hello this is a question of science. i am aleksey semikhatov, the greenest for some and the most controversial for others, a way to extract energy in a useful form for us controlled thermonuclear fusion after decades of complex history. what are the grounds for optimism regarding this new fundamentally non-hydrocarbon energy with an almost inexhaustible source of fuel literally around us today, my guest is doctor of physics (mathematics), director of a private institution of the state corporation rosatom design center. ir anatoly viktorovich

krasilnikov hello, thank you very much for taking the time to come to the studio. hello alexey about the processes of energy release they often say how burnout, the sun burns, the fire burns. this is a different combustion. uh, in the fire, chemical bonds are disconnected in the sun, on the contrary, connection , that is, synthesis, and at the level of atomic nuclei, which we want to do in controlled thermonuclear fusion. well, i wanted to first say that all types of energy that we somehow consume today on earth are a redistribution of thermonuclear energy, that is, it is this energy comes in the form of thermoelement energy from the sun further flowing rivers pour. eh, rain. uh, the wind is blowing, it will all remake

the fusion energy of the sun. in this sense. today, humanity is basking in the redistribution of thermonuclear energy, but humanity wants to receive directly thermonuclear energy , directly control this particular method of energy generation, what you said about the fire and the sun, there really are chemical bonds that in the case of combustion. uh, hmm they are converted into energy relatively weak and much stronger bonds within the nucleus, therefore, if you have learned, e, the binding energy of the nucleus, to transform it into a convenient for you, e, the energy redistribution is simply more a small scale in relation to simply spatial distances and we get a concentrated higher energy there, as it is arranged in life, of course. yes. eh, everyone knows

einstein's formula e=mc². and uh, what is u based on thermal energy is based on the fact that as a result of the fusion of two e, the so-called initial atoms, you get products with a lower total mass, and here is this mass defect. this is the delta of mass from the outcome between the initial atoms and products turns into energy, the only explanatory moment. eh, here. e, controlled thermonuclear fusion, that is, a type of reactor, which is still a dream and for the sake of realization, which many , including you, are working on. and how does it differ from the howling e, numerous in different places on planet of nuclear reactors that we know, that we hear about. so i have already started talking about the fact that any nuclear power industry is based on the fact that we are converting mass into

energy. uh, it turns out hmm the periodic table of elements is arranged so that when fissioning elements with high z for example, uranium for example, plutonium at the end of the table at the end of the table. it turns out their fragments, which are in the middle of the table, a and they have e, the total mass, turns out to be lower than a mass of uranus of the initial fission. this difference in mass translates with energy the same fortunately and at the beginning of the table, if we use divisions for a large mass, then at the beginning of the table for elements such as the hydrogen of children, and e, when the nuclei merge, the mass of the products turns out to be less than the mass of the original atoms. that is, you can no longer use division, but fusion to obtain energy. and if we take the far part of the table, then we need to divide that getting energy and one proton is much

more profitable than synthesis at the beginning, then if we learn how to effectively implement this synthesis, then we will have a very intense source. we can say that we we want to light a little sun at home only with a faucet with a regulator, of course, the sun. uh, gravity confinement methods. it has a huge mass and it just holds the plasma for a very long time. we see the sun is burning and will continue to burn for billions of years, and er, it means gravitational retention and there is a thermonuclear fusion reaction taking place on earth. unfortunately, we cannot say an object of such a mass that it will turn out to be gravitationally itself, the sun, the sun will turn out, everything will burn out, eh. therefore, we must come up with some other way to keep. the fact is that the plasma temperature must be for effective synthesis. on a scale of 300 million dollars, not a single material wall is capable of holding such temperatures, so it was necessary to come up with another non-material wall, and

this is the merit of soviet scientists. uh, sakharovo, and there they offered. this magnetic confinement is the confinement of plasma in a magnetic field . the magnetic field does not allow this very plasma that we create in our installations to scatter. that's why we call it magnetic hold for a second, we'll see. what reaction we want to implement within the framework. these here are virtual non-material, and magnetic walls e in the figure in fact . there are several options for such reactions, which means that as a result of the synthesis of deuterium , a thermoid is generated. that's what's going on, about what's going on in the sun, there 's got to be a hydrogen cycle first, uh with different elements in different stages first and with itself from the lighter elements. there in the sun is an endless time of thermonuclear burning, so there is time here for hydrogen efficiently. uh, here heavier, uh, heavier u formations are being synthesized. e. v. the result of

