[000:00:16;00] part of the funds for entrepreneurs and enterprise ticket hello in the studio of ekaterina grachev, this is our weekly program church and we are in russia 24 interviews we take and representatives of the church and talk about the latest news that happened in russia in the world over the past week. and today my guest is the secretary for inter-christian relations of the department for external church relations and novels, stefan gumnov. eh, father. hello, glad to see you in the studio. well, look, on march 13, in an interview with taz hmm, you said that the relations of the russian orthodox and roman catholic church in the current geopolitical circumstances, the quote is being tested with more or less success. here, explain, well, we understand what the situation in ukraine is about and the persecution of the canonical orthodox ukrainian church is the very test. what do you expect, and how will our relations with the catholics pass the test, but in fact in this phrase, but the key idea is that they still

pass more or less this test, because what is in front of us. stand today huge challenges like never before? this is obvious to everyone, because there is tremendous pressure being put on the roman catholic church in general on christians living in the western world for a variety of reasons pressure intended to uh, undermine our relationship with them these contacts are important for building such an alliance the christian worldwide alliance is those who are trying to prevent this are well aware, because there are either christians together, if they cooperate, they are strong and then it is not so easy to promote the most liberal agenda, which today is moving forward in all societies and hmm to achieve the goals that are set for those who just want to tear us away from the roots of our traditional in this sense with the catholics. we have indeed formed a certain alliance in the struggle. it is against all these innovations that today

the events that are taking place in my geopolitical area are known to everyone. e. formed another challenge that they are trying to use in order to destroy our relationship, but so far this has not been successful in the first place, pope, francis appreciates, but direct the contact that was established between him and his holiness patriarch kirill, everyone remembers this meeting in 2016 in cuba, those issues that were discussed, the program of action for the years to come, which was formed and agreed upon then, and so far we see that it is valuable for the catholic church to preserve e, our interaction, and the call of the pope on christmas to stop e our ukraine is not an unequivocal stand on the side of ukraine in your opinion. uh. we see that it is precisely through such statements that the pope sometimes makes that the pressure that is on him turns out, but the general line. uh, common line.

uh, formed primarily by the pope of france and generally by the leadership of several of the catholic church. for the time being, it leaves room for the continuation of our cooperation and discussion of its prospects. that's why and it was said that more or less, but for now we have this call. eh, we jointly oppose the ukrainian theme, of course, it is not the only one. this is rather the topic that they are trying to use in order to achieve completely different goals, well, ukraine and zelensky and the ukrainian authorities have set an ultimatum ah a monk of the canonical ukrainian church, a monk of the kiev-pechersk lavra, before march 29 , the walls of the monastery to leave the pope expressed his condemnation on the issue of these persecutions of the canonical ukrainian church, but such condemnation. well, as if nominal, but can something change after march 29, if really physically these monks, and,

most likely, we will witness this situation, it was just sweeping out of their glue. uh, well, that's really what is happening today around the kiev-pechersk lavra and not only this is open persecution of the orthodox church in ukraine, in my opinion, this does not cause any doubts, but we remember that the topic of persecution of christians and the need to protect them was the main one on the agenda of the bilateral meeting. his holiness patriarch kirill and pope francis in cuba and in general , for many years it has been the main one on the agenda of our bilateral relations with the roman catholic church, therefore, yes, the pope has already spoken on this topic. we expect more resolute and serious statements from the catholic side, and understanding all the complexity and their position. e in this area, but nonetheless. we raise the question because the topic of protecting christians in different regions of the world where they are being persecuted

remains the main one on our agenda of the roman catholic church. ah, there is such an opinion, what is more attentive? mm, all you need now is to look closely at the downtrodden greek catholics, which is the ultimate goal of this schism. it does not lie at all in capturing some caves lavra and other canonical abodes and handing them over to schismatics. ah, seize religious power. in ukraine uniates can. you are about this theory. uh, a big religious conspiracy, uh , what do you think on the territory of ukraine? this is very, very important in connection with ukraine. you absolutely rightly noted, and one of the factors that hinders and complicates the reactions of the roman catholic church to the events in ukraine is precisely the presence of the uniates there. who are the uniates, these were once former

