hello this is a question of science. i am aleksey semehav, our modern civilization is absolutely impossible without oil, oil products around us are quite diverse, and the process of oil refining does not in all cases end with its burning. and what awaits us in the future? how our relationship with this most important resource, oil, will evolve in a world that we want to see and want to make more and more green. my guest today is doctor of chemistry, professor of the faculty of chemistry of the moscow state university and director of the institute of petrochemical synthesis named after topcha in the russian academy of sciences corresponding member of the russian academy of sciences anton lvovich maksimov anton lvovich hello , thank you very much for taking the time to come to the studio. hello, thanks for inviting me. oil,

of course, for me, for example, is associated primarily with fuel. and this is understandable. can you please say that, besides fuel, what around us has oil as its initial raw material. you know sometime sometime very bad wine they said it was wine made from oil. i think it's still not the case. and that's what, nevertheless, from the oil around us. in fact, the vast majority of organic materials around us are from oil, that is, those materials that contain carbons and your pen, and in fact, i suspect that part of your jacket and microphone all this somehow has an origin from oil. but

the fact is that only a very small part of the oil. now it is processed into these products into petrochemical products, even in developed countries it is somewhere around 15%. they are bigger. it's good if it's 10. and it's so good if it's 10. yeah, you know, given what you said , looking around, i can poke at a few things made of oil. and this is good. if 10%. it somehow gives me a good perspective on how much the hell oil is burned , up to 90% of the oil that is produced in the world is burned, and we are witnessing the moment when the very ideology of using oil is changing. do you really think that the percentage of oil burned. right now, right now, in the coming years, it will begin to noticeably decrease. yes he will gradually reduce. first, we have made

very great progress. in electric vehicles. electricity for movement is more efficient than using traditional internal combustion engines, and you can ask, or you can ask electricity is already generated at a power plant, and we burn it there, yes, but the efficiency of a modern power plant is even thermal, operating in a gas cycle. it's somewhere around 55, maybe 60%. uh-huh and the efficiency of an engine running on diesel fuel does not even approach 50, and on gasoline it is even significantly less, so it turns out that even if we take into account the loss of electricity in this feasting transport , it can turn out to be much more efficient especially where we live in a big city. uh-huh when we use personal transport for good reason. we have appeared e, on the streets of moscow or electro and gradually. i think next 10 years hmm

will start to change. the very nature of the car park that we use, electric cars will appear there as the main means of transportation is excellent in terms of oil, which we are concerned about today, this means that the demand for raw materials, which we supposedly have in abundance, which is plentiful and which would be good to use somehow. well , either it will fall, or you will probably say that we need to invent some other applications for what we extract. well, the number of uh people who want to move will grow, so the demand is more likely to stay a little uh permanently. well, it will go somewhere in 2050 , it will be final, but this means that we must. remember the famous phrase dmitry ivanovich mendeleev that drowning with oil is drowning about the signaling, which we

talked about, at the very beginning we did nothing. we used to drown with coal, yes, the amount of coal that we now burn is decreasing. and this one is primarily oil. now it starts no, well, what do we want to turn the produced oil into, but into all those organic chemical products that chemical enterprises produce. and now there are huge in size in comparison with the traditional petrochemical enterprises of the plant, which already process 40-50% of oil into chemical products, which are further usually converted into polymers, materials, paint fibers, overlays, active substances, and so on and so on and so on. explain, please, you say that so many percent are processed there. this means that they do the rest with the rest while processing the rest into fuel. yes, they are the same enterprises, but the next

stage of development here is when our families are sleeping. and i think in 15-20 years and 90% of the oil will be converted into these products. this means that now we would like to, but we can’t now 40, which is oil, but in fact it is a very complex mixture of carbohydrates with different molecular weight means with different boiling points, yes , as a rule, we turn into chemical products easy part. but with the heavy part, mm, not everything just needs a visual mass there, a couple of hundred thousand 2.000, that is , uh, we actually learned how to turn a fraction in which a molecular weight is somewhere up to 400-500, but the rest into light hydrocarbons, which we

