winged a loan with a guaranteed rate service - it's nice. but that's not all, just as you don't pay everything on time, and the post bank will return the difference in money, having recalculated the delivery credit of 4.5% per annum, go to the post bank for money. hello in ekaterina grachev's studio . this is the church program and we are on the russia 24 channel. and today my guest is professor alexei svetozarsky, head of the department of church history of the moscow theological academy , alexei konstantinovich hello, glad to see you. i a-a watched a few of your well open for viewing lectures on youtube and hmm you are interesting

in detail. tell us about the history of the russian orthodox church and it is always interesting to see some kind of secular political context. and at some turning points in the history of the church. here, as it seems to me, we are now witnesses of the present historical moment. right now. a not there a couple of years ago, when there was a church split. it then seemed to me synthetic so artificial, and today it seems that all this is already acquiring quite such hmm visible forms, that is a certain abscess disappeared, which has been brewing for a long time , or i'm mistaken here. and you think that just what is happening in ukraine today is so artificial. but the real one was just before. well, the fact is that hmm, all these beginnings of development and planting splits, and they, uh, went in parallel with the acquisition

of independence of ukraine. apparently this is some kind of inevitable moment that is difficult for me to explain, but very similar to the events that took place in 19. 518 is the first e, petliura’s attempt to turn e, in constantinople there was such a fortunately, the patriarch was not there; instead, the guardian did not dare to decide. and so, if we are talking about gaining independence and attempts at self-identification, then e is in the first place. this is the public task of the state. uh, everything, church on the second ukraine panacea - it has always been the first schism that was born there in 1921, and there was a schism that the people called gemstones , there was not a single bishop who would go to the initiators of the creation out of the blue , and in the tekefal church of ukraine a with the liturgical language

ukrainian and with some other features. found with a priest by a group of priests and laity. here's what they decided. well, we know canonically. the rule of one bishop is ordained by several bishops. this comes from the time of the holy apostles. this is the inevitable rule and sign of one's own true church. apostolic succession is no bishop. what to do, well then, that we will do a collective ordination, it means that the priests are standing in the altar, and the knee is kneeling, and the bishops called him vasily levkovsky to the candidate. yes, in ukrainian lepkinsky the priests lay hands on him together, without the deacons having the right to do so. uh, it means that the shoulders of the priests are the last deacon, who is in the royal gates, that means from the altar. eh, sticking out there, that means laymen, men and women, that is, they decided such a period, this is the twenty-first year and one of the schisms. e,

which e. well, in general, somehow still smoldering, it has continuity from this community. uh, this is ukrainian autocephalous orthodoxy. naya church, which died there twice, was reborn three times and which was adopted in that schism, in which apparently you began to speak to the orthodox church of ukraine with the words schism ukraine is 100 years old. well, yes, yes, if we take the beginning of the slipkovsky split, there was not only him there, there was also buldovshchina or lipkovshchina, but the features of the gems are interesting. there it was possible to ordain in a married state, as a lepkovsky and such a bishop as a dowager. it was possible to marry a second time, that is, the benefits are the widest, but nevertheless, he did not enjoy great popularity. and another amazing moment. why? are we talking about context? why ukrainization soviet ukrainization is going on everywhere, the most fertile time, and

then it ended the party’s policy changed in the thirtieth year, this church announces the very dissolution in history, there are cases without precedent, so that some denomination that considers itself a goal declares that, well, how this is a protection union for our cats or a society of lovers of fish ruining. all right, we've completed the mission. here they had such a you. it is in our mission in ukraine that we have fulfilled, we ourselves are disbanding. it's possible imagine with the current schismatics that they can at some point descend , it is unlikely that they are gaining strength, but if we are talking about episcopating , we have already touched on this topic, then the surest sign, and the canonicity of the church without a bishop of the church. no , this is the most for itself. you are now talking about this, but in the context of the church, and if we nevertheless turn to the secular context, what i am talking about, why do church schisms coincide

with serious, as it were, political shifts in history? i don't even know the ukrainian land, will it be correct to look for the ukrainian state, given that we are talking about the thirties of the last century. why is this happening? why does the church become? well, what we are seeing now is such an effective tool in the hands of politicians. well, uh, then in the early twenties it’s understandable. it's just that these lovers of hmm mov worship of some kind of national saba identification. they rather took advantage of the situation, uh, that has developed in the state. yes , all attempts failed, and statehood is still 21 years old. soviet ukraine politics for ukraine and just they got into the ranks very well. and plus, the desire of the state, uh, then, so to speak, hostile, towards the church and

