how many are there? more than one of their cavalry will trample the rest. heart of parma soon hello this is a matter of science. i am alexey semikhatov. wherever we travel, we

worry about having water, we take water with us when we go to the desert, but there are places more serious than earthly deserts. this is the moon and mars and water, besides, the thing is heavy and it's quite expensive to carry it with you when we hear that water has been discovered on the moon. this probably does not mean that there are fountains. what is being done there? and how? we may be able to use water on the moon and mars. my guest is doctor of physics , mathematical sciences, head of the laboratory of neutron and gamma spectroscopy institute of space research of the russian academy of sciences professor of the russian academy of sciences maxim leonidovich litvak maxim leonidovich hello , thank you very much for taking the time to come to the studio. hello! thanks a lot. so what did you invite? we remotely open the water on the moon

, that's right, that's for sure. we don't touch it, we made sure. what is there somewhere you tell me, or rather, where is water or is it a hypothesis that needs to be tested. and maybe not everything is so great. no, water is definitely there. as you rightly said in the preamble , it is absolutely not in such quantities that we expect, as being here on earth a and b this water, as it were, needs to be used, but this will, as it were, have its own certain difficulties. now look, let's e let's, what is called the context, we will outline completely unearthly conditions on the moon. there is no water atmosphere. if i understand correctly, it can only be part of some breeds, and then

you need to take care that the rays that hit without any atmosphere somehow spoil it there, what they do there one moment e is not necessarily in the composition of the rocks, it can be just water ice. there can be water ice on the moon when comets, can there be water ice? i'll tell you more that, in principle, for a long time we considered that such places on the moon are on the plus side. uh-huh and now actually a plus. this is the most interesting place where everyone tends to have such craters, they start called eternally shaded craters, sunlight does not get there, the temperature is there, but it is not, as it were, close to absolute zero, well, relatively speaking, there, let's say, there are 40 there 60 or well, it is believed that comets comets well, as an example, we can take the comments of the comets that bombarded the surface of the moon and during the bombardment there is such a kind of temporary atmosphere is very rarefied, but nevertheless it arises. and now it is besieging and what is besieging

here in these craters. it stays there forever, so in a way they are seen as such pantries of the universes, because there is the material that the comets brought asteroids, which settled there, it is stored for billions of years. you said a lot at once. i'll try to digest the lunar poles highlighted by the fact that, uh, the sun shines almost in the plane of the lunar equator. and as a result, at the poles, the sun is always very low above the horizon, and moreover, there is a hole in the ground, well, it’s like a crater, so even when it shines close to the horizon, it simply doesn’t fall there and 2 m deep and there not on there. it needs it there definitely a natural place at the pole, but the hole there is not 2 m, a little more. that is, the direct ray of the direct sun never hit there, the first to say what i heard, and the second you said an important thing that when there was a comet bombardment and apparently on the earth,

then comets brought water. well, maybe they hit the moon now it doesn’t happen, of course, it’s not happening right now right now , that is, the comments got where they want, and in other places it’s the same snow snow ice is not remained, if you put ice on the surface of the moon, it will evaporate pretty quickly, the only option is to save it. it must either be a very low temperature, or it must be under the surface, that is, the top layer of the lunar soil. it, as it were, protects it, and it can also be stored there for a long time. when you said yourself 460 kelvins - this is minus 200 degrees in a simple way, well, in our opinion, but is it at night or in the dark or in the shade? and where the sun does not shine , where the sun does not shine. there's a temperature can exist all the time no matter, of course, the temperature, since the air. no, we are talking about the temperature of the surface, the temperature of the surface there, and when the sun shines, the same surface heats up. and if not exposed to sunlight