used petrochemistry turns with difficulty here too, but it is necessary to come up with processes that, because they made it possible to obtain basic petrochemical products, heavy parts of oil, that is, an excess of carbon, that is , an excess of carbon, so you and i must come up with a process that would add oil, hydrogen to this - once, and the second would cut this molecules in such a way as to obtain a. raw materials for the production of oil chemical products, because everything that it is all petrochemicals, at best, well, with the exception of active substances, is on molecules with an hour of carbon atoms of eight to ten eight and below in fact, that is, here the larger molecules encountered are used, mostly rare. well, either there is simply a problem of cutting them, that is, the problem of the cutters on what we want to get. here's what's going on. both

problems the first one just cut potentially is a problem. now it is already being solved with the help of processes of deep processing of oil residues of the words deep processing. this means, yes, the word deep persian means that we are the heaviest part of the oil, which, but i don't know. you must have seen tar on the streets sometime, these hard strange ones. yeah, it’s very good, in fact, that there is a very heavy part of the oil, tar, that boils away at temperatures above 560 ° c, having received this wide fraction of carbohydrates, and it would be nice to learn how to cut the second part in such a way as to immediately receive these to carbon and four hydrogen atoms , and from it we already get polina packages. ah, the corresponding polyethylene-based materials and so on. if you and i learn how to convert oil efficiently and without

very high costs. here in these small molecules. in the end, almost all of it will go to the petrochemistry, now there are such problems, and now they are forced to put it where to put it very briefly. this heavy oil is not heavy oil. anyway, partly it turns into fuel, and partly, instead of adding hydrogen, we do it easier, we take hydrogen from it with a small amount of carbon and get what is called a baby doll. and this course, uh, as a rule , burns out the expression carbon carbon footprint, different, in fact. there are many other problems related to the fact that in fact not only contains carbon, but in developed countries, such as the united states, up to half of anapa is obtained directly from oil. yes, great. that is, it is also a resource. but if we are molecules and isolate the lungs from it, this is this small remnant that will remain. we from it

will be easier for us from it. and this problem is undoubtedly recognized and it is difficult to imagine that in the oil-related area there would not be enough in the desire backed by money. e these problems to solve or the problem turns out to be scientific technological or partly political, i'm not afraid of this word. i think they're more scientific technological, and what's the scientific problem the scientific problem is that you have to uh learn how to selectively break down these molecules which are large in themselves and the methods that we normally use to break down these large molecules . they are inefficient, traditional catalysts, which are not processed, process various fractions of oil. if you speak correctly. they have a size that is such porous materials with a very small size. well, let's say one nanometer two nanometers wave per meter the size of this

molecule is already a few moments, which is heavy, which allows us. and as a result, if we try to do it by traditional methods. it's possible to try. it will be very expensive. ok then, frizz will be effective and clog those pores. well, we don't really know, do we? or we think, of course, we want to know what kind of catalysts we want to start the reaction , but now dispersed catalysts are used here, that is , catalysts that have a size that is actually comparable to the size of these molecules, that is, the catalyst acts as a kind of microorganism microorganism. it interacts with molecules and tries to destroy it. and it is possible that such processes already exist, they are being implemented and become part of oil technologies. petrochemistry, and, if not catalytic processes, when using a certain chemical reaction, you can

try to get very high yields of tech millions of the lightest of them are also actively involved in this. studying the reaction mechanisms at different temperatures, adding oxidizing agents, some special compounds were added. everybody is here. this is a very large area of ​​chemistry, which is open somewhere, somewhere closed the question, because getting good results in this area means getting a significant profit. and this means that some scientific and technological solutions. they become the property of a wide range of scientists only after they are implemented in industry. this is your student. they start listening from there, from now on they listen to your lectures, especially attentively. and tell me, please, at the same time, when we uh, come up with

catalysts. we need some more heat to heat up in order to carry out the reaction. we very often need additional energy and traditionally. you and i receive the energy of burning. we have yes already in this factory. no, let's light the part. yes, there are 7-8%, yet yeah, sometimes more sometimes less. it depends on the process, but let's throw out the dioxide carbon efficiency. well, not 100% at all, so we understand, it's not all the energy used as a result of refining oil has one more carbon directly when it turns into a dead end, because at first it sounded like, yes, now we are burning. great , we want to get rid of burning. uh, in a couple of decades. everything will be much more interesting, we will process more. and here you are again, not we'll still burn quite a lot in order for the recycled people, yes and uh, the second answer to

