hello this is a question of science. i am aleksey semikhatov for a long time it was believed that the solar system is practically exhausted by planets. it turned out that at a distance of ten, if not hundreds of times greater than the distance to the last large planet, there is a whole world, relatively small stone and icy bodies that live there according to their own laws and, in general, are quite isolated from what is happening in the rest of the world. solar system. what,

nevertheless, these small bodies are able to tell us about the structure of the solar system, about its evolution to the present state, and about what is happening here in our inner part near the earth. i'm visiting. today, he is a junior employee of the department of space dynamics and mathematical information processing of the institute of space research. academy of sciences laureate of the award of the international committee for space research for outstanding articles of young scientists vladislav alexandrovich zubkov vladislav alexandrovich hello , thank you very much for taking the time to come to studio. hello aleksandrovich for neptunism - this is a relatively recent,

correct me, relatively recently discovered world, consisting of i don’t know tens of hundreds of documented bodies. uh, relatively small bad. apparently, they are difficult to study. m-m distant weakly sanctified, but, nevertheless. we know something about them. how many of them and when they appeared in our firmament the amazing world of transformational objects is known to us, but relatively recently, however, recently. it 's famous because it was discovered, uh, recently. with the help of our modern e-means, the actual detection of space objects. i'm talking about telescopes, but hypotheses of the hypothesis that neptune is not the edge of the uh visible solar system, uh, and is not , so to speak, the border beyond it. there are still , they were conducted at the beginning of the 20th century, that is, still percival lowell, in fact, the basis of his

observatory in arizona. even there, at the very beginning in the first half of the 20th century, even in the first quarter of the 20th century, he tried to find the ninth planet. that is, he tried to find, so another planet, because. eh, how do you know? and as you know, for example, neptune was also found by deviations e in the orbit of uranus and e, deviations in the orbit were found in the orbit of neptune determined at that time and the need actually arose. eh, look for another planet plato when i studied astronomy pluto was considered a planet, and then it was demoted to a dwarf planet precisely because they discovered many similar ones, yes. yes exactly. uh, since pluto was discovered first, then it was discovered in 1976, uh, satellite charon a, then in the ninety-second amazing opening javy tv er, open. e. another object in size. it was, of course, smaller than pluto, but it was

about the same distance as pluto - this is the first transflected object. e after pluto albion, in fact, after it, e, a series of e discoveries follows, but these discoveries are naturally preceded by some theory, and the theory was put forward back in the forties and fifties by two people separately. this is ken this is edward and uh actually uh kuiper whose name was called such a theoretical e. the area behind neptune, in which, as it were, it was assumed that there were many, many icy bodies, and why did they bother with this theory at all. uh, because there was a need to explain about the actual source and the source. e, the primary source of short-period comets that is, where they come from, it is known that a comet does not show its commentary properties until it crosses a certain line means snow and e, becomes a comet and approaches the sun e.

it is because of this that the theory was put forward. uh the assumption that somewhere there is beyond the orbit of neptune e, that is, at a distance of more than 30 astronomical units, it is located, and the belt and bodies from this belt are the sources of the comet. this, of course, has been proven to be an amazing thing. you say the amazing thing that they were looking for. in what sense are the targets directed they were discovered as soon as the means of observation allowed them to be discovered. yes , if these funds were allowed earlier, then they were looking for them earlier. and so, as soon as they could, they saw them. eh, well, to some extent yes, that is, they opened, then a certain such interval followed until about two in 2003 in 2003 they open, well, the fourth fifth sixth gradually. uh, michael browns, so with colleagues, uh, and in general , a succession of objects are being opened in avataria in hawaii. eh, and you could even forget about all these objects, if not for one, but it opens up and views, in my opinion, if i'm not

mistaken, this is 2005, irida in its size. we are in no way inferior. oh pluto. it even exceeds pluto in diameter and in mass, but er, since pluto is a satellite, then together with charon, they form a binary system. uh, from uh such a dual system of bodies, which means, uh, because of which pluto is still, according to the plato charon systems, in mass more than yes , but it opens and yes, and uh, respectively, the sixth year when the international astronomical union finally determines what, generally speaking, is considered a planet and is safely deleted from there due to the definition of a planet. uh, pluto pluto is now more comfortable living among their own kind, they feel terribly small in a row, uh, real real big planets, not even just terribly small, but to have such an unusual orbit and not be able to. yes , no, well, pluto, after all, its main difference is such a strongly elongated orbit, moreover , it is strongly inclined to criticism, that is, about