, it heats up quite quickly and the temperature. there goes beyond deep beyond the plus. now, if that is water, in the literal sense of the word, water, in the literal sense, cannot exist, but on an ordinary surface of the moon on an ordinary one, but it cannot exist day or night, that's because it on the surface of a celestial body that has no atmosphere, in my opinion, uh, such a critical temperature is 110 kelvins, ah 160 150%. is this the temperature at which evaporation is considered? it is so small that for the lifetime of our solar system. we don't seem to notice much of it. there, in my opinion, i already forgot there, or a millimeter. it evaporates there in a billion years. nevermind. in general, as if the value that ice will put here. but then it is quite enough at a temperature below 110, no matter how long it will be stored, we will notice it. here, if you rise higher, in my opinion, rise, even literally there by 10-20 degrees, then evaporation increases by

orders of magnitude. that is, we, as it were, the warmer we are, we immediately lose it, that is, when you could sit there, when you could sit there, and if the average temperature in the hospital is much higher than those 110 kelens, then in fact the ice will evaporate and we wo n't see it. and if we sit down, as i said somewhere in some territory. and where the temperature is much lower, like these craters, he can survive forever or, for example, he settled on the surface, which is illuminated by the sun, but e filter too, no matter how. and how to say, there is not instantaneous. uh, as if the bombardment of the surface can sprinkle it. yeah not to mention there 's a so-called micro meteor bolero that happens all the time it's like you're loosening the ground a little. you seem to be deepening in this way. and the further you go deeper. the more we isolate ourselves from the external

surface from external conditions, and uh, how would it the temperature will already become stable there, in my opinion, there is a penetration of a heat wave. here at the poles there are tens of centimeters on the moon. you can, as it were, dig in the ice, and it and it will be stored forever, then return there in a billion years to dig it out, except for these arguments. uh, what is there well, relative direct evidence, the presence of water mapping of water concentration, the amount of assessment, and so on, what we have, but i can say that we started with radar from the surface of the earth, we looked at the moon, because it is believed that it is possible, as it were, by a bright reflection, but to detect water ice. well, i can say that it was not confirmed. that is, they did not seem to find such places right off the bat. well, when you suddenly speak, then it means that i can say that, probably. the next cutoff - it was not a

throne spectroscopy of the moon, because neutron spectroscopy is the method that can, firstly, but look under the surface, because the sensitive layer. that's where we can look - half a meter, maybe even up to a meter, he comes. here are the neutrons. they neutron flux is very sensitive to water content. that is, if there is water, if there is water, then netrons simply slow down and we can see it well, because the moon is such a celestial body, well, we must understand that all celestial bodies in our solar system. they are dressed in a stream of charged particles, but these are cosmic galactic rays with the earth. everything is complicated with them, because we have, and the magnetic field of the atmosphere. here on the moon, everything is just there there is no more magnetic and there is no atmosphere, so they sharashut there, what is called in a straight line, and by- products is that they break the core of rock-forming elements. and

we can measure the apparatus around the moon that forms streams of fast neutrons. that is, you think that you do not have there, in the sense, there is such a light bulb under the surface of the moon that shines with neutrons. so if the moon were completely hmm, as if made of the same material - this is a light bulb, it would shine the same everywhere, but in some episodes you put a piece of ice over the light bulb. well, i exaggerate, yes, or some material, if it is more correct to say, of which there is a lot of hydrogen and these neutrons collided collided with hydrogen nuclei, they lose their energy on them, as it were, we see another spectrum engine a significant change in the neutron spectrum. the fact that water is a very cool retarder. here is and on this variability. we can they are not so many of these elements that such an effect is called. that's why this method was used, uh, the americans on the mission unor prospector, and did not fly overhead , they said, you know, we can say for sure. there is

