[000:00:00;00] next week, a major political event will take place that will possibly determine the future of world politics in the coming years. his first foreign visit as a re-elected head of the people's republic of china with denping will make it to russia in china, this visit is called a peace visit. on monday, an informal meeting of the two leaders will take place in moscow. in general, the visit of the chinese leader will last several days. according to the results, as presidential aide yury ushakov said, it is planned to sign a number of important documents on the interaction of the two countries in the international arena in the context of an extremely tense situation in the world about this very situation and we will talk with the honorary chairman of the honorary chairman of the faculty of world economy and world politics of the higher

school of economics. greetings from the presidium of the council on foreign defense policy sergei karaganov, sergei aleksandrovich. this is such a complicated, uh, yes, international politics, which we see the black sea incident , the strategic bomber approach to st. petersburg this is all, uh, atmosphere we are already somehow they said that the situation would escalate, but, in my opinion, the situation is escalating further. this is today's announcement of the international criminal court regarding the arrest of vladimir putin, this is a clear provocation, and just before the meeting. eh, putin's time was not chosen by chance. what do you think? of course they are accidental, but i would not, uh, panic, our western adversaries, partners, if you like, are in a rather difficult situation and historically

lose and go on a desperate counteroffensive. uh, one of the destinations in some kind of offensive is the satanization of russia, and the first one can be there , and even more importantly, the second one is for this creation, and the image of the most cruel enemy from russia, and in order to, uh, distract from internal problems and most importantly tie yourself inside, there is e, it crumbles the main reason for the sanction of the fourteenth year. eh, and the current one. uh, stage, it's certainly an attempt. uh, to link the following european project , the same thing happens in a euro-atlantic relations, but accordingly, you just need to take it easy on another matter, that policy is dangerous. e. well, i think he's not going to raise the stakes there to u teach

our uh opponents. sergei alexandrovich well, they often say to raise rates. and what does this mean for an example for people to understand? what is it about? well, you know, here are some very simple things and i understand. i don't want. now i can draw in this staircase the containment of the stairs with the collapses. yes, my 15, and you can write 20 steps in steps. well, at the bottom of this ladder there are uh things like uh, for example, exit from the u contract about just looking for opening defeats. really strong signal. uh, the second step is uh heating. e. here it is on a flying machine. uh, the third step i'll take is snakes, for example, uh, russia's nuclear doctrine is for which i 'm giving in. it's time for us to understand that it doesn't

quite correspond to hmm and the times. it's just that she was born under very good circumstances. uh, fourth fifth sixth for dislocation. uh, the power of i containment well , i repeat, there are a lot of steps, some can and should be done behind the scenes, some are hidden from some are already being done. and i think that, to unfortunately, this ladder will have to be, because our partners are really in a desperate ah situation, but we spoiled them a little with the fact that aggression, er, is still extremely decent. but sergei alexandrovich is still a visit that will take place. eh, why do you think so quickly the leader of china, er, decided to come to us? of course, we are very pleased with this visit, but

nevertheless. it literally passed, and his appointment as the official all chinese people's congress was all approved and, uh, chinese the leader goes immediately to our country. this is also a sign. as far as i know, i booked to serve a month and a half, if hardly ago, and this is simply understandable. it was all planned. this is clear on the signal. that we are the first partner. and this is the first, second. i think there are, uh, extremely important items on the agenda. e interaction e russia e, china on a number of issues , first of all e, in opposition, and the collective west who is trying to lose the last battle, but we don’t know, e, naturally the agenda, if before performed by you. e, although a huge number

of people do not guess, therefore, about. i think that this agenda does not fully know, even those people who are empowered to talk about this agenda. e among other things, but two leaders. two, probably the most powerful leaders in the world, maybe you can add more, and an example of fashion, maybe someone else, uh , has its own agenda, which will not be discussed, which so far, almost no one except me i know. sergei alexandrovich , i understand your caution. i think that, probably, there is no need to run ahead of the locomotive and really discuss what the leaders will discuss what we will be supposed to know . they will announce to us. i agree with you here, but still. we can dream up a little, in the sense from the point of view of analytics. and you well, one of the best analysts. uh, on this part of the world politics of the economy. she had a lot to discuss this week and , uh, interesting things are happening in america