15 °, uh, if i'm not mistaken, but the slope of e, and which significantly differs from other planets that have it is the clown who is much less eccentric, there he is closer, like an elixir. let's look at the picture and at the same time remember that they have rather strange names shown here. uh, comparing these sizes of these objects in comparison to the ground. here the earth here is actually not without reason so shown, that is, it is clear that e even the same pluto it is in size, all of these objects, they are even close in size, they come close to the earth. that is, the same pluto is some hundredths of a percentage of the total earth mass. and as for the names, here, uh, a rather simple answer, that is, names were assigned. mostly. this is, uh, the names of ancient greek deities, well, of course. pluto is far dark cold, respectively, pluto uh, that is,

such an ancient greek god, uh, death is there, and then greek greek mythology was not enough, but uh, not just because it was not enough, and the irida of mathematics, uh and haume. uh, as far as i remember, uh, it's a habit to call uh, the planets according to the mythology of the area where they were discovered, that is, uh, they were discovered, uh, brown, which means the team uh, uh, hawaiian observatory, uh and, accordingly, from this mythology and migrated to in the name of these planets. uh, small planets lived where now there is an observatory. uh yes, surprisingly they now fly at distances of hundreds of astronomical units from us uh from the sun, but here uh, sedna immediately stands out. e, which e is not named after. e, means indian or there e hawaiian deities, a and e,

her name is taken. uh, po uh, completely from uh, such is the eskimo mythology. yes, but it was done again for a reason. uh, due to the fact that the saddle found e at about 84 astronomical units, that is, much further. what are eris. pluto math hill, uh, and so on, and of the known objects at that time, it was, uh, at that time the most distant trans-neptune body discovered before the last discovery. and with something there, astronomical units, and such a name was given, because there, well, practically. uh, so the temperature is close to zero kelvin there. well, that is, so it's very cold there. and tell me, please, which means how far they go. maybe we can look at their orbits in some way to get an idea of ​​how far they are. are pushing the boundaries of the solar system, in

a way. here. eh, very good. it is seen. shown here. uh, means the orbits of some. uh, out of trance nobody new bodies. the so -called extreme trance, nobody new objects. that is, what number are those objects with large flesh, that is, the average diameter of the orbit, uh, exceeds uh, 150 of the thermal units are extreme. and please, tell me, uh. earth orbit earth this is approximately points. almost a pixel, in the very center, that is this is a distance that looks quite nastic in relation to the fact that perhaps we will have time to discuss it in relation to what we are able to get to, it is necessary to understand that the period is one here, even the smallest. uh, the smallest such ellis is several thousand e years, but the largest one shown in green, for example, is tens of thousands of years, that

is, maybe several tens of thousands of years. e. in my opinion, the largest period is about a hundred thousand years. uh, that is, these orbits are, of course, the result of a mathematical calculation for roughly three points, when we found them, and that means we know what orbits are and this probably means that somewhere far away there are still other bodies that are now far away, which we just don't see. uh, there is more than enough right there, and theoretically it was just again done back in the fifties, the ord suggested that at a distance of 50 e 1,000 astronomical units, that is, it is known that, for example, the heliosphere is 120 there astronomical units to the shock front waves from the sun. yes 120. yes, but uh, this is not the boundary e of the attraction of the solar system, that is, the solar system attracts about 100,000 astronomical units of the body , and uh, the ord first suggested that

it means that it is possible that at the boundary? starting there i don't know the kuiper belt, there are 50 pages, not from up to uh border to 100 astronomical units. uh, there are many, many small, uh, icy celestial bodies, which, due to some collisions between themselves or in the influence of other stars, periodically the orbits begin to deviate from their e, the orbit and approach the sun and these are the sources of comets. yes , long periodic so-called comets . please tell me, but hmm, the main classes of orbits are for stupid bodies. what teaches us and how, if i understand correctly, some of them tell us the existence of planet nine orbits of extreme trans-neptune objects. e, they are quite unusually located, that is, they were redistributed by the distance e, from e, which means the points are the distance to the nearest point, and the orbits are from the