decrease in the neutron signal and this decrease can be interpreted. uh, in the presence of hydrogen, that's right. well, most likely in the form of water ice, the decrease was very weak. they said that there are, as it were, two things, the first thing that it is distributed. e is heterogeneous local, that is, they again pressed on these craters, but they said yes, but we just have a signal that we collect from us e we can penetrate underground, but, unfortunately, we arranged for tronspectroscopy that our spatial the resolution is approximately there for such a conventional kalimir instrument comparable to the orbit. here, on which he flies, and it is, as it were, larger than the size of these craters. that is, yes, with the height of the orbit, it’s like, and therefore you’re like, here you don’t have such, as it were, light bulbs. you see, no one is smeared. well, at the same time, it still loses its intensity, because, well, it

is called, the key assistance was smeared, or there was even more. this was one of the key pieces of evidence. yes, they also said the second thing, well, it’s clear that if you talk like that, that comets were carried by. uh, water ice, anyway, it somehow mixes with the soil there, so its concentration itself is also not very large. that is, you need to understand that, relatively speaking, there in the ground, into which they just added ice in the pores, there you will have about 12 points 12%, there, if everything is lisa to pour, that is, in principle, by our standards , as if not very much. well, here, that is, it is not 100%, as it is a lot at the rink for the moon. why are we still not went down there and measured did not drill e did not have time means. well, if you go to funerals, then the next big mission. ah, as if the american one had already been launched for you, the

sorbitol iconas was launched in 2009 at that time , it was still like such a track was built, that you need to fly to the moon to build. there, as it were, to explore there to build lunar bases. in general, how to prepare to master the moon, unfortunately, this is a mission. she 's pretty fast. she flew off. she gave. i 'll even talk about it now. yes, she flew away and gave her result, but then, as it were, the process broke through, because politics interfered, and the president was replaced, that is, he came to power. barack obama and they changed the concept and said that you need to fly to mars. well, as it were, this is the work of technology. here is the mission. it was such a scientific engineering, that is, they were preparing to receive both scientific knowledge and at the same time understand where they could sit down. here and there were several devices and one of the devices, including ours, it was developed by our institute. it's called land a and here we are gone. we took into account the experience of the americans. we realized that we need

to reduce our field of view as much as possible in order to somehow distinguish, increase the resolution, yes , put, well, relatively speaking, put a collimator. that is, you sort of collect neutrons from a narrow corner from big corners. they do not come to you, because they are cut off with this collimator. this, of course, costs a lot, so the device immediately began to weigh about 30 kg, which, in general, is a lot for space technology, well, especially to feed. yes, yes, that's a lot for anyone there are a lot of devices, which have a lot of thresh, and that's a plus. there were a few more devices, that is, they put another radar there, there was an ultraviolet inspector. e, who could also look for, as it were, hydrogen e in the ultraviolet, but this is all the surface. that is, they, as if they could not look under the surface, everything that they can. you see here the top one, microns, as it were, that's the first thing we saw in our data. we realized that not all of these eternally shadowed craters are, as previously thought. water water what

some of them are dry at all uh-huh and some of them show signs that there is water ice, maybe, and if it’s like it’s somewhere e, it’s like it ’s, but these are also like this, not 100%, but the value there is like this like ten percent and the second interesting observation that we saw is that in fact this ice, it may not necessarily be in this crater, that is, if you look around, then under the surface of one of such, as it were, important achievements, this is actually, e is, among other things, practically in nature, that is, you you don't need to. it is to sit down deep in a hole. you can sit down, as it were, nearby and dig. let's say we did it. how are we going to mine, we just need to melt it. we need to bring some kind of smelter to put it in the sun and not let the water evaporate to find, as it were, by its kind, or deposits, in which there is some kind of

mishanina. here is this water ice or golit. this is probably the most convenient, because it’s like ice from there, and it’s like physical ice, that is, it’s not like this, you don’t need to criticize for this some great effort to evaporate it from there, and the next phase, as it were, can begin, when you want to decompose it, there it is into oxygen and hydrogen, because besides water, the astronauts. we also need hydrogen to fuel oxygen, in general, as it were, for various needs. that's why, from the point of view of the resource development of the moon, everyone is trying to find exactly water ice, because, as it were, they correctly said at the beginning of the program. well , bring it there, here it is needed. if you want to build some kind of long-lived base on the moon, you should be able to use local resources, but i’m afraid to ask, but can you drink this water, yes, will it? yes, yes, that is, here it is contact with the fact that on the