energy. we don't have that kind of time. we need more fuel elements with a greater chance of fusion. great. so, you say that in the sun for one proton, the efficiency is very low and the sun is so beautifully hot, thanks to its huge mass, the huge niva array in terms of one proton. it's one and two. i hear you that the temperature we need. it exceeds by an order of magnitude or more the temperature at the core of the sun precisely because we want to make the reaction more intense by the sun. can afford to burn slowly. and we want to get energy at a good pace, otherwise all this is not interesting there, otherwise we will have an inefficient reactor. and in our drawing illustrates what is happening most uh, a greater likelihood of synthesis. and today, between deuterium and the third , it is precisely this e, the fuel mixture that we use in our e, thermal reactors and as

a result of the synthesis of deuterium with the third e, helium is generated, 4, and yong and i. a neutron , and now the total mass of these two particles is less than the original one, and we get 17.6 mega electron volts as a result of energy as a result of each fusion act, if there are many such acts, well, multiply by the number of acts. this is the energy of a single act. here is the diagram of our reactor. why is it still a circuit with magnetic retention and here with uh the idea to implement such a reaction, uh, for decades, it has been rumored that here, maybe we are now doing something ext what fundamentally complex prevents it from being implemented once and immediately the second question. why, if we have not been able to achieve this for so long, why now, if i understand correctly, are we experiencing such cautious optimism or not experiencing his optimism? we certainly

feel he is connected. here's what, well, firstly, if you ask me, what results have we already achieved today, e, on such takamaks. here takomak is a russian word. uh, the traditional magnetic coil camera was invented by igor golovin, and he, in fact, the popular word is the same as satellite. yes and these and these kamaks today in their world more than 200 have already been built in different countries. the first 10 were built in our soviet union at the kurchatov institute and after the temperature of 10 million degrees was demonstrated in our country and what did our scientists report about? fat forums e in the world began a boom in the construction of takamaks and here on the two largest tokamaks on tamaki e hmm which was called tiftiar in prince oni in the united states and on the tatamak, which are still working jet e in england and thermal power has been obtained, respectively

11.5 and 16.7 m. w power. please say hmm about what you just said. eh, why during the last decades since, uh, the invention of tamak, we don’t have a working reactor that interferes with us, that if there is one main thing that it interferes with or every 5 years. we are some new obstacle, in front of our understanding of the plasma formation at a temperature of several hundred million degrees, each particle has six degrees of freedom. there are particles in this plasma. there, 10 in the twentieth scatter worse than cockroaches. we can, of course, and our task here. stability, which is collective generation, including plasma instability, learn to hold them, so that they do not develop for a long time, do not destroy this plasma formation of them. what is long time long time? well, vere's project, which is an international

experimental thermal reactor, which we are now building in the south of france, uh , seventy kilometers from marseille, we are 35 countries, seven partners the european union is a large number of countries. right now, seven partners, including china, south korea and india e. here we are in this collective of countries. uh, building this reactor. here it should have a temperature of 300 million degrees and 1,000 seconds. burning duration. this is in response to your question. uh, how do we how much time do we expect to hold today? great please tell us, we're pretty straight up sure it's going to work, yes, which ones or are you so squeamish? no , the physicists who are building the machine are sure that there are no technological physical prohibitions for such an experiment to be implemented, but 30 years ago. they also spoke and 40. now, here we will do it right.

uh, 30 years ago they thought we were, uh, they knew they had a one-by-two car in 3 seconds, but they thought it was one by two by 3 seconds. we will have time to produce as much power of thermoelements that is enough for us, but today, understanding has come. if we are building a reactor, then it must be understood. if you know how to ride a bike, 1 second does not mean that you know how to ride. here you need to sit down and go. and tell me, please, that is, we are much better able to really know how maintain current e, in this e structure a. a. this includes creating the configuration of the magnetic field. yes, well, the config. it is created quite quickly within a few seconds. then for 1,000 seconds it maintains. what configuration? we initially want to create, after all, we are a magnetic field, after all. yes, in terms of the configuration of the magnetic field. no problem. it is created on all those that it

is not a problem. the problem is that when you heat the plasma to a temperature above 100 million dollars, you and you turn on thermonuclear fusion processes. you have in the plasma along with the combustible children and the third. it appears to us, uh, very energetic well , 100 times more energetic on helium and they, uh, fly and because there are a lot of them. they begin to behave not as single particles in the plasma, but as a flock of e particles that feel each other, and some kind of collective behavior arises in them. what collective behavior in this magnetic configuration, no one has yet experimentally investigated in this. the novelty is when we say why we are building the er in order to for the first time a physicist to put this object into the hands of mankind and for the first time people e. managed, and after 1,000 seconds, what happens hits the wall, everything burns out, and we are building

