged, and now it was in one of our limits and, uh, our temple servants didn’t even remember. what that after the restoration, that we had such an icon since 2014. here, the whole world collects humanitarian aid for the donbass, everything from food and fr. gennady yuryevich donbass helping the destroyed church, helping our soldiers, helping the wounded from the very first days of the beginning of the conflict in donbass

, people fled from the war flocked to the church of the life-giving trinity. here they got married and baptized their children. they prayed here, no matter how tired you are, but you get up to pray and pray, because you understand that the situation is very difficult in the world. and as the saints also said and the elders that russia will save the whole world, you know, it is with this orthodoxy that the little ones, because the gospel says that orthodox believers are the salt of the earth of salt, she needs a little bit , you understand, today within these walls, prayers still do not stop and despite the church schism in believers are united like never before anna efimova anastasia popova 1/6 vladimir ivanovich most people i have come across this in ukraine and in russia uh, they understand the depths and in general the tragedy of the church schism in ukraine because, well, i i often heard such arguments, but why serve in the

same language in churches. eh, it's all orthodoxy. eh, so, what then is the really great tragedy of the ukrainian schism? that's why the appearance of the dog of the orthodox church of ukraine, which is also recognized by constantinople, why this is the deepest tragedy for orthodoxy in the post-soviet space, and you are absolutely right. it really is. here, a layman can even be a person, but there, from childhood, who went to church, maybe not even always, it’s clear because i i remember, but in the ninth year, when patriarch kiril e visited ukraine several times and we came across such conversations, and this one was so ordinary . , ukraine is our capital. what, kiev so we have a patriarchy? what should be kiev but not moscow yes and here are people who do not even know the nuances, but well, the basics, i would say, here is the meaning of unity in church life. eh,

there are some canonical rules. although they are fundamental to church life. it was very difficult for them to talk with them, because there were no common ones. like points of contact. yes, that is, you must, if a person needs to explain something and convince him or share with him , there must be some kind of community field. yes, something in common. yes, it is in general, but here it is somehow difficult, and it was such a logic, and this is actually all this political and personal ambition. eh, they generally fell on fertile ground. yes, at such an everyday level, people really did not understand, but it was possible, uh, after all, to talk, uh, about the fact that there is a common history, and they bought a non-provincial font, from which the whole church came out and a lot. another, but why this tragedy, because the church we are used to, you know, evaluate the church, er, in the logic of other human institutions. yes, there are corporations, there are even states, and they live according to their own logic. the church does not exist because some group of people got together and decided to

create it. yes, here the church works outside of this loki, we cannot search with you now. here we are sitting wonderful people there are operators and we will say, listen, something is somehow not very good in the church. there is one, not good. let's. we are all pretty good guys. let's build a beautiful church. here it will make you a head in the church, and all of these are all good guys visiting us. but any earthly logic can always do this, anywhere in the church it is impossible, because the church, according to christians, is based on the gods, and you can only join the church or fall away from it and tragedy the split is that people because of their ambitions, as i said, but because of some political aspirations. they decided on this one. the logic of church life is genuine, which is connected with god with the gospel with the beginning of christianity for two years, they decided to correct it according to their earthly standards , to make it better, but in fact not better. but in order for mine to be yes, let it be mine, but it is not mine, it is christ's anyway, and the tragedy is

that we will say, if we first recall the so -called kiev patriarchate. it was just people who are ordained, as it were, yes, that is, they were made a priest by a person who did not have an ecclesiastical right to do so. that is, they were just ordinary men dressed in church clothes. you see, the form does not make you a priest a priest. belonging to the church suits you. but , if you start going back to the nineties , then the so-called kiev patriarchate. yes , this is not a church. it's just a collection of people who are there to play some of their games, as far as the so-called. pc, that is, the same here the very story. this is the logic and initiative of the state. mr. poroshenko yes, who understood the opinion of a political step politically, he understood that in general, the rating is falling and you need to somehow pull it out. and here he is to her. this is thomas tour, remember, yes, great, when he traveled, he promised further, so, uh, the patriarch of constantinople has its own logic, its pressure, so to speak

, overseas, which, in general, in my opinion, no one really hides. is it absolutely written? yes, everything is open and the americans. he says yes we are support and so on. and interesting because they tried to explain to the very end. remember when patriarch kirill went to istanbul. and there were different voices here? someone opened your light, is that? well, why would you want to go? let's go to neutral territory, somehow that's worthless. so you told me to walk, i'll walk, i'll go anywhere, to explain to him? yes, because, and they were sure of what, and poroshenko, as i understand it, i assured. patriarch bartholomew that here you give a tos from the ukrainian orthodox church to everyone in front of the bishops they will pass, well, 80% minimum and so on two people two people after the notorious thomas a from among the large number of akhireis of the ukrainian church, then, despite the preparation of pressure. in the same place all the time so on the verge of breakdown. you know, there is such a sin of heresy and schism. yes, and why they say that a split is sometimes worse than it is, but firstly, it is more noticeable, because there is not some kind of

dogmatic doctrinal agreement, but a split. that's what the absence of grace means. here, if again translated but perhaps more slightly more understandable language means that the sacrament of the church is the ticking of baptism that they do not exist? well, because when uh a person is nothing more than gestures. yes, yes, it's just some kind of external action that resembles what is happening, and this is already a tragedy, because people really don't understand. they bring their children. there they get married there, as they think, but the church does not accept this. that is, it repeats. you can put on any clothes there, but it doesn't make you a person to belong to. that's why i put on someone's clothes, and this is a very serious question vladimir romanovich if we talk about today, then everything that is happening today in ukraine is a specifically military operation, the death of civilians in the military. e in russia perceive a huge number of people, as a personal tragedy? what is he praying for at this moment in these days. and the russian orthodox church, well, the church, and

