[000:00:00;00] sci., head of the laboratory of nano biotechnology at the moscow institute of physics and technology and head of nano biomedicine at sirius university maxim petrovich nikitin maksim petrovich, laureate of the presidential prize of the russian federation in the field of science and innovation for young scientists hello, thank you very much for taking the time to come to the studio. hello big. thank you for calling. maxim petrovich is the main thing that we teach at school and that many people , including me, still remember. and for those who do not remember, we will now remind you why dna is double, because it has this great property. complementarity, because one piece, well , one piece fits the other, there are two pairs of molecules that fit together, well, such medium-complex molecules, and hmm, complementarity is not limited

to me. they just always taught that the main thing in dna is this and complementarity is needed not only there it is needed for uh information on proteins, in the end for transcription. here , look, dna is also stored in e, inside the nucleus, that is, there in the chromosomes and so on. so, when they divide there, it goes into the cytoplasm. in general, a lot of different. e options. where is the dna is located not only in the nucleus, if we look specifically, let's say on the cytoplasm? or simply, let's say on some kind of test tube or a destroyed cell, when, well, it’s not necessary to say yes about the core, but in general, in a broad sense , broth. including the primary boulevard of linen, the broth from which life was born , we will return, but if we start to analyze, how will small segments of dna behave, that is, single-stranded ones that are still useful to pieces? yes, and quite short, that is, centimeter lengths. yes,

namely 100 letters there is something like that. yes means then, if we do not add a complementary chain to them in this broth, yes, that is, this ideal mirror pair, yes, then how they will interact. it used to be thought that significant information might not be transmitted there , that is, if we take the most non-complementary pieces of dna, that is , it was believed that they could not transfer information to each other, then. i don’t understand what it means that dna transmits information to another dna , which means, let’s, well, now, in order, the first one, but, as it were, the option for transmitting information is when we formed a complex, that is, a complex was formed. and let's say. we had some kind of gene, well, let's say the same ernk, yes, from which the protein is debited. here is a mechanism. e in the body, when well sticks to this rna, dna associates with it, that is, some kind of

enzyme that cleaves rna and due to this, protein ceases to be produced. and so, it seems like this uh act, uh association, yes, transmitted information, that is, we added a certain olik olga nucleoti, that is, a short dna target he contacted mrga and cellular the machinery used this way of transmitting information to influence performance. gena explain to me so that i understand completely, and in the situation that you just described, who passed the information to whom as concisely as possible. it's just that today we have information and the role of dna exchange will be the key word, so it makes sense to immediately understand what is available . in this regard, when we talk , well, when i talk today about the information contained in dna, it’s not necessarily the color of the eyes, that is, some sign of a person who is clearly it is read there, yes, it is understandable. yes, yes, this is generally any information. that is, when we somehow influenced something, that is, we have something that existed on its own. let

a short single dna into the cell, uh, there are literally 100 letters. as you said, we cause a certain reaction in the cell , the synthesis of some protein is suppressed, or vice versa, uh , it is spurred on, just transmitting information that somehow someone threw this dna there, this may be the experimenter. it could be some kind of natural american medicine. yes, that is, anything. yes it entered the cage. and so, if it cannot transmit information to anyone, that is, it runs and does not interact with anyone. yes, only the cell, as it lived, lives, and the original idea was that if dna does not have a complement. uh, he’s finishing up on her, then nothing, in fact, happens, because she hasn’t been connected with anyone before. now, if some dna leads into the cell, then we carried out an analysis in order to understand whether they need to act on this gene or whether it will not be due to what we looked at if it is complementary this gene or practical complementary, that is, one letter may not match. it's

okay. this mutation happens and so on, but if for the most part it is complementary, that is, we inject the medicine olga nucleotic, anti-sensulmantic, and into the cell. he is looking for his teddy bear, for example, mrnk. that is, this is already a half-working agent . that is, what was written off from food and so on. it concerns something that takes the information to the right place. so, here, respectively, how would we understand? this medicine will act on this e genes or not, we look, if it matches somewhere the letters completely almost completely match, then it will be yes. what did i show in my work? yeah, what if you give me any gene well, i took specifically , there is a luciferase gene from a firefly a gene that produces a luminous protein, because it is very beautiful it is interesting to detect, yes, so i took it, and some kind of oliganucleotide that you can give me short-cut dna yes, which is now also used for the treatment

