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hello in the studio of ekaterina grachev, this is our weekly church program and we are in russia 24 interviews. we take from representatives of the church and talk about the current news that happened in russia in the world over the past week. and today my guest is the secretary for inter-christian relations of the department of external church relations stefan igumnov e, father fr. hello, glad to see you in the studio. well, look, on march 13, in an interview with taz hmm, they said that the relationship russian orthodox and roman catholic churches in the current geopolitical circumstances, the quote is being tested with more or less success. here, explain, well , we understand what the situation in ukraine is about and the persecution of the canonical

orthodox ukrainian church is the very test. what do you expect, how will our relations with the catholics pass the test, but in fact in this phrase, but the key idea is that they still more or less pass this test, because there are huge challenges that we face today how can never be before? and this is obvious to everyone, because there is a huge pressure on the roman catholic church in general on christians living in the western world for various reasons pressure that has the goal of uh, to undermine our relationship with them, these contacts are important for building such an alliance of the worldwide christian alliance this is well understood by those who are trying to prevent this, because there are or christians together, if they cooperate, they are strong and then it is not so easy to promote the most liberal agenda, which today is moving forward in all societies and hmm to achieve the goals that

are set for those who just want to tear us away from the roots of our traditional in this sense with the catholics. we have indeed formed a certain alliance in the struggle. it is against all these innovations that today the events that are taking place in my geopolitical field. everyone knows e. we have formed another challenge that they are trying to use in order to destroy our relationship, but so far this has not been successful in the first place, pope, francis appreciates, but direct the contact that was established between him and his holiness patriarch kirill, everyone remembers this meeting in 2016 in cuba, those issues that were discussed, the program of action for the years to come, which was formed and agreed then, and so far we see that it is valuable to preserve the catholic church e , our interaction, and the call of the pope of rome on christmas to stop his ukraine is not an unequivocal stand on the side of ukraine, uh

, we see, just through such statements that the pope makes a couple and makes manifest, then the pressure that is put on him, but the general line. uh, common line. uh, shaped primarily by pope francis and generally by the leadership of the somewhat catholic church. for the time being, it leaves room for the continuation of our cooperation and discussion of its prospects. that's why and it was said that more or less, but for now we have this call. uh, we jointly oppose the ukrainian theme. she is certainly not the only one. it is rather a topic that they are trying to use in order to achieve completely different goals, well, ukraine and zelensky and the authorities of ukraine delivered an ultimatum to a-a monk of the canonical ukrainian church, a monk of the kiev-pechersk lavra, before march 29, the walls of the monastery to leave the pope expressed his condemnation on

the issue of these persecutions of the canonical ukrainian church, but such condemnation. well, as if nominal, but can something change after march 29. if really physically these monks, and, most likely, we will witness this situation, they will simply be swept out of their cells. uh, well that's really what's going on today around the kiev-pechersk lavra and not only this is open persecution of the orthodox church in ukraine, in my opinion, this does not cause any doubts, but we remember that the topic of persecution of christians and the need to protect them was the main one on the agenda of the bilateral meeting. his holiness patriarch kirill and pope francis in cuba and in general, for many years it was the main one on the agenda of our bilateral relations with the roman catholic church, so yes, the pope spoke out to all his wives on this topic. we expect from the catholic side and more resolute serious statements, but understanding the complexity and their position uh in

this area, but nonetheless. we raise the question because the topic of protecting christians in different regions of the world where they are being persecuted remains the main one on our agenda of the roman catholic church. ah, there is such an opinion, what is more attentive? mm, all you need now is to look closely at the downtrodden greek catholics, which is the ultimate goal of this schism. it lies not at all in capturing some pechersk lavra, other canonical cloisters and hand over to schismatics. ah, seize religious power. in ukraine , the uniates can. you are regarding this theory of a large religious conspiracy, and what do you think on the territory of ukraine? this is very, very important in connection with ukraine. you absolutely rightly noted, and here is one of the factors