here. eh, on the one hand. they send drones to us. strategic bombers for provocation on the other hand. their banks are collapsing and in these conditions we see how public opinion is. america is still changing a little. well, tucker carlson has long been called an agent of the kremlin. this is understandable, but nevertheless, he is one of the leading analysts and political observers in america, he has the highest ratings. and fox news in this case, but they somehow sound there. these are sober conditions, uh, or rather an assessment of the situation. what do you think, after all, uh, lately, here we have been collecting for a week or two, we are moving on the one hand to escalate, and with another to some sobering up in the west, or you don't think so, because there are more and more materials after all, journalists, uh, i have a slightly different profession uh, 2 weeks,

of course, in uh, playing essentially the steering wheel of the war. uh, those doors don't mean anything from a perspective. here is this gigantic process. e, remade the world that was launched 15 years ago there and which is now e coming into the most surya phase. it's entering there. e as for when the conditional americans changed their minds. i think they are in the future do not think, they also convinced themselves, but that they carry what they carry. secondly, they generally speaking, uh, after this hysteria, there is nowhere to retreat to, so they, uh, we are provided with a hostile policy of the united states of america a for the near future. uh, i think not the nearest for the foreseeable future will directly speak. i think that the process of restructuring the world order, which was

launched 15 years ago, has now entered a more active phase. e tradition for 10 years, and 10 15 20 for another thing that they don’t need to manage, including uh, possibly more stringent measures. and what have we been doing so far? eh? well, for example, by raising the stakes in order to deprive our opponent of the opportunity, these stakes are raised, because so far it is not so paradoxical. what, in general, in the european theater we have, uh, huge advantages, the so-called ability to escalate dominance. e in escalation. uh, while hmm escalated, uh, our western ones, and the opponents they tried many, many types of weapons. we see. uh, at some point, we will have to interrupt this

game, but in any case, our game is different than theirs. you, uh, play for a complete victory. in the ukrainian conflict, uh and uh hoped for some kind of at least partial defeat of russia would permanently enter. uh, some time from there, ours will be glad that they will offer negotiations for negotiations. now it won't lead to anything. i think that, unfortunately, the situation is already such that here is just a full conversation, and the ukrainian state and transformations, which is different. uh, can, uh lead to relative, uh, yes, peaceful outcome of the conflict in europe, but uh, that's not going to happen quickly. sergey alexandrovich i understand that now the situation is indeed such a global one and in 2 weeks for us a journalist 2

weeks is a lifetime, and for you such and the level of an analyst. as you are it is mick who nevertheless reflects the great sea in this drop of water. so this is a big sea. i'm like a man who sits on the news feed all the time. one gets the feeling that we are strongly persuaded to make friends with the west. and we have a large lobby, inside the country, we will to speak frankly, who says, let's restore everything anew, and relations with the west. although, er, a certain conciliatory note, such conciliatory notes were studied this week from vladimir putin. he said that we do not have unfriendly countries. we have unfriendly elites. well, of course, i will not argue with the president, but it seems to me that this is unfortunately, uh. yes, not so, i said so in the sense that we again give desirability, indeed. we again gently lay in order to somehow try not to burn. all bridges to agree, but, in my opinion, with us no one agrees. gets kerby said

no ceasefire. how to negotiate with them? i think that vladimir vladimirovich did not lie, of course, he never lies, but he did not say that it was true. and i think that he can hardly count on, probably, any good from our partners and the fact that he is alone with them of these circumstances. uh, can agree. well, from my point of view, with him after when it is said it is impossible even there is sympathy . in general, he is absolutely inside the reason, and everything is in europe's phenomenal appearance. there's just talking on just waiting until it crumbles. let's see, maybe something on and you'll see, uh, through there on the floor of subjugation or through generations it will ascend. well, i don't know if i'll come in, there, uh, new sober progressive points of view, but i'll come in

completely. socialist is a more obvious option for me in 10-15 years. yes, so you need to manage the process. uh, should i let it slide into a big fusion, ah, but that requires action. eh, sometimes it's extremely tough. i, uh, i think that some time, and along with the actions on the ground of the grinding of the royal armed forces, uh , you will have to start putting yourself much tougher pressure on the military-political it oh, russia, i was talking just today . here are the statements about the president. it's certainly not my place to comment. apparently, but still. i say, i ask what people ask, people ask. and how long will we try to put up with them? and here is the plane that dived. and why we could not

say, we did not shoot him down, but nevertheless. once again we will fly and shoot down, why can't we say that? what are we already afraid of? i just said that the number of people is rapidly decreasing. it just shrinks before our eyes, we would like to agree. well it's uh, just fools uh. well, of course, people do not want their interests. a probably live in a military environment. it's clear. but if they are on e, something like that, it's just stupid, as for the other majority, which you want to immediately demolish as a gift. uh, then i think uh hmm top conditional of our uh it is precisely such sentiments that guides