of diseases. and you can name me any the sequence that is most non-complementary to this agent , so i will show you what is in the destroyed cell model. that is, not yet alive, but destroyed cells , this gene will act very specifically and influence the work of this gene. that is, it will control the work of this gene, and only this is magic for biologists. yes, that is, they do not understand what is meant, because if this olik is absolutely not a compliment to the maximum. in a comment on this, he should never encounter these changes. now the question of how it really affects when we do it in a destroyed cell or even later we will do it in a living cell will affect. the cell is a very saturated system. there are a lot of molecules there. it's not just this and that. yes. there are many other molecules there, and we have this, uh, therapeutic one, let's say. he can about

interact with the other one with the other. and this already with this you do not approve at all. this is the violation of complementarity, that they stick together. so they don't have to tears. say something else, that in this very crowd in pandemonium that is going on in the cell. they push someone, relatively speaking, they push someone else, and in the end , pinky's pushes reach the target to the target just like that, that is, all these pushes and so on. they are very weakly afinite, that is, weak. uh, interaction having weak affinities. that is, we take a lot of weakly interacting uh dna strands and they end up. i'm here what i show in the article in these very weak interactions , a huge amount of information can be stored. and just interesting. here is how i reveal this phenomenon. and the way i, well, show how it can work. how much information it can store is just very interesting

to understand such quantitative and qualitative characteristics. that is, before. we ignored this interaction. we thought, well, it can't. there is nothing useful to be. at what point and why did you stop to think that this is an accident, you are now talking, as if it were a mechanism. which acts, which is, which exists. and when you open it for the first time, i think, well, by chance there is something someone poked someone. no, here, in fact , everything was insanely interesting at the time of inventing. so it's a very, very fundamental powerful process. why not? mental process? this is a fundamental process. why because it is based on the basic interaction of the molecules of all, yes, and the law that describes it was finally formulated in 1864 . the law of active masses. this is what is taught. uh, they're all chemists. she is there, well, either in lyceums or there in the first and second year, uh , chemical universities, that is, very, very base. and the law, accordingly, it

describes all these weak interactions between molecules. now, when we look at the ensemble of molecules in which there are such interactions, here i am already like a mathematician. i am a graduate of the physicotechnical institute and there is a lyceum of the second school. i had a lot of mathematics, and when studying, and i understand that if there is a law, and which is a non-linear law, yes, that is, if we have some kind of interaction described by well , a non-linear equation like this, if you just say, so then in this nonlinear equation can store information, and i like i have seen this law. i realized that dna is amazing. here's a cool property that doesn't exist, and which other molecules don't have , that if we take two chains. yes, and we’ll start to change a-a, well, let’s say we took some random chain , we put it here, we take a second complimentary chain to it, we first take a complimentary one, they will have some kind of maximum affinity constant, that is,

the strength of affinity between these marinas, and then we’ll start do, and reduce the substitutions in the letters of the complementary complementary complimentary. yes, then we will very clearly easily control this force of interaction and we will be able to more or less. you tell me, here, pick me a piece of evidence that will interact backwards with a specific force. i will easily solve this millisecond problem for you. that is, moreover, i can solve such a problem for you. for dna if you tell me, you have, for example, there are six or 100 or competitors, and there must be such forces from kinship between them. uh-huh here you write to me that here is the strength such a force such a body, and for dna i can solve this problem, that is, take one, as it will be meaningless from the point of view of genes, right? yes, yes, but the forces will be two forces will be the same. yes, what do you call non-linear in this task of transferring these kicks from that olig that would have been thrown at home, but look. if we mix two

weakly interacting nucleoti rollers, yes, they will begin to form a complex stick together, fall apart stick together fall apart, this is a continuous process. it is a reversible reaction as well. yes, chemical it is described by a certain law, that a certain the constant is equal to the product, and there of the products, and to the product, well, divided by the product of the concentration of the reagents. well, this is a non-linear equation. here , respectively, in this equation, you can store information at the same time, see why i called this term molecular switching, because this is called molecular switching. yes, that is, this process of transferring information by storing information in such interactions. i called this phenomenon molecular switching, because there really is one switch, let's say, and many uliknucleotides interact with it simultaneously. this is who, that is, roughly speaking, now, if we look before, we have a dna chain, if you ask, what kind of