a new one for another 5 years, but there are no more seconds. we're running out of plasma current. the plasma goes out. yes we stop the car for anything of the order, well 3.000 seconds. yes, and after that during this time we charge the power supply system, the installations and the next impulses are launched, so you don’t have to behave badly. she now, on the contrary , does not cool down well. after it faded and our vacuum system is pumped out of the chamber and the chamber is again, uh, ready to let in new children and set fire to the discharge again. yeah, tell me, i have two right. i don’t even know what to ask first, and she doesn’t have an extra throne. where are we going? they fly everywhere. we don't really like it neutrons fly, of course, in 4p. well, in all directions and e. well, as they say, we have extra neutrons. no, we would like to catch all the neutrons, as we catch them. we

lay out the entire chamber inside with the so-called, but blankite modules, the functions of which are neutrons, emitted from the plasma to take over and e, convert either into heat. uh, removing some kind of coolant. well, in eteri it will be water in other reactors. maybe other coolants, or if we place blanks in these modules. uh, let's say uranium 238. we can produce plutonium, 239, as fuel for nuclear power already. now let's leave the second part of nuclear history in the country, then, in general, such a primitive simple solution to capture neutrons is a solvable problem. we know their energy, we know how to deal with it. yes, but deuterium and the third fuel are needed somewhere by the brothers, probably in the water. she has enough technology. the release of e deuterium from the water of the oceans is an inexhaustible source of energy, they require a huge amount

of burning a large amount of oil, then the environmental friendliness of the processes under discussion is not in question, e no, they do not require. you can , with the use of atomic nuclear energy, in me they don’t need to live , put a nuclear station on the coast, er, of the ocean and make the discharges the doiter of the vladimir ocean. that is, this thing will be itself, like a series, there are no restrictions on the third. uh, the third one is made from excess lithium. on earth , we irradiate dashing neutrons enough and , due to the reaction of the neutron with lithium, you are accumulating. and the reactor as such, this is the final part, and it requires a sufficiently powerful one, as if it were softer with infrastructure both in terms of fuel and in terms of products, including emitted neutrons. of course, they are needed for well, neutrons, but they remain at a certain distance from the plasma , there are scales of meters in the structures

that you want to receive these neutrons, and from the point of view of helium, it remains in the plasma and is pumped out into the vacuum system. e from e from plasma. uh, in that sense, he's not radioactive, he's nothing, he's just ordinary gels. here we inflate the balloons. helium, the same gel is, as i understand it, alternative ideas to launch thermonuclear fusion - this is what is called inertial fusion, when e inertia is nuclear fuel, apparently also deuterium and the third does not allow them to fly apart before they merge. yes , there are several alternatives. this is done with a laser using here you can do with a laser you can have a sphere filled with a mixture of children, let's say in some kind of plastic shell. uh, compress with laser radiation. today there is a niv e installation in the states in livermore, and today it set a world record for this

type of thermonuclear fusion. for the first time , she received more fusion energy than what was injected into this target was laser energy. this is the most important result. but only excuse me, there is 20 times, if not 50 times less than the energy spent on the lasers themselves and on everything else, of course, of course, that is the question. where do we count from if we read from an outlet? uh-huh how much energy was taken, then it's, well, a few percent, they got the laser, then they got it. here is the so-called. uh ignition, which means that more thermoelement energy is produced than laser energy is brought to the target. please tell me yours in the broadest sense of all those working on the itr project regarding this undeniable, apparently successful. e, competing, of course, a huge success and

physicists were able there. the main problem was that e 196 laser beams compresses spherical tablet. you must compress it symmetrically so that it does not spill out through some hole between the rays, so there are so many of them 196, but they must also arrive at the same time in time. there, the compression time is one per second and e, so the synchronism of the arrival of these lasers in 1967 should be there dolin hundredth, fractions of nanosiks, and this is ensured and this was ensured in this experiment. in this you answer with great success. question e eter is not needed. here it will develop from here. will you and i just said that from sockets. e, very little. here we have, uh, in that experiment, about which i spoke jet yes , there from the outlet. 30 mw were introduced into the plasma, and 16 were received. that is, somewhere around 60%, e