moon it is exposed to open space, uh, including water suitable for drinking inside the body, otherwise there would not be this whole concept to fly and use water for a long stay you will not be lucky to have an astronaut on the surface for no one to enter, because, in principle, people living there still consume a lot of water for people. i understand that there can be conditionally speaking say what it's like to drink to drink. let 's hold these lands well. all the rest are needed technical, but still, even in order to drink the water that you bring, it is still expensive, so you need to install a purification station. prepare this water. in the end, people from salt water receive kb - this is what i think that the issue is already such, as it were, solved. most. most importantly. the main thing is, in fact, and since i said that water, and it is either

in a hard-to-reach place, or it is from the point of view, as if the conditions there are shading radio communications, when you need to climb into a hole, or it is underground. it is necessary to dig and the most important question. uh, rack-mounting at the moment is like finding a place where the logistics for its production would be optimal not optimal. on mars, everything is much simpler than water. how would, well, tell me right away that there is no water to the fig. but here, that is, there are simply no problems with this, in general, but firstly in the polar regions. it just lies there and i'm like that, but including not thrones, just water ice and neutron and georadar. here, that is, starting somewhere here latitudes, well, i don’t know, there is 60 ° north 60 ° south latitude for you very much. hmm, the problem is not carbon dioxide. moreover, yes, already there

, many years ago, they specially planted the american phoenix mission in these polar latitudes to check what is called as ground is called, and you said here from orbit you said that there is ice here. well, let's we sat down and dug, they dug, dug up, ice, you still need to dig, yes they are, well, i can, so i'm not needed in the forests. yes they at the poles just a ladle. they took off the upper ones there, i don’t know, there are 5 cm, and they saw how the water ice would not look further, how it was already evaporating. that is, it was sprinkled, and as if from above, as it were. and when they took it off from him, the sun, evaporate at night , they saw it, that is, they confirmed it, as it were, ice ice, so at the poles, uh, there are no problems with this, another thing is that at the equator, e flight is a very long time history, because in different ways, as it were. and for research, if so theoretically it is, as it were, not close to surface cannot lie and cannot be close

to the surface. only somewhere very deep. here's the other side. e missions that flew. well, basically they are ground penetrating radars that can look somehow deep. they said that somewhere there at a depth of 16-20 m. they see such, as it were, a reflection of the signal, which can be explained in the absence of, as it were, relic water ice. here explains it very simply. well, how very simply they say that mars, unlike the earth, changed its inclination greatly during its life. well, i don’t want to say that he, as it were, lay on his side, but because of this, he, uh, in one place, the ice evaporated. well, that is, snow there, ice , another massage gave up, then it changed again. here, well, due to the fact that, relatively speaking, an avalanche could have come down there, something else, a trailer, and it could have been preserved there. here are such places. they found enough that you can judge that well, when you find a leg of different, how would such a statement is online, most likely you can believe it. look, it turns out, then it's enough

an obvious and excellent strategy we will learn we will practice on the moon and if everything works out, then you look at mars and we are learning, something, ah, from an engineering point of view, vk was interested. how massive the huge equipment is, you need to bring it there, so that i don’t know, there are 10 people living there, it’s not very clear. where, well where are you living. uh would be provided with water to some extent. now the most important thing is to find a place, yes, and everything that we now know about the moon, we know what exactly needs to be looked for at the poles or in the polar regions, so all this, yes, they strive and secondly, that from orbit we could not localize it accurately, that is, we know promising areas, then we need to specifically sit down, relatively speaking, look for digging there, so it is considered. i heard it in different assessments, well, about that, if like this some kind of soil was dug out there. the lunar soil is conditional if it contains about one percent by mass fraction of water water ice. consider this