that restrain and complicate the reactions of the roman catholic church to the events in ukraine is precisely the presence of non-ates there, who are understood by this, and once former orthodox people. more precisely, their ancestors, who at one time came into contact with the roman the catholic church on those princes. that they keep the orthodox rites that were customary, but everything else accepts the catholic and the authority of the pope and theology, catholic and so on. well, it so happened that this phenomenon of the unia itself seemed to be very aggressive, destructive catholics, they thought that in this way they would gradually introduce all orthodox churches not with them at all, but this did not happen, because this part of the christian world, the uniates began act very aggressively, but against the orthodox and repeatedly in history ukraine, uh, it happened that these

performances simply led to the shedding of blood. and by the way, saint patriarch kirill in his time. he said that maidan would not have happened. here in ukraine, which happened in 2014, if it weren’t for the hellish fact that it all goes back to its roots, but deep enough in the history of the catholic church. already recognized. the one that the union, but was an erroneous method of promoting its contacts with the orthodox world, by the way, the corresponding provision was fixed in the joint declaration of patriarch kirill and the pope francis. here's how, and your immediate supervisor. so let's call him vladyka antone, does the department of external church relations manage to hit all the headlines of the world media when he spoke at the security council? it was true according to zoom, but nevertheless, but in general everyone was talking about it. and that the representatives of the russian orthodox church subdivision gave the floor? and

what, here he spoke and is there any result from this at all? well, we understand that, of course, the result would probably have been much higher if he had been there on the sidelines of the un security council yes, he could personally tete-a-tete to talk with politicians from diplomats. but he performed on zoom nonetheless. are you satisfied with what happened after the speech had the proper effect? ​​you said that the name of vladyka anthony in connection with this speech e was heard in all the media, and this is not just because the events were really outstanding never before, like this acute issue of the platform to the representative of the russian orthodox church in the security council, he was not provided with this precedent. this is the speech of the lord before the representatives of the whole world. she was of great importance, because what we faced.

here, during not the last year, but also the preceding 8 years with a very specific information blockade on the topic of what is happening in ukraine in the religious sphere in the west, nobody wanted to hear and does not want to hear about it, that is, there is a certain group of countries, certain forces, which simply block the flow of any information on this topic. yes, it reaches those who want to receive this information in different ways, but when a high representative of the church directly face this information conveys, what is called first -hand, it is perceived differently and, of course, after the vladyka's speech , colossal efforts were made to make people forget about this speech as soon as possible, so that as little attention as possible would be drawn to it, but it didn’t work out , the speech of vladyka anthony, because we know the reaction that took place in different countries , many eyes were opened to the problem. with

the horses of christians in ukraine, well, those of our friends are numerous friends in the christian world and not only who supported us and before that now they are doing it with a vengeance , because uh, well, firstly, they received no more accurate information about what is happening, and secondly, and they can now refer to what the russian orthodox church said directly on such a high platform. yes, you started talking about our many friends, and among christians around the world. after all, you need to understand that this is not limited only to the european space, yes, but to the indian one. how many people live and among there are many christians. uh, the russian political stem of shmat already has a clear formulation of the country friendly and not friendly, and everything that we do we do with an eye on which list representatives of this or that country are from? yes, and

the russian orthodox church has this list of friendly countries and unfriendly unspoken ones, perhaps a list of friendly countries has been formed by our state and this is a guideline. uh, when it comes to the development of church projects in certain states, well, this list, of course, in our country secular religious power is not divided. in practice, we are faced with the fact that in those countries that are friendly to russia, it is easier to develop church projects today. than, for example, in the same western europe where there are a lot of sanctions e, there are imposed e against russia and of course, this cannot but affect the development of e church interaction with these countries or the church presence in them, but this is not about this list of countries exists and changes. all this is taken into account as an objective, some kind of external reality, such a background for our

work, but there is no list of friendly or friendly churches. here is the most. the main thing that concerns those who support us in the christian world. here you need to say the following. for some reason, we are used to thinking that the center of human civilization is located in europe, and now, as europe or north america says, it is so, and we need to do our best to please them. this a deep delusion, which, probably, is now clear to everyone that has already been such, and it also concerns, uh, the sphere of inter-resoan relations. has anyone thought about where most christians live on earth today. this is asia and africa this is not europe and this is not north america and they say that the african continent, for example, it will become in 10-20 years, the continents where christians will live most of all in the world very dynamically. christian