sun, and they are concentrated approximately. in one e in one area and at the same time the same orbits e have e, well, almost all of these orbits have an inclination of more than 50 °, which, well, cannot be. explained, e by the influence of gravitational influence. neptune, some additional force must have pulled them out of the cliptic plane. uh. yes, exactly such a study was conducted by e michael brown and konstantin batyn. i mean, they showed, well, in this, uh, simplest simulation example, that neptune's gravitational influence couldn't cause it. e, such big inclinations. well and, especially, could not lead to such accumulation. eh, a cluster of overeats of one like this. e areas, that is, that the peregeries are all approximately in the same area. this is unnatural, because there was nothing. they would have been for the lifetime of the solar system. yes, the

baty genes would have dispersed 360 ° and, uh, michael brown, uh, at the expense of here. modeling uh of these extreme transmipunian objects uh, showed that it is possible, uh, that such an unusual uh arrangement of overelias and inclinations uh, is caused by the influence some uh big uh, fairly massive planet. at first it was assumed there that it was almost the size, there is more of a supermassive giant than there is jupiter, but then its mass was sharply reduced in the simulation, because when reviewing the sky, in those areas that, uh, were highlighted scientists. couldn't find it there. uh, an object the size of saturn, that is, we have five earths 5-10 masses of the earth. yes there, that is, yes, something like that, uh, so then it was reduced to about. well, the size of the ground. uh, it should be here such a planet and even theories have been put forward,

er, that could explain the appearance of such a planet, here. uh, on the slide she shows ten times farther than neptune and where she got a big planet from there. uh, yes , actually, they, uh, in general, proposed several theories explaining how, uh, such a planet could form and how it, most importantly, could go to such an orbit uh, to such an unusual orbit uh, the first one is uh . the planet formed the ninth planet formed where it formed. uh, that is, uh, very far away. uh, in progress evolution of the solar system. that is. well, somehow i myself cannot fully say that i understand this mechanism. e, due to which it could form, there is also little building material. yes quite right, but others have been proposed by them. and the explanations that are in my opinion. eh, somehow i understand them more, and this is the formation of the ninth planet. well, at the site of the ninth planet

, approximately in the same place where not saturn and uranus formed, but then as a result of some event, for example, the rapprochement of a star, the ninth planet was simply ejected from e, others eight planets, actually, either this planet could have been, uh, simply captured by the solar system and from another wanderer. yes. uh, that is, when passing through the solar system with such a planet. she was just taken away by her gravity. for example, two questions, i can't just keep silent. uh, your feelings about it in the next 5 years have found out whether or not directly yes or no your feelings, and no, no, but within five years, maybe okay, and the second is the areas. this seems to be interesting enough. and though infinitely distant to our standards. we have no chance of

flying there. e voyger was not even a request. to study transection bodies, because no one suspected their existence at the time of its launch. but if we want to fly there now, then why should we wait 50-70 100 years until we get there. uh. well, not necessarily. uh, because we have a universal known since the beginning of time. uh, voyger is a way to increase the heliocentric speed of the spacecraft, without spending precious, so to speak, and or not very fuel, huh? it's gravitational manners. that is, if but at the same time it is necessary, uh, to note that voyager has uh and a pioneer. well, basically voyager and the first and second ones were significantly lucky to have a good planetary configuration. uh, that is, the planets were lined up in such a way as their span. e, gave, uh, an extremely good increase in e speed,

that is, such an impulse, and due to what, and they e acquired e, at a speed sufficient to get e away from the e gravity of the sun, that is, enter the hyperbolic orbit uh, there is some kind of a slightly different concept that er, suggests that it is possible not to do count maneuvers. well, it’s more accurate to make 1,2 e, but e, due to these maneuvers, graf does not immediately fly away, e, somewhere outside the solar system. on the contrary, to fly up to the sun why is there such an effect, e in mechanics, e, which says that the impulse given by e, near e of the central body, in the pericenter is optimal for changing the orbital energy? yes, and apply the usual effect is applied in count maneuvers. that is, there you can at the expense. uh, you can not just fly

over the planet, but in front of the center in the neighborhood. uh, in front of the centers of the hyperbola, which are now formed as a result of the flight. eh, the planets give out, uh, a small-big impulse was quite small compared to the launch speed, and then it is possible to significantly increase the exit speed, where you are already the fastest . fly with a large body at the moment of the most equipment you give gas, and then it throws you very far. you suggest the sun to use for well suggested e not me. it was a whole study. uh, it was carried out in us under the auspices of nasa uh and concerned uh trying to get to, uh, 1,000 astronomical units in, well, about 50 years there. here in the figure it is shown e picture, that is, it was proposed to approach three solar radii approximately to give there 10 km / s from to e, the food of astronomical units. here in particular the constellation and denmark