the soviet state, the desire to split the church. here is one of the varieties, please, what role did the patriarch of constantinople play then, and the patriarch of the patriarchy, because when the recent happened split in ukraine even those who are far from the orthodox church. uh, everyone knew who he was and became a famous figure, almost like ursoland, yes, a then in the thirties of the xx century. what position did constantinople take? well, of course, more cautious well, first of all, there were internal problems. there was the collapse of the ottoman empire ; there was a widow, and the patriarchal throne was instead a guardian. and only somewhere, probably, from the age of 23, constantinople again enters the international inter-orthodox arena

and at this time the russian church cannot act there for obvious reasons due to persecution raskolnikov they certainly do not go on pin here in the eighteenth year. we said they evaded petlyura a's proposal at 21. but it's too much for them, uh, such a bright split. yes, but they understood that this is absolutely without a gracious community, but, but they evaded, and between the canonical church of the patriarch. quiet. she yes who was in custody. whom, uh, the renovationist pseudo-sobor condemned and between the renovationists and exchanged telegrams there and offered patriarch tikhon, uh, to retire, so to speak , for the sake of church peace. clear and firm. yes , patriarch sergius a was not elected at first in the forty-fifth year

of the patriarch, alexei was already a representative of the patriarchate of constantine at the local council, where they elected, that is, everything, as if this unity was restored. and so the period is very dull. here, uh, almost all the twenties, all the thirties and the beginning of the forties. well, let's turn to today. what is your forecast of what will happen next with the orthodox church and the orthodox church in ukraine in general , i mean the patient. well, i don't agree here. because for me there is one orthodox church in ukraine. uh, the canonical church that's in a state of persecution. there is no point in talking about some kind of pressure. and i, too , will deviate a little, maybe a little, from this topic in our conversation. and i would like to note something here. and what about the state of persecution, which is complex and is carried out according to bolshevik patterns. i don't know where

these manuals were written. well, a classic, but the state contributes, and maybe even initiates the creation of an alternative church. this is the first the schism was the filaret schism, and the learned former metropolitan of kiev filaret denisenko, with the submission of kravchuk or not, for which ukraine needed its own church. eh, philaret had his own reasons to go, so the paths. here's your first time. please, but for some time , parity was still maintained there. yes, it was stated. uh, there were more peaceful times, of course, what is this diversity? well, people want to broadcast the easter service from st. volodymyr's cathedral with a philaret on the other according to one program from trinity church. where there is already a kiss, and let’s say his beatitude metropolitan vladimir sabon, now deceased, serves there.

well, here we have such a picture. we have the west. we have the east. they liked to talk about it in that the picture is changing dramatically and, in general, the course is to put an end to the orthodox church. that is why for me there are not many orthodox churches, because the current primate is epiphanius. and dumenko sergey dumenko i looked who ordained him there is not a single canonical ordained egyptian all were ordained in schism, and when filaret was already anathemat long ago in 2000, there are bright personalities there, what will happen next in ukraine will go beyond the canonical orthodox church with all the churches that are still there. e in prayers. e. well, i think that the persecution, of course, will increase , the persecution will increase, and again in a complex way, they will increase, they will squeeze churches out on the ground, and they will use the administrative resource. and so, well, the most alarming thing happened, the economic court of the city of

kiev decided to dismantle, and tithe monastery. this temple is over twenty years old. there is a community there, which stands in a very historical place next to the excavations on the site of the first stone church built by prince vladimir but aside. yes, that is, he is a prayer successor. and these are eras. and what is the word temple demolition. here, there are pretexts, but also , as in soviet times, something is not well- formed there. and so on, well, in a favorable situation, there was no quickness, of course. but now there is this demolition, as in soviet times it interferes with the movement of transport. demolition e does not interfere with two temples i know where they closed, they carried exactly the altar part, the most holy one, they made there, a passage for pedestrians, and the temples were left used for other needs. well, here, uh, they will be completely demolished. here under such a pretext. i think that will increase, then see the decision of the citizenship of five

bishops of the canonical ukrainian orthodox church, that they are planning a philosophical exchange steamboat. e on prisoners of war vsushnikov there or some of the national basses. e nazis, i don't know a and hangs when the sword is wet bill completely banning the ukrainian orthodox church, but here even the bolsheviks. they didn’t think of it before, they never said that they were going to cancel it there. or completely destroy the question arises. do you believe the possibility of an orthodox maidan in ukraine that it will be initiated by the parishioners of the canonical church? i certainly believe that orthodoxy will survive, that it will survive, well, in a variety of forms, from secret confession there and a strong state for the faith. and as for some e public speeches, but what the orthodox can