churches are developing there. can we not take this into account, or the country mentioned in america yes, today, in my opinion, already in first place in terms of population in the world, about one and a half, billion, one million, four hundred billion, 400 million, some kind of statistics like that. but there is an ancient christian church there, which is also very actively developing, very dynamic of living such a tradition of a living christian faith. well , maybe it is invisible in this sea of ​​​​people who still profess hinduism . most of the vast majority of indians are hindus, but there is such a church and it also has several million people. is not few. just in the indian sea. i'll say it again. this is imperceptible, and in other regions of asia there are huge churches in the same korea in southeast asia, and this is all without exception. churches are christian communities that

are our partners and that sympathize with the russian orthodox church. and as in the case, for example, the church of india, its full name is the malankara church of india , and they simply consider us their main friends and historical partners. there is another church. very ancient is also the assyrian church of the east and its patriarch, marava. third came to us not so long ago, at the end of last year, met with our most holy patriarch. after that, he immediately went to rome, he had a meeting with the pope. and, of course , after this meeting, italian journalists, the patriarch, marava, immediately approached him, he was not at all afraid to say openly what he thinks about it, firstly, about that e in any conflict does not happen. only one right side, that the position of russia also needs to be understood, right? in connection with ukraine, believe me such a statement made in europe this is a lot today, and further on, he said in relation to the russian orthodox church that it is absolutely unacceptable, in general, any calls

to impose sanctions on religious leaders on the leadership of the russian orthodox church and personally on the most holy patriarch or the russian church itself to subject to any discriminatory measures, because that last year in the summer, but when we participated in the meeting of the general assembly of the world council of churches, but this is the largest international platform for christian fellowship, and no less. the president germany openly stated in our presence that the russian church should not be on this site, because it takes the wrong position on ukraine, so the assyrian patriarch openly stated that this is unacceptable in relation to religious communities and they speak the same way and, uh, support us and many other christian people in africa and asia here talk about other news. this is not going to happen tomorrow. but new fresh from march 26

, the catholic church in germany intends to start holding official ceremonies for bless the marriages of same-sex couples, and this decision was made at the synodal, and the meeting on the reform of the catholic church in frankfurt am main well, firstly, it is not surprising that this is still germany, it is very far away from traditional christian values ​​here, therefore it is very liberal. ah, but now you said that now, uh, you need to look more closely, and christians in asia and africa quantitatively. they will soon transcend the same old light too. so maybe we don't care what the christians in germany do, but they want to marry same-sex couples, let them marry, and we will find our allies to protect traditional christian values. uh, elsewhere in the world. you know, we care, and we would not like it to

happen that indeed in europe these traces of christianity will disappear altogether. and those who fought christianity for many centuries in this part of the world understood that this goal can be achieved if the root of christian morality is cut down, if such phenomena are introduced into church soil. and how are you voiced the blessing of non-traditional relationships and so on and so forth attitudes towards abortion, corresponding to legalization in tonasia - this is a whole spectrum of issues and this is a huge front. ah, on which there is an attack on the church, unfortunately, some christian communities. the west did not resist this struggle. first of all, of course, these are protestant communities with those of them who have already completely gone on about the liberal agenda of the russian orthodox church. very firm categorically broke off the relationship, because there are no prospects for such relations, and we see how, having crossed a certain line, these communities are moving further and further. yes, and further and it looks like. this is already an irreversible process.

unfortunately so far. it didn't apply to the catholic church. well, that's how much pressure there is. now such serious processes are developing today in the western world that it has affected german catholics in particular. yes, there is such a problem. indeed, german catholics made such a statement. how will it end say difficult the vatican, of course, does not accept such a position, that is, the official position of both the pope and the holy see. it is to prevent this. and here is how it will turn out, among the catholics we will look, we will, of course, empathize with those healthy forces. and among the western christians, who are trying to stay on this edge in every possible way, those who want to stay on this edge. they themselves often tell us directly about this, that please be with us if we do not have contacts with you. we will be alone in front of this an onslaught, a most terrible onslaught, pushing us