this question. he uh actually started arise about 15 years ago and when it became clear that the energy balance would change from heat and electricity. now for the energy supply. we must use electricity. it can be just heating a reactor or a catalyst in a special way, and it can be processes using electricity, electrochemical or chemical. that is, where the electrons that are supplied are already directly involved in activations. this is a huge area. now developing and how fundamental research and forms of applied research already and it is already a question of what will apparently appear technology, well, with electrical heating. they have already appeared. there are several technologies where it is already

stated that there is heating by a reactor using electricity, and i think that electrochemical technologies will appear in the near future than, for example, high-temperature or carbon dioxide electrolysis for omon oxide and oxygen. this is a real process that is now going to be launched in the us by one of the major recycling companies, when you actually make a certain prediction about what technologies are about to appear, you do it on the basis of what, on the basis of the fact that something similar that is not fully completed can be done in the laboratory, it may be industrially unprofitable, but it will become industrially profitable and will it become technology, or what? how are you doing? this type of prediction the first thing i look at is i understand that we see the energy balance with heat electricity will change the side of electricity, and in science very often problems appear due to the fact that something has changed around us, a new version of the problem appeared,

which we had not solved completely before, perhaps our knowledge allowed fundamental regimes. well, there was no need, so let's say, the organic electrochemistry industry developed quite a lot of time. well, in general it seemed that it was not profitable. it's not interesting to burn it easier, and now it turns out that not quite, and and of course, a huge amount of work on awnings that are associated with the use of electricity to carry out chemical reactions. it gradually starts uh, switch to some variants of these technologies. this, can be very interesting to our eyes. yes, i think that this, of course , is also a period of 10-20-25 years, well, the essence of these processes of decarbonization, which are called decarbonization, but in reality it’s just that they entail changes in the energy supply structure for us, and without energy we cannot live and, accordingly, as soon as we have a different structure of energy. we

must somehow adapt to this process, in some places somewhere in some electronic power plants, electricity already has a negative value in a certain period of time. these are whole problems for those who produce it, by the way, yes, their power plants are there, because the power plants must be loaded. and uh , if at this moment you have a station loaded with 40%, but in reality it is possible to produce twice as much electricity there at a generally not generally high price, then this is not very good. respectively. here, too, there are resources. and in fact, for a long time there was an idea that in general there should be stop electricity generation station should become a chemical generation station. with which it would be possible to sell it e spends on it and electricity and type and heat there were whole plans for the construction of such stations in the ussr at many chemical plants at several chemical enterprises, well, in the nineties. they moved a little aside now it did not work out. well, yes,

economic history at that moment somehow contributed to such a not-so-breakthrough project. i would say so. and now, uh , rusatom, in principle, uh, has begun to conduct work on composition in the oil refining market. well, basically gas chemistry. here, each option e is clear that this process was somewhere to learn how to create such a power plant, it takes 10 years, by the way, saying, please tell me about gas, i understand correctly that their birthplace is oil often, if not always correct me connected with gas, and there is still gas coming out, we use it somewhere , we usually use it somewhere for something good. yes, uh, when we produce oil, we produce some amount of gas, but this 2 3 4 5% is called the gas factor. yes. a by the way, when we extract gas, we call oil, which we call gas condensate, perfectly. it is necessary. this is just such

terminology, but the problem is that when we are extracting oil, if we have three percent by mass of some substance, the question is. it is for transporting it in some way, if it is a remote field, therefore, the problem of associated gas arises, either to burn it, or the second option that it uses, there is no company refused to flare, it is pumped directly back to identify oil. yes end up in reservoir yes identifies oil production. it dissolves allows you to lower the viscosity, increase its mobility, and increase the amount of oil you extract per unit of time. there must be a catch here, otherwise everyone would do it. americans, yes, it costs money in the first place, well , the americans do this with them 8% of gas, which in remote fields it ends up with infrastructure for pumping