only well, some non-violent methods of protest, uh, use. that's because, well, some kind of broad protest movement. i think it is impossible that on the eve of all the events that we started a year ago there was already a grandiose, prayerful standing. i watched live broadcasts, and the mass of orthodox support the canonical church , they understand everything with easter. with singing led by the clergy ah, that's all. it was possible, and now the mouth for that instantly, because again, let's take an analogy, the eighteenth year of the processions go, uh, which are met by machine-gun or rifle fire, the real executions were these were the processions of the cross of protest, of course. there was also a subtext here. and after the issuance of the decree on the separation of church and state , people protest against the attack on rights, and none of them

think that they will be shot at right now, that this is generally possible in russia, but this is also a bolshevik principle. by the way, they can use it too. oh, it's impossible to know, and remember how lenin was in his 22nd year. we should shoot so many of this public there to the clergy of the black hundreds of the fists. there, and so on, the usual front, so that they remember it for a decade, such an option is possible, and i don’t think it’s worth waiting for? such speeches. and when, uh, it all began to revolve around the church schism, at some point, it seems to me, uh, something called fatig came, that is, it’s just that tiredness set on edge from how means even people don’t understanding nothing in this patriarchate of constantinople patriarch, moscow of all russia in ukraine is economic, so the representative of the church is not

canonical, you won’t understand anything there, huh? the circumstances that have developed in ukraine now, searches will not lead to these persecutions of priests. this is to the fact that, in principle, such fatig moods will grow from not observing all these church sizes and people will simply pray at home or, i don’t know, go somewhere to fortunetellers, that is, people go to church in order to to escape the war or the news about the war, yes, pour out their souls, if they observe the war in the church space, they may simply not want to go there already. there is someone to walk, of course, there. uh, this ancient dark tradition is so very. eh, like a gloomy shadow, the gloomy twin of the ukrainian mentality is the ability and desire, alas, to turn to

various kinds of cult means. they are them. so, in a crisis, it’s just that panochki , uh, women on podil are all witches - this is all, of course, curious and once it all amused and fun, but we saw dolls wood is dressed in the uniform of dead russian soldiers. it's important from this from this form it's important. yes? this part can be here. yes here is, who in this understands quite itself manipulate. well, it's an old tradition. well, often the question is, uh, let's just say that the priest is local in ukraine in some areas, especially uh, did he conjure there or not. yes it seems wild, but it is relevant. she used to conjure often, because she would practically confirm her questions to the priest, and those who accept these confessions are, as

it were, perfect. i wanted this such a father, so it came out and turned out home. oh lord, forgive me a sinner and so on. well, it's not just that, the smaller the field of action of the true church, then it's not only u, fortune-tellers, it's not only pagan bonfires, they are dusting brighter here. here's what can happen. here i remember in kiev on the porch of the vladimir cathedral. i was there, despite the fact that it was captured by e, the schismatics of the filatovites there are relics, or who is very zavorov and the holy martyr macarius, the metropolitan of kiev for the sake of this you can go, but you can’t go to any temples for the sake of the shrine i leave the wife obviously, apparently they are from the province. they go to temples here. uh, they lit a candle, and it's like a little more ecclesiastical. we already explains. here is the entire ukrainian church. now , if at this e level people will argue,

after all, what is the matter of all the noise and political e, of course, various kinds will pass, the church will definitely withstand the storm. although he may suffer damage in his children in his abode there, who will take away, uh, and further, but nonetheless. it may happen that people will walk with a bucket empty well, but this is a conditional gorpytna, which explains that ukrainian is for her, that's the whole difference in this, but it will go. is she there for the daughter of vinci or, uh, to take communion to confess? and to whom i looked with pain in my heart, i watched how e triumphs hmm sergey who is called dumenko's epiphany a admitted in the churches where the orthodox served , until recently the orthodox said goodbye to the temples, and the upper kiev-pechersk lavra, well, the choirs are richly poured expensively, well, weaving of

the voice was russian fine people like priests. so they are curious. you know their patterns, like on embroidered shirts on liturgical vestments and hairstyles, similar to the cossacks. but it's not important to ask the question, who are all these people? what are their powers, what kind of driver is this? he has rights or he just rides and is already really in the minds of many. here, but this is not normal. it’s not normal there is a compulsion in the category normal, abnormal we are now talking about your forecast, we can’t have two scenarios, let’s say hard and soft, and which will be chosen by the authorities ukrainian politician. how to proceed? with canonical orthodox priests , what will be the tough one according to your scenario and which one? the lesser of two evils here is very difficult to predict something, because, well,