in these moments and all these years, and from the fourteenth year until the fourteenth year, the church first of all prays for the unity of the church, because it is commanded. uh, by god himself and in the gospel it is the most important. well, speaking, again, in the modern language of value. which for the church is extremely essential and important is precisely the unity of spiritual understanding and respect, there are political interests and boundaries of everything else in the church, of course, prays for peace, because the gospel tells us directly the blessed peacemakers a. but of course we understand, and that it should be peace, that is, the resolution of some serious existing problems, and we understand perfectly well that, ah, if these difficult tragic events are on a large scale take several months, then they began much earlier and there are people who

lived for years, but in such inhuman conditions. you know me very well, i don't know how much this is needed, but i can't tell you about it. me. this is what shocked the situation of our bishopric on the head of the department for charity, when i first met with the refugees. right now in february, in my opinion, so what are we trying to help. it’s clear the church, like uh, all the people brought some toys, something else is going there and uh, girls gave a doll, and girls. i understand that she no longer remembers exactly how old she is, but she has already grown up. that's actually in the conditions of hostilities. and she keeps this doll there and says, you know, i don't need friends for dolls. here the church is now trying to warm people who have not seen the peaceful sky. they are not three months not 4 months are. they have been in this situation for years. and of course, here is our prayer for the true world,

which will try to untie these knots. and vladimirovich in the russian army has always been an institute military priests in soviet times, for obvious reasons, in a godless state, this institution could not exist, in principle. today he is recovering. what is the role of a priest in the army? well, i think there is a more understandable thing, but for everyone it is connected with the fact that a priest is very needed in any environment of situations where people are hmm well, at the limit of their capabilities. yes, in some extreme situation , and therefore, by the way, this is a common thing. what unites military priests, for example, there with hospital capitals, as we sometimes call them and priests, for example in places of detention to places of deprivation of liberty. yes, where people are, here is a kind of non-standard situation, but in everyday

psychological in emotional. eh, spiritually it's different. yes, there is another important point. eh, i heard about him eh, but from alexander khodokovsky. he said that since the war. this is a very serious test and a person manifests completely different qualities and far from the best ones. and a man who kills. well, let's say that. so it's a tough test. and so the people who are in a combat situation. we really need a priest who is able, maybe somehow to balance. here, among other things, is the hatred that will inevitably manifest itself in you in this situation, so it seems to me that this is the deep role of the priest to prevent dehumanization, which, unfortunately, is possible for well, it’s clear that not for everyone, yes, and i’m here i’m speaking from the outside, but i reacted with confidence to what i heard. i think this is very important. yes, of course, the war is serious

emotional psychological test, and here with a person who has experience a lot of experience for more than 8 years, of course, you can not argue here. we are with you. uh, they wanted to return to pressure on the russian orthodox church, the latest gesture of such pressure is the imposition of sanctions by the british authorities. it's some kind of personal grudge. uh, or is it some kind of, uh, act, well , some kind of interfaith relations. here. eh, something anyway. uh, it’s deeply religious and political. it’s just in the same logic, and that’s it, let’s ban the russian culture. let's impose sanctions on the patriarch while completely ignoring everything that the patriarch said about his real position, that is, an attempt to somehow format it. so he must do this, if he did not do this, then he is bad, and we will now impose sanctions on him. i'm not talking about what to contain. well, not absurd,

because what does it mean for some kind of patriak, can uh bring on a patriarch on a church? well, i don’t know, there it can only have an effect on the fact that there are our parishes in the uk, and now, i don’t fully understand. will does it have any repercussions for them uh, well, i mean let's hope not, but i said to hope it doesn't come to that, so here it's just uh hmm watch uh, and hope for leftovers. maybe some common sense persists. i may now ask a strange question from the point of view of the church economically. i'd like to know, now it's very turbulent. i am not a simple time when everything is changing in the world, it seems that everything will not be the same as before, huh. russian orthodox church - after all, this is primarily the post-soviet space, which has experienced such turbulence more than once recently. what is

the church talking about now with its pastor. here on this large space one-sixth. well, the church has been going through hard times since its inception 2,000 years ago. you have a lot of experience, yes, and in this sense, he is, as our colleagues say, unprecedented. although they often use this word where it should not be used, but in this case it is really difficult. and find more some kind of organization with an earthly structure, which has a comparable experience, and the church, from the moment it repeats its appearance, experienced difficult times. and so i think that, of course, the church, as always, she talks about the most important thing. it's not for nothing that we would not talk about today, after all, being in the political. yes, the agenda is involuntarily anyway, since we are talking about the church, we are talking about some fundamental things about the fact that people should remain people about what they should, and preserve what is deeply dear to them and

what makes them human. the patriarch was in vishnevsky's hospital a few days ago and they showed it. it could be seen. he talked to , uh, hmm, our wounded, who ended up there, but then we talked a little with him, here, and unconsciously without a camera, uh, and it was visible. what a great influence this visit to the hospital had on the most holy patriarch himself, and with some very deep feeling he spoke about this that it was very important for him look into the eyes of these people. and of course. uh, here's a church about it, but about something deep real. thank you so much. thank you for this very deep and meaningful conversation. thank you today, we all continue to follow the events and processes taking place in the post-soviet space of the territory, which, together with russia , still makes up 1/6 of the land.