orthodox people. more precisely, their ancestors, who at one time came into contact with the roman catholic church on those princes. that they preserve the orthodox rites that were habitual, but everything else accepts catholic and the authority of the pope and catholic theology and so on. well, it so happened that this phenomenon of the unia itself seemed to be very aggressive destructive catholics, they thought that they would gradually, but not introduce all orthodox churches with them at all, but this did not happen, because this part of the christian world the uniates began to act very aggressively, but against the orthodox and repeatedly in the history of ukraine, it happened, what are these performances simply led them to shed blood. and by the way, saint patriarch kirill in his time. he said that the maidan would not have happened in ukraine, which happened in 2014, if it weren’t for the hellish fact that it all

goes back to its roots, but deep enough in the history of the catholic church. already recognized. the one that the union, but was an erroneous method of promoting its contacts with the orthodox world, by the way, and the corresponding provision was recorded in the joint declaration of patriarch kirill and pope francis. that's how, and your immediate supervisor. so let's call him ladogantone, does the department of external church relations manage to hit all the headlines of the world media when he spoke at the security council. oh, it was true on zoom , but nevertheless, but in general, everyone was talking about it. and that the representatives of the russian orthodox church subdivision gave the floor? and what, here he spoke and is there any result from this at all? well, we understand that, of course, the result would probably have been much higher if he had been there on

the sidelines of the un security council. yes, he could personally talk face-to-face with politicians and diplomats. but he performed on zoom nonetheless. are you satisfied with what happened after the speech had the desired effect? ​​you said that the name of antony's extradition in connection with this speech e was heard in all the media, and this is not just because the events were really outstanding never before, like this acute issue of the platform to the representative of the russian orthodox church in the security council, he was not provided with this precedent. this is the speech of the lord before the representatives of the whole world. she was of great importance, because with what we faced. that's for not only. the last year and the previous 8 years with a very specific information blockade on the topic of what is happening in ukraine in the religious sphere in the west, nobody wanted to hear and does not want to hear about it, that is

, there is a certain group of countries, certain forces that simply block the supply any information on this subject. yes, it reaches those who want this information in different ways, but when a high representative of the church brings this information face to face, what is called from the first it is perceived differently by hands, and, of course, after vladyka’s speech, colossal efforts were made to make people forget about this speech as soon as possible, so that as little attention as possible would be drawn to it, but it didn’t work out, blocking vladyka anthony’s speech, because we we know the reaction that has taken place in different countries since this speech. many have opened their eyes to the problem. with the persecution of christians in ukraine, well, those of our friends are numerous friends in the christian world, and not only those of us

supported and until now they are doing it with a vengeance, because uh, well, firstly, they received no more accurate information about what is happening, and secondly, and they can now refer to the fact that the russian orthodox church said directly on such a high platform. well, since you are talking about our many friends, and among christians around the world. it must be understood that this is not limited only to the european space, yes, but to the indian one. how many people live and average many christians. uh, russian political researcher there is already a clear formulation of the country friendly and not friendly, and everything that we do we do with an eye on which list representatives of a particular country? yes, and the russian orthodox church has this list of friendly countries and unfriendly unspoken ones, perhaps a list of friendly countries has been formed in our state and this is a guideline. e,

when it comes to the development of church projects in various states, well , of course, such a list is not divided in our country secular religious power. in practice, we are faced with the fact that in those countries that are friendly to russia , it is easier to develop church projects today. than, for example, in the same western europe where there are a lot of sanctions imposed on russia and of course, this cannot but affect the development, but of church interaction with these countries or the church presence in them, but this is not the list countries, it exists and changes. all this is taken into account as some kind of objective the reality of the outside is such a backdrop for our work, but there is no list of friendly or friendly churches. here is the most. the main thing that concerns those who support us in the christian world.