, of the ratio of thermal energy to that introduced in the plan , one and a half, as in the case of liverpool here, not one and a half or two. here, about one and a half there was e in this sense, they went further, but if we talk from the outlet, then we will reflect the efficiency is very high and we have not 0.6 from the outlet, as i said, e diverted into the plasma. and where is 01 02, that is, we are much today we have gone farther from the outlet than the achievement of a record livermore, and the output of thermoid power was obtained on jet, this is the united european tokamag, in england , here it is shown in the figure on the left. eh, a picture of this takomak and the graphs themselves are shown, how thermal energy was created in the discharge of this takomak on the graphs of a second, there are 7 seconds. here are the seconds obtained last year as a record discharge. in the ninety-

seventh year, he was received there with a black such a short impulse, he is shown to be the highest. here, 60% of the ratios of thermal energy of energy to e to the input in plasma energy were obtained there. and yet. this is this is sometimes this question. and what have been achieved in 70 years of development of thermonuclear researchers. these are the seconds. we know how to produce thermal energy, but then, uh, the scientists said. what do we need? what step do we need to take today in order to step from this achievement to 1,000 seconds of a dozen miracles. the solution is not 0.6, as it is now 15 times higher than you are on this machine and for this, uh, designed and shown on the right in the figure such a modeler, which is now being built in france, and here we expect 1,000 seconds and the ratio of thermal power to the power of the injected plasma is ten. and this is significantly higher than what, uh, snifaf is reported.

he reached his peak in this experiment, and the top ten of this car should be when he reaches the maximum. here, on this slide, once again , the actual view of a thermonuclear reactor and twerk, which is being built by 35 countries, is shown once again, here is a site on which many objects have already been built and are being installed own reactor. today, installation is underway and , uh, design value, kirov is equal to ten. we have it in our plans, uh, an international project of 35 countries, as i said. partners , and here it is shown how the individual systems of this future reactor are distributed among the partners in a very um. difficult cooperation, because the partners. well, i already named them. this. uh, the european union, the united states uh, russia india china

civilizations korea korea uh, japan uh, you know, uh, they many of them are kissing civilizations. they have their own mentality its own decision-making system its own way of thinking and its own speed to make a decision. and it’s very difficult for everyone to go in one field, so the project is going at the speed with which it is going we would , of course, like to build it faster, but it turns out, because, unfortunately, an accident happened at the focus, which greatly delayed our japanese partners then covid-19 happened, which essentially delayed all of us. i wouldn't want to say stopped i didn't stop, but i delayed it a lot, so the project is called with the speed with which we expect it to be developed in such cooperation. er , the production of the first plasma in the thermoelement reactor r in the middle of the twenties of our century, at the end, if possible very briefly. and russian participation and

russian plans for e, controlled there thermonuclear fusion of 25 systems. we do for this machine. right here, where you will see on this slide, the russian flag. these are the systems that the russian federation makes 25. a. well, and all the partners , not only russia, but all the partners project. eh, they also have their own national project, which is one or the other aspect of a thermonuclear, e power plant of the future. uh, he is working on his national project on this e. we also have, uh, an internal program for thermoelement-controlled fusion in russia, and today we, uh, hmm, have developed a conceptual design for a tamak from a reactor. machine technology has recently made tremendous progress with high-temperature superconductivity, and now we are making an electromagnetic system. uh, these are high-temperature units, uh

superconductors and e, this gives a huge advantage to the engineers who design the machine and we think that it is parallel participation in such a grandiose project as etr and our own small compact one. e thermonuclear reactor. how, uh, are we doing such thoughts with technologies using btsp. uh, materials will enable us, well , we are going steadily to the future construction of a reactor in our country. humanity is in pursuit and may already be approaching the goal of obtaining an inexhaustible source of energy in the international cooperation for all mankind. this is how we expect success in mastering a new type of energy for all mankind.

thank you very much. best wishes. goodbye. alexander yatsenko now i was able to save only soviet people fish others are not here yevgeny tkachuk i will be with you until the end of my life fyodor dobronravov sees sergey makovetsky comrades from me, comrade the goat of constantine conservation.

we'll take care of this. it will be the honest detective. we watch to know everything about russia , we watch the best historical series for free without registering.

in ukraine last night, sirens were again announced in the eastern regions of the country, in particular in the sumy region of kirovohrad, poltava, dnepropetrovsk , kharkiv, and these shots were reported about the explosions, just in the kharkiv region, the intensity of russian strikes on the territory of ukraine by the end of the week increased markedly by the end of the week. according to the ministry of defense on february 10 , a massive strike was inflicted with high-precision weapons on a critical e, a military facility that ensures the work of the defense.