are welded there. i am experienced and cautious people. they understand that they are guaranteed to shoot down some small planes just like that. and what you need? somewhere long is a tough strategy of very multi-level, which, by the way, is designed not only to influence western uh opponents, but should affect our uh potential allies and neutrals, the world's majority. uh, it's at this level at the current level for example, hard hard escalation from our side. it is unlikely that they added activity to us, uh the world majority, which, in principle, you know all these, vote for these russian resolutions by his representation of the united states, but, in principle, three- quarters of the world is for us. well, so it's not necessary and these

three-quarters of the world are repelled by a. i think that in half a year there, uh, these three-quarters of the world, but will be much closer to us. we are now they are getting better and better at what is happening. and we, unfortunately hmm out of habit of their inheritance. for the last 300 years. there are no post-soviet times of soviet power, power, we look mainly at west. eh, generally looking at e in the other direction, or at least on all sides, i am much more interested in from the point of view. there is a perspective of three fifty years. what is going on in asia and even in africa and sergey alexandrovich but really, uh, it is better to think strategically, but this is understandable, nevertheless. here is my last question. hmm feeling like a journalist. as you say, but it seems to me that in 2-3 months the acute phase

on the side will end. how do you think? i feel so i'm even sure it's not will end. i thought that there would be certain tough measures, but i think that there would be some kind of entry. but, but quickly this situation will end. eh, i repeat. eh, from my point of view. uh mine. this is a poor process, and in the end, it should be aimed at ensuring that, uh, it is correct to say statehood, as uh, not a fascist anti-russian entity, yes, ceased to exist. e, well, respectively, then re-educate, yes, the population was educated by the population. yes, i do not think that he

should be for him interested in the whole of ukraine, uh, will have to act in such a way that the territory of ukraine will never again face a military threat. but the russian federation, so that it was either there was no friendly territory. well, uh, sergey aleksandrovich, it’s hard to disagree with you here. thank you for finding the time for us and for you and i. so , we frankly discussed rather acute problems of international politics. thanks again. i remember my conversation with the scientific director of the faculty of world economy of world politics, and the higher school of economics reporting chairman of the presidium of the council on foreign defense policy sergey karagan this week, at the initiative of our country , the un security council on the problem of russophobia was held.

what is the need for such an event today, we talked with dmitry polyansky, first deputy permanent representative of russia to the un in new york, and we also discussed the us provocation in the black sea. dmitry alekseevich hello, the security council held this week on the topic of russophobia. uh, as a politician, what do you say? how did it go and what are the results for us it was very important this particular topic. uh, discuss it at the sb site, because we discussed it in no way, the question of the internal situation in ukraine, but as a factor that impedes the achievement of long-term peace and settlement in ukraine in the region as a whole. this is how we presented it, as a threat to international peace and security, these facts are blatant russophobia. first of all, in ukraine they often remain outside the brackets. uh, the attention of our former western partners, who, if

they talk about ukraine, then exclusively, and in ideal expressions in ideal tones. uh, like some kind of white, fluffy country, uh, in which democracy of human rights flourishes, naturally against the backdrop of a terrible authoritarian. so, in order to knock down this narrative for them, it was important for us to hold this meeting, and we had very good ones. uh, speakers and kirill vyshinsky and dmitry vasilev. they all, so to speak, the ins and outs of russophobia and gave a lot of facts to the members of the security council. uh, the members of the security council were represented, uh, western at a low level, they tried to make this is a certain dimash, but in the end it all did not work in their favor, because in general they could not conduct a dialogue with us on an equal footing, and in some cases they even sounded

justifying images. uh, well, for their part, they invited timati snyder, a well-known promoter of the interests of the ukrainian regime in the west, dmitry snyder, a historian who promotes all these ukrainian myths and inventions of recent years e ancient ukrainian which also tried to outgrow everything, so to speak, but to shift from sick head to a healthy one, saying that your brusophobia. this is a product of our policy, but he, of course, did not take it into account. and what we noticed is that russophobia in ukraine, uh, began long before the special military operation and the speakers on the floor drew the attention of the speakers. therefore, i think that the meeting was very important, it received quite a lot of resonance on the sidelines, it is actively discussed, many facts. uh, really were not familiar to many members. he, i think that they, of course , will take this attention when they work with their capitals on the problems of ukrainian crisis, because it is, uh, one of its causes

and uh, one of the factors that, of course , must be addressed in any uh, long-term settlement. e ukrainian crisis. that's what we said in our speech , but d . and that everything is russian it's terrible to cancel tchaikovsky dostoevsky and everything else. now, uh, some more realistic approach has appeared in the west or not, but still some separate publications say that it seems not no russophobia in the sense in which we present it. here on the same meringue. i understand that the british representative spoke russian. he said. no, you're making all this up. i think that the personal factor a plays a very significant role here, because, as it were, in full understanding, as our president said. there is no non-friendly state. there are no friendly elite. there are also non