here you need to say the following. for some reason, we are used to thinking that the center of human civilization is located in europe, and now, as europe or north america says, it is so, and we need to do our best to please them. this is a deep delusion, which, probably, now it is clear to everyone that it was already such, and it also concerns the sphere of inter-resoan relations. has anyone thought about where most christians live on earth today. this is asia and africa, this is not europe and this is not north america and they say that the african continent, for example, it will become in 10-20 years, those continents where christians will live most of all in the world are very dynamic. christian churches are developing there. can we not take this into account or mentioned in the moment. yes? eh, this country today. e, in my opinion, standing in the first place already in terms of population in the world about one and a half, billion, one million, four

billion, 400 million, something like this statistics. but there is an ancient christian church there, which is also very actively developing, very dynamic of living such a tradition of a living christian faith. well, maybe it is invisible in this sea of ​​​​people who still profess hinduism . most of the vast majority of indians are hindus, but there is such a church and it also has several million people. this is not enough. just in the indian sea. i'll say it again. this is imperceptible, and in other regions of asia there are huge churches in the same korea mm in southeast asia and this is all without exception. churches are christian communities that are our partners that sympathize with the russian orthodox church, and as in the case of, for example, the church of india and its full name is the malankara church of india , they simply consider us their main friends and historical partners. there is

another church. very ancient is also the assyrian church of the east and its patriarch, marava. the third came to us not so long ago at the end of the past met with our most holy patriarch. after that, he immediately went to rome, he had a meeting with the pope. and, of course , after this meeting, italian journalists, the patriarch, marava, immediately approached him, he was not at all afraid to say openly what he thinks about it, firstly, about that e in any conflict does not happen. only one right side, that the position of russia also needs to be understood, this is in connection with ukraine, believe me, such a statement was made in europe this is a lot today, and then he said in relation to to the russian orthodox church, it is absolutely unacceptable that any calls to impose sanctions on religious leaders, on the leadership of the russian orthodox church and personally on his holiness the patriarch or the russian church itself, be subjected to any discriminatory measures, because last

year in the summer, and when we participated at a meeting of the general assembly of the world council of churches, but this is the largest platform, international for inter-resani communication, and not a little bit. the president of germany openly declared in our presence that the russian church should not be on this site, because it takes the wrong position on ukraine, so the assyrian patriarch openly stated that this is unacceptable in relation to religious communities and speaks out in the same way and, uh, supports us and many other christian leaders in africa and in asia , let's talk about other news. this is not going to happen tomorrow. but new fresh from march 26, the catholic church in germany intends to start holding official ceremonies to bless marriages to full couples. and this decision was made at the synodal, and the meeting on the reform of the catholic

church in frankfurt well, firstly, it is not surprising that germany, after all, is very far away from traditional christian values ​​here, therefore it is very liberal. ah, but now you said that now, uh, you need to look more closely, and christians in asia and africa quantitatively. they will soon transcend the same old light too. so maybe we don’t care what christians do in germany, but they want to marry same-sex couples, let crowned, and we will find our allies to protect traditional christian values. uh, elsewhere in the world. you know, we care, and we would not like it to happen that the traces of christianity really disappear in europe altogether. and those who fought against christianity many centuries in this part of the world. we understood that this goal can be achieved if the root of christian

morality is cut down, if such phenomena are introduced into church soil. and as you said, the blessing of non-traditional relationships and so on and so forth is related to abortions, corresponding to legalization in tonasia. this is a whole spectrum of issues and this is a huge front. e, along which the attack on the church is taking place, unfortunately, some christian communities in the west could not resist this struggle. first of all, of course, these are protestant communities with those of them who have already completely gone on about the liberal agenda, the russian orthodox church. a very firm categorically broke off relations, because there are no prospects for such relations, and we see how, having crossed a certain line, these communities are moving on. yes, and further and it looks like. this is already an irreversible process. unfortunately so far. it didn't apply to the catholic church. well, that's how much pressure there is. now such serious processes are developing today. in the western world, that this affected german catholics

in particular. yes, such a problem. there is, indeed, such a statement was made by german catholics. how it will end is difficult to say. the vatican, of course, does not accept such a position, that is, the official position of the pope and the holy throne. it is to prevent this. but we will see how it will turn out among the catholics. we will, of course, empathize with those healthy forces, and with the environment of western christians who are trying in every possible way to stay on this edge, those who want to. they themselves often tell us directly about this, that please be with us if we do not have contacts with you. we will be left alone in front of this terrible onslaught, pushing us into the abyss, so, of course, we do not abandon them. well, look at what is happening in england , for example, and the synod of the church of england also recently made a decision similar to what you mentioned about what is allowed in some form. here is