fly away. uh, fly in 50 years. that is, at the same time, yes, uh, yes, but here we must remember that such an impulse, firstly, can be obtained uh exclusively. if applied. uh, almost liquid hydrogen in its pure form, uh, that is, it even has to be some kind of engine, which, when approached by the sun. and so to speak, e will release all the hydrogen and, uh, we will get a sufficient conversion in speed. a. secondly, you need to get very close to the sun, that is, three soldiers are twice as close as parker is planning now or has already flown, uh, and uh, respectively, and you need to fly to an area that, uh, is extremely different from the area of ​​the sun, that is, there are temperature differences . by the way, first we fly cotton wool, then e in such a harvest only cold cold, and therefore, all the same, e, the most optimal e, appears e. the use of the same

count manners, but in some such e. improved, if i may say so schemes, that is, if voyager or directly to jupiter, for example, immediately left, then the solar system is flying by jupiter e, saturn and so on, and volume, e, for example, you can use e, gravity maneuvers. have e the same venus and the earth in order to fly to e jupiter and thereby reduce the characteristic speed and fly to no more than e, 20-30 years. uh, with the same momentum that the vointer flew to fly to uh, to fly to about 80 astronomical enu, yes, and in particular, uh, which are here at eighty astronomical units. now tell me what you are doing, she flies away from us, flies further. what are you doing. these are the

next 50 years. what will she do, and the next 50 years, because it is worth paying attention here that the period of the sde is 10.000. uh, even almost 12,000 years. that is, it is the next 50 years. eh, it can be quite calmly considered a fixed point for such. eh, even i would say indicative well, in fact, it will move, of course, but it will not move much, there on 5-6 pages of units, compared to the position where it is now, so the setna, one might say, will sit and wait for you , and here this is how you propose. yes? uh, ours. uh, well mois-calculations with colleagues. e, they showed that it is possible to fly to the middle one. uh, here's a trans-neptunian object there with a diameter of 1.000. uh kilometers, you can fly for relatively little money. uh, in terms of fuel consumption. naturally. eh, that is, in terms of costs. is it

half as much as uh, half as much as uh? uh, the cost of vodgers for uh over the same few decades. yes, this is mainly achieved due to the currently known uh, flight pattern, uh, including uh, maneuvers near venus and earth, that is, venus and earth help to fly to jupiter and jupiter already uh and neptune are doing their job, summing up the results, how would you try to say as succinctly as possible this one for the neptune world is important and interesting to us why because it is like this because we can, looking at it , find out that uh, well, here uh, it should be said that such an unambiguous answer is the one and only. uh, i can't give, but i can give a few. it's answering one question, a

first. eh, this is the neptune world. e. this is, as i said, and due to the fact that it is a source of short-period and long-period comets - this is first of all. uh, it is essential for near- earth safety issues, that is, for issues of asteroid hazard hazard, because we need to know at what point at we will fly bomb bombardment. comet secondly, the e transptunian world is a place that is practically unchanged. e, preserved from the time of the formation of the solar system with the stage of a protoplanetary disk. eh, then there are the same questions. uh, this late uh commentary bombardment, uh, that happened already there millions of years after the formation of uh, the planets uh, and so on. that is, these are all the questions that this is such a museum a little bit. yes we are here the solar museum of the earlier solar system. e yes, while

e, it should be noted that e since all these they are composed of bodies. a lot of these volatiles in that frozen state like this, uh, and uh, consist of ice there, uh, on some of them. well, really, really, really deep, honestly deeper than uh. it has been found on satellites. uh, these annas of liquid water may be present. particularly at the same price. it was also e, the researchers showed that it could theoretically exist at a depth. there are so many kilometers there is a small layer, uh, 20 km, uh, of the salty ocean, but well, what do i wish you , uh, success in studying because of nevtunshchina this an integral, as it turned out, part of the solar system is important, including for our existence and, perhaps, a successful flight to it. thank you very much.

thanks for your interesting story. all the best, goodbye.

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