-friendly representatives of the diplomatic corps of these elites. and i think that if place here is the british representative of the political coordinator, who at the time was speaking this third person was the political hierarchy. consequences if there were his boss , who is known for her russophobic and completely non-constructive views, then you would not hear anything like that about the briton, on the contrary , he sincerely tried to prove that he did not deny and his country did not deny russian culture. ah, russian art. i know that for many britons, this is indeed the case, as for many americans who address us here and even apologize for their authorities. on the one hand, on the other hand, there is, for example, a museum of the metropolis there, which began to rewrite russian artists in ukrainian or armenian and change the name of the paintings. and this is difficult to explain uh in common sense. but it's just some kind of personal, so to speak, personal order, personal

crusades. e of someone from the leadership of this museum , my impression is that now, of course, in the west. uh, well, in particular the united states where we all the same are more soberly began to estimate this situation? and such calls to cancel tchaikovsky there and ban pushkin , e.g., can be heard very rarely, but only from ukrainians, because they are completely people or representatives of the ukrainian diaspora, but nonetheless. here uh, it is through russophobia that he is trying to lay the idea that uh is everything. russian is, uh, criminal, so to speak, at least requires a rethinking of the work of the political elite, and everything connected with russia, uh, is extremely toxic for media for some analysts. i know that i know independent journalists. uh, here in the usa who, for example , they approached me so that, uh, i gave an interview, then they complained that the editors threatened to fire me. and for the fact that in general the voice of russia can be heard in which

they show such militancy, of course, and dmitry alekseevich has another important topic with russophobia. understood and here. uh, there will be these waves here and there, back and forth. ah, well, nonetheless. well, russophobia is like western policy countries in more light version. she always goes in the same background. a and uh, don't they want uh, uh, countries that see all the problems. e in russia look at yourself. i mean, this is also the topic of the week, which is a very active provocation in the black sea, and which the americans are not only, uh, the black sea, there is also this strategic bomber approach in the baltic, and on, uh, peter and so on, that is these provocative actions are , in fact, the participation in the united states, but in the conflict in ukraine, somehow this is an international community level. he will discuss it again in the near future, but because there is a feeling that the world is still slipping into very unpleasant things. of course, we

will raise all these questions and, uh, they now have a more favorable audience among our colleagues, because indeed many countries see it very well. uh, what an abyss, uh, the politics of western political circles are pushing us into, uh, which, in general , are now serving in many respects, uh, interests, but of the american and western military-industrial complex. we all know that these companies receive huge dividends and big wars here. they're not interested in uh, stopping them. that's just, i think, yesterday, john kirby of the white house said that the cessation of hostilities. it would be a violation. uh, the un charter, if i 'm not confused, that is, it shows, uh, the algorithm of thinking that dominates the american elite. eh, i have a feeling that not all americans. this is such an understatement welcoming such. the policy is such

a course of its leadership, and more and more more becomes a publication here, and even in those who are sometimes the media, er, who ask themselves the question. and where exactly does this policy lead and whether it will lead to a direct clash. uh, the great nuclear powers are here too. uh, of course, the oil is on fire, and the ukrainian leaders are also throwing it up. e, we all remember how zelensky was in his time. e, shouted in his own manner that in america they would have to send their daughters and sons to die for ukraine, this caused a huge negative resonance here and also made many to ponder, therefore these topics. we are keeping an eye on it. we regularly hold these events in the security council, where we point out the real background of the policy of western states. uh, now many developing countries are constantly being urged by westerners and trying to force them to support anti-russian initiatives. general assembly too. they are already starting to analyze. e

your interests your steps through the prism of what western countries are doing, therefore, e. i have a feeling that little by little this is the perception of this situation. eh, but we have to say, it slides into a plane that is not very comfortable for western, uh, states, and they have to make efforts so that, uh, so to speak, they don’t look like hawks at all and not reveal their true goals, which, as we all understand. this is actually a geopolitical weakening of russia. or better yet , a strategic defeat. there is a weakening of our country and its collapse, and so on. yes, dmitry alekseevich , there really is still hope that sooner or later, but you will have to face the truth and see the true causes of everything that happens. thanks a lot. thank you.

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