gas, or you do everything else. now, if you have gazprom pipes nearby, for example, yes, then you are gas processing plants, because that in fact we are talking about gas, but there is gas in it. actually there uh-huh and this is one carbon atom, and there are two carbon atoms and propane-butane three four and uh, these hydrocarbons containing two three four atoms, they are released at these plants. and then it is used as petrochemistry and, uh, a number of countries, for example, the united states, but believes that this is the main raw material for petrochemistry, and not less use significantly more oil will give. well, for example, japan or europe use oil fractions a lot. we have traditionally used. lots of fractions of oil now. uh, we already have last 10 years. we are gradually increasing the share of this gas used for the production of petrochemical products, but we sell part of it, but many of our viewers traveling through the regions where

oil is produced will say, well, here it burns at night, it glows here, it glows there. well, it happens to be waste flares, but in fact, quite a lot already we take away the gas and process it and the sibur company, uh. this is its main facility gas processing plant. e, under construction in the far east and near the amur company amur enterprises. not sibur recycling it is a dedicated petrochemical gas. this is what we are going to emit from the gases that come up, that is, in fact, in the natural store. there are such gases that also need to be separated to produce this raw material and used for ah, obtaining petrochemical products , i have a question about how i would put it about am , the daily work of those who come up with. how to cut these molecules? how to organize the reaction? how to come up with a catalyst? what sort of activity

is it experimental activity or is it computer computing? uh, how is it well, despite the huge role of computer simulation modeling that science now has? yeah, chemistry is still the science of experiment. yes, these calculations, these models help us to our work controversial, the further, the more, but all the same , the experiment is, in any case , still the main thing. ah, our tool for creating new processes. well, to understand how this world works, because, of course, at the beginning we try to understand how it works, and then apply this knowledge in order to get something useful, in general, but very briefly in conclusion. uh, what would you like the most to happen in the next 10.

well, maybe 15 years. you somehow immediately throw yourself for a long time, 20 years. there until the fiftieth year, and 30 at 10:15 years old, so that you would like to see in the field that you are engaged in, which you are an expert, so that what happens in it what type of scientific achievements would become property. and maybe change our lives. let it be a little dream. well, i guess i would wanted us to learn how to convert methane efficiently. petrochemicals is the first opportunity using photoelectric power. this is the second solar battery, so that the solar battery converts methane, for example, methyl alcohol. yes, well, for example, for example, yes, well, and i would like the second part, so that we then learn how to do the same with

carbon dioxide, either it's a solar battery, or electricity, if we learn how to do it. we will have endless sources of carbon. well , because methane is actually insane. yes not only the one that we extract, well, methane in hydrates at the depth of the ocean. yes, and hmm in general, in fact, but hmm not open birthplaces. this is a huge resource. as for carbon dioxide, well, there's nothing to discuss here at all. this is the resource that we will always have with you oh yes. and this. eh, if there are several problems at once, yes, but in reality these are these technologies. they are what are now called interdisciplinary. i do not really like this word, but the essence here is the essence here, what is on the one hand. we must learn effectively recycle the energy of the sun uh-huh wind atom too somehow. in this case, in electricity, the second we have to use electricity for chemical

reactions. it's already chemistry. and there is a little bit of a lack of tachemistry, which people are used to learning how to get the products that we need, and in fact, these one carbon molecules along with the new energy, most likely. i think they will give some new quality to industrial chemistry. well, the fact that oil is now being turned on is petrochemistry, whatever you call it, gases chemistry, industrial organic synthesis - this is a new quality. this is a different production, a different science. which, well, it seems to me, is extremely attractive in the next 10-15 years there. we look forward to an interdisciplinary energy renaissance that will hopefully change our lives. thank you very much. best wishes. goodbye.

vsu, struck at the settlements of donbass, most of the shelling of the last hours fell on donetsk in the capital of the dpr , in the evening, they opened fire in the dead of night. six times released 24 large-caliber projectile from nato cannon guns with the same weapon, the militants fired at yakovlevka and esinovataya, and hit ilovaisk from american systems in a volley. fire highmars. seven rocket explosions were counted in the city, the average destruction and possible victims are now being specified. in the lugansk people's republic at this moment , doctors are fighting for the lives and health of the wounded during the shelling of a hospital in novoidar, 24 were injured, another 14 people were killed the russian ministry of defense called it a grave war crime, those involved in it will be found and