already, how profitable, but you said up to twelve percent 12 - this is if everything is like this is an ideal case, when 1% is also very good too good what's there for our desert is also very good. this is considered as our desert is quite small, then there for comparison with our desert. by the way, how is it? well, in my opinion, in my opinion, our deserts. we always argue such estimates, how is the order there one percent name. as far as i understand it, it also strongly depends, as it were, on the particular place where you are. here, but here it becomes, as it were, practically realizable. that is, you can mine and use it. eh, if there is that's what they said, found. hey, just found it. i ’ll tell you, as it were, a couple of frost a couple of times, about no, so it’s still now, if we take the latest news. the chinese found it, the chinese found it, because this is a country that has successfully landed on the moon

lately. not russia, not the united states has not yet landed. although there are plans for our mission on the 25th. here it should, as it were, go to the polar latitudes to the polar yes to the polar because everyone will fly to the polar chinese. they go in sequence and they as if repeating the achievements of previous countries. well , that is, as if the soviet union and the united states and they sat down, uh, on the equatorial regions. well , relatively speaking, we are to the equatorial, that is, these sea areas. and the main goal, in fact, was to look at volcanic rocks. find breeds that are the earliest. that's where they found it. e, in the composition of these rocks, bound water. this is chemically bound water in the composition of minerals, which, they believe , was delivered there in the process of volcanic activity to surfaces. these are not theirs, but super achievements or there, nakhodka yes, they watched it. yes, and they

assumed what it was, maybe the insarbites also saw some pieces where there are such, and volcanic rocks can be, but their merit is probably that they somehow took this piece from there and brought it and brought it yes, at the same time, it’s true hmm although articles published in good magazines are nations magazines well, not the first level, but theirs is like the second, that is, advances now communication, here, but how can i say this, come on, write me 100 years. on the one hand , they rely on the data of the spectrometer they looked at while sitting on the spacecraft, which was a landing one, which they measured a stone there and , it seems, as they saw the presence in the infrared spectrum , there are special features that can be interpreted. as relatively speaking, water or this hydroxyl group h that goes into the composition of minerals. here, they brought it. there's almost 2 kg in another article. they kind of talk a lot. it’s smooth that they took the soil, which

they brought. and it seems like. yes, there is such a mineral that can contain water and there are traces of this mineral that it contains about as much water. how much they saw on the moon these infrared spectrum. well, as if for what i bought this sell. what is called, well, attention was drawn to one moon and it was in the equatorial regions of these same seas, and moon 25 the moon flies on the pluses , it is 0.1 of them, it will fly. uh, it will be and she will be here. first polar expedition. it 's not quite a pole yet. uh-huh, as they say, you need performer act. but this is relatively speaking, the seventieth degree northern latitude. that is, in my opinion, this is, if, within the framework of arguing the land, this bom is latitude, murmansk or something like that. so , that is, it’s like the next step a and the phrase about chinese, well, it’s wrong to say about mineral water about bound water. it's really difficult, because you have to understand that if you take water that just pumped hmm well

, sort of pumped the soil and just heated up to 100 ° , the water will begin to evaporate in you to pump out the associated water in a crystal lattice of minerals. it is already necessary to heat up to 300°, that is, it is, as it were, different, and other efforts must be taken in general tears from apple energy. let's wait for the success of moon 25. i want to wish you successful clarifying observations. remote on the moon 25 have a good flight and discoveries, and to all of us, probably since we have taken up this task of smooth successful and interesting exploration of the moon thank you very much. big. thank you for thank you for your attention, goodbye.

always wondering where it all starts? now he will see everything. producers of good things want and the main thing. but it's best to check.

russia today is the main and final election day voting is taking place in 82 regions of the country in buryatia, mari el and the sverdlovsk region , elections of governors in six regions begin today new composition of legislative assemblies