the blessing of non-traditional relationships, this decision is also vague, but it caused a flurry of indignation in england itself among christians. we know that today, two parishes in london, you have withdrawn from communion with the archbishop of canterbury precisely because of such a decision. and what can we say about the millions of anglicans who live in north america, africa and asia , but not categorically opposed, but such a decision, and therefore the church of england continues to maneuver and balance a little, as if without giving this decision a final character. although there is little hope that they will be able to resist this temptation before this pressure. and hungary, if we are talking about europe . of course, poland. oddly enough, where even in relation to such an issue as abortion. christians managed to defend their position. this is generally a complex topic. you look at us even in

russia does not work, in the meantime, to bring, that is , abortions because of the chi policy. yes, to remove them from the mental health system. and bring. the most important thing before the consciousness of the majority of our compatriots is that after all this is an unacceptable practice, that it is a sin, that it is scary when you can have an abortion calmly and freely without incurring at all. there is even moral responsibility for this, but in poland it’s not so much more, firstly there was a corresponding legislative norm and when they wanted to cancel it, well, there christians took to the streets, there are examples of the blessing of same-sex marriages, of course, the whole oxymoron is that e. well, for those who don't know, we have orthodox white priesthood and monks, and white priests can marry. they may have families, but catholics. it is forbidden, that is, you cannot be confessed or received communion by a married priest. well, he can bless. two men on uh, starting a family or two

women? no. well, the catholics, thank god , have not yet reached such a point as to openly bless. e two men or two women to create a family - this is just one initiative with uh, among the catholics of germany well , nevertheless, this is already such a rather indicative first sign. this is a very serious call. in fact. and as for am not a traditional relationship. they are legalized practically in the legislation of all european countries; today i will give one example. for example, finland, for example, where the relevant law was adopted not so long ago, by the way, they immediately demanded from the hungarian lutheran church of finland to accept the recognition of the relevant relations and legalize them on the church level literally. they immediately demanded this, and the finnish lutherans tried to object and they succeeded, that is, finland is in the evangelical church, not legalized.

relationship pools, uh, such unions, let's say, are not covered by the church there, but, nevertheless. here is a fact in the face where such ah, phenomena still exist, let's say, like the evangelical lutheran church in finland or the catholics of poland or the orthodox of poland who still defend their point of view , the state will certainly try to put pressure on them all the same change this point of view, and in other countries. it’s just that everything has already taken place at the legislative level, the relevant decisions and christians face a huge challenge, as if there are relevant laws in the country and you don’t follow them. so you a violate these laws for four can be subject to criminal liability, and this is more serious. what a challenge, in particular, for sermons in the church, when the priest is trying to say something, and this is contrary to the current legislation, when the sambo priest does not say, that appropriate behavior is a sin. and it's legal. what should i say? no, this is a contradiction, but in finland, in the same general case, there was a case when

not even a priest, but a former deputy , tried to bring a woman to court, and there she was threatened with 2 years in prison for quoting the bible in direct words, but speaking out, but about that unconventional relationship. it is a sin. this is what is happening in europe today and let 's remember that we have a lot of friends all over the world this church in africa churches in asia churches in latin america are millions tens of hundreds of millions of christians who do not just sympathize with us, who understand, but the situation in which the russian church and russia are today, but want to express support for us, want to be with us at this moment , extend their hand to us in the same way as we extended this hand assistance to them and in different historical periods is great. thank you father stefan for coming to us judging by

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we return to the review of the information picture now the news of the last minutes vladimir putin and recep taip erdogan had a telephone conversation, the press secretary said. dmitry peskov details of the conversation will become known later. well, erdogan's office. she reported that the leaders discussed the situation in ukraine and steps to develop relations between turkey and russia now the latest data on the progress of the special operation of the loss of ukrainian military in the krasnaya liman okupian donetsk south donetsk and zaporizhzhia direction beyond the past day amounted to about 370 people hit positions in the 12th district of the russian federation continue to conduct a special operation in the akopipinsky direction with air strikes and artillery fire from the western group of forces hit by a unit