first of all, i'm not sure if it's some hmm analytics. here the action of the ukrainian authorities will work, because they are planning it. here is the question. what are they or are planning this religious policy, because it has changed so dramatically. well, let's hope. yes , they are just from the twenties, but they develop that the patriarch of constantinople is not only the first honors, as is customary. yes? something like the pope is an orthodox pope. here and apparently similar to this. uh, it's directly attracted to the flow. here it is always there, and in this sense there is another project actually, uh, which comes from a certain. she is no longer the third far force. this is a ukrainian sin, and catholics are the so- called uniates. and those who are, so to speak, under the pope of rome are part of

the roman catholic church, but very, very peculiar since the twenties and thirties , the head of the unian church, nurtured ambitious plans to move union to the east. well, chekan, of course, supported all this here. well, sheptytsky did not happen there, but the plans are being implemented by the organization of the patriarchy, which will unite all ukrainian christians. a common thing is something that has never happened, where sin, catholics and orthodox, must somehow coexist under a single head of the ukrainian patriarchs. here are the cathedrals. they built something that had never happened in history in kiev, e., the uniates were very well represented before the revolution. and this, i think, is quite scary. and alas, quite real, but a forecast. uh, i don’t want it to come true somehow, uh, who can also support on the lantern if

they have such philo-catholic moods, ah , all the time there is talk that it’s time to reunite, but here it just might to be a testing ground for this compound resolution alexei konstantinovich what do you think, as a professor? yes, the next department, ah, the adoption of the law of the state duma, they allow the use of foreign words , with the exception of those that do not have commonly used analogues in the russian language. is it possible to do things like this regulated by laws, it's possible to somehow perceive really know that's just it's not a matter of philology. not a question of the law of creativity. this is such a question of our strangers, because it was heard and somehow can be easier to say. i thought i couldn't understand what it was about. yes, i understand. in general , some. you are absolutely things that can be explained by simple kipshidze in the last program, we will not get to

the point of calling a galosh a macrostrophe, and why not? well, we're slacking off. well, no, there are languages ​​that develop at the expense of an exclusively internal resource, we have ours tongue, he didn't go that route. yes? this is an old debate. uh, that means both archaists and society, arzamas well, it happened. it all goes back, but to pushkin's times. i don’t think that one should be some kind of deliberate language zealots here, just watch your speech, yes, how do you talk? there, in the language of the gates or some kind of uh, silicone lady from tiktok, well, just don’t stoop to that and try to make your speech at the level of uh, norms, russian literary language , at least i don’t see a big danger here. just behind this very a lot of. worth this e vulgar imitation. yes, when we took e in

the era, and the turn of the xvii-xviii century. this is not only peter, these are his predecessors, in general, all novels. in fact, starting with mikhail fedovich, they looked towards the west and technological innovations. e military, and achievements. the state needed the fleet , everyone understood this. well, people, uh, who are, uh, lesser in rank, they looked at uh all kinds of moments related to comfort with entertainment with trinkets. so we have it running in parallel. but i think that these are linguistic trinkets, which i wish, uh, clean up, monkey around, i don’t think it’s been so dangerous for a long time. this is already happening to us. yes, someone had new guns, er, long-range speeds. i don't know what they could then. to be, someone needed a fleet, and someone needed a mirror, but

it was not customary in ancient russia to look at oneself in a mirror. here. i think it's about moments. here for and borrowing no big words. sometimes a person does not fully understand, so he uses it to the fullest, because on hearing somewhere he hears a question to the media. how careful are they in this regard? hmm avoid foreign words, when is it possible? how to replace olivier or meringue? i don't know. i need to think. thank you very much alexey konstantinovich for coming to our studio. here are our guests thank you very much.

righteous

the operational-tactical aviation and artillery of the russian group of forces vostok inflicted a comprehensive fire defeat by a unit of the armed forces of ukraine in the area of ​​​​nikolskoye and ugoldar about this reported in the ministry of defense adding that the enemy suffered significant losses. the zaporizhia direction of operational-tactical aviation and artillery of the vostok group of forces inflicted a complex fire defeat by a unit of the armed forces of ukraine in the areas

of settlements, nikolskoye and ugoldar of the donetsk people of the republic, the enemy’s losses amounted to more than 75 military personnel, one tank. infantry fighting vehicle, combat, armored vehicle and two pickup trucks. in the area of ​​\u200b\u200bthe populated punktage region, missile troops and artillery for a day or two