into the abyss, therefore, of course, we do not abandon them. well, look, what is happening in england for example, and the synod of the church of england, too, has recently been deprived of captivity. this is similar to what you mentioned about what is allowed in some form. here is the blessing of non-traditional relationships, this decision is also vague, but it caused a flurry of indignation in england itself among christians. we know that today two parishes in london have withdrawn from communion with the archbishop of canterbury precisely because reason for this decision, let alone the millions of anglicans who live in north america in africa and asia and not strongly opposed. eh, this is such a decision, and therefore the church of england continues to maneuver and balance a little, as if without giving this decision a final character. although there is little hope that will allow them to resist this temptation before this pressure. and

hungary, if we are talking about europe. of course, poland. oddly enough, where even in relation to such an issue as abortion. christians managed to defend his position. this is generally a complex topic. you look at us, even in russia it’s not possible, in the meantime, to bring, that is, abortions due to the compulsory medical insurance policy yes, withdraw from oms, and bring it. the most important thing before the consciousness of the majority of our compatriots is that this is still an unacceptable practice, that it is a sin, that it is scary when you can have an abortion calmly and freely and it is absolutely impossible. for this even moral responsibility. well, in poland it’s not so in poland, firstly, there was a corresponding legislative norm and when they wanted it cancel, well, there christians took to the streets, there are examples of the blessing of same-sex marriage, of course, the whole oxymoron is that uh. well, for those who don't know, we have orthodox white priesthood and monks, and white priests can marry. they may have families, but

catholics. it is forbidden, that is, you cannot be confessed or received communion by a married priest. well, he can bless. two men on uh, starting a family or two women? no. well, the catholics, thank god , have not yet reached such a point to openly bless, and two men or two women to create a family - this is just one initiative with, uh, among the catholics of germany . well, nevertheless, this is already such a rather indicative first sign. this is a very serious call. in fact. and as for non-traditional relations, they are legalized in almost all european countries. today i will give you one example of finland, for example, yes, where the corresponding law was adopted not so long ago. by the way, they immediately demanded that the hungarian lutheran church of finland to accept the recognition of the relevant relations and legalize them literally at the church level. they immediately demanded this, and

the finnish lutherans tried to object. they succeeded, that is, finland is in the evangelical church, not legalized. hollow relationships, and such unions, let's say , are not covered by the church there, but, nevertheless. here is a fact in the face, where such uh phenomena still exist, let's say, here, like the evangelical lutheran church in finland or the catholic poland or the orthodox poland who, after all, defend their point of view, without fail , the state is still trying to put pressure on them to change this point of view, but in other countries. it’s just that everything has already taken place at the legislative level, the relevant decisions and christians face a huge challenge, as if there are relevant laws in the country and you don’t follow them. this means that you a violate these laws, which means that you may be subject to criminal liability, and this is serious. than a challenge in particular for sermons in

the church when the priest tries something to say, and this is contrary to the current legislation, when the priest bona himself says that the corresponding behavior is a sin. and it's legal. what should i say? no, this is a contradiction, but in finland, in the same general case, there was a case when not even a priest, but a former deputy , tried to bring a woman to court, and there she was threatened with 2 years in prison for quoting the bible in direct words, but speaking out, but about that unconventional relationships are a sin. this is what is happening in europe today and we will remember that we have a lot of friends worldwide. this is the church in africa, the church in asia, the church in latin america, these are millions, tens of hundreds of millions of christians who not only sympathize with us, who understand, but the situation in which the russian church and russia are today, but want to express support for us, want to be with us in this moment

they extend their hand to us in the same way as we extended this helping hand to them in different historical periods. thank you father and stefan for coming to us in court as our guests. thanks a lot. educational programs without registration

and the information hour, we start with urgent messages from the ministry of defense on march 26, an attempt was made to carry out an attack by an unmanned aerial vehicle, such as a swift - this is 141 in strike performance, if we talk about the grouping of russian air defense systems, which is deployed in the tula region. the s-300 pantsir-s-1 anti-aircraft missile system, as well as more than 21 electronic warfare systems, go into it. they provide reliable cover for this direction, and also according to the equipped department. one more piece of news let's open, and in particular the complex rap in the field, 21.