debt suits him right away, and this is more than that, the prices creek clearly wrote that if the dna sequence of one is known the chain then the second one is automatically predefined. and i said that and if we consider not athens well , weak athens interactions, yes, then i can have an almost infinite number of olgas that will interact. still, yes, yes weak, not eternal, they will connect, but they will always be switches - this is who in this in this, who? ah interacts with many. that is, we have one goal and many interact with it at once. this is the difference, which, well, as it were before, well, biologists looked at mutations. yes, that is, there is the concept of single nucleotide polymorphism, when well, i do not know there is radiation. yes, one letter has changed. yes and so, well, the same biology was very actively considered, but that's just the transfer of information through several interactions. but i at least did not find it in the literature. here. well, in general, the reviewers did not

find it, and so on. that is, maybe someone published it somewhere, but you know that in all the stories about dna, i always have a little bit of an outsider as a person. i was surprised by the picture that dna seems to know what it wants to do, here they are connected. here is her compliment. so you say that the role of one hundred cosmic processes that randomly push there is very great, but they allow, nevertheless, what you call information get from the thrown-in olig to the target. it's such a stochastic story. it's random happening. this is a very good question here . well, here it is rather necessary to go into theory in physics, probably, and so on, where randomness where how nature uses it. that is, it is not very clear right now. and, that is, i demonstrated this possibility of regulating the work of the gene to the most non-complementary in the model of a destroyed cell. what did i do? that is, i, well, in fact

, there was a cell in which the membrane was torn. yes and all the machinery, as it were, remained, which builds proteins and so on. yes, but the membrane, which can selectively pass different chains in different ways, and removed it so that i clearly know what molecules i have. which dna strands are in the test tube, to accurately prove that everything is working correctly, however. now it is very important to understand in a living cell. these are your expectations. what about should you cells there everything will be different or still or rather everything is exactly the same mathematics. says it will be exactly the same the same, but the question remains, what did nature come up with, does it use this mechanism for useful information transfer or is it implemented absolutely exactly, but it interferes with nature and nature tries to come up with some kind of add-ons to exist, despite this snake that it is

and now the question is, but our quality of life and, in general, all living things, they use it in some way , they use it, yes or or it’s more of a noise that interferes with this well-coordinated, just complimentary story, yes, yes, well, here the question of noise, that is, noise, it's like, uh, well , different people have different understandings of noise. yes, there is noise, which, well, just exists somewhere. yes , significant events take place in the background. and there is noise. well, something like. you know how when you try not to drown, but the water supports you, that is, you have. yes, there are, uh, a lot of different interactions. they are weak, that is, it is not difficult for you to raise a drop. yes , but also when you jump into the pool. well, you do not reach the bottom, well, with the same consequences. that is, here, as it were, the question the benefits of this noise and how it works. now this one is completely incomprehensible. i have a hypothesis for sure where they are. well, where would i most likely look for this e, the mechanism, like nature, can actively use it,

yes, tell me, well, look, that is, for example, this process. it is very energy -efficient, that is, no covalent bonds are built in it, that is, bonds that require a lot of energy, respectively, ah. doesn't connect for a long time. they just push. basically, roughly speaking, they coincided, then there is and then a certain rebalancing of forces. i have many hypotheses, where this mechanism can be realized? enjoy nature, such as memory. here imagine that , well, there is such a concept of instantaneous memory, for example, i looked at the table and looked away, and i remember for a while. uh, what's in there? this is very. eh, if we will, and for all such moments, synthesize a new molecule, that is, form chemical bonds so that information about what i saw, yes, it will be very energy-consuming and, well, as it were very effective at the same time, uh, the mechanism that, well, i published

it is very organized due to the fact that there is no formation of chemical bonds and there is only a rebalancing of forces, respectively, if , uh, nature, let's say, starts to store information in this process, then it will probably be much more energy efficient than all the other hypotheses that are currently available about information storage. that is, you are looking in this case for as an application , you are looking for something that is not expensive. cheap, so that the energy is cheap and may not be very durable. well, god bless him, yes, and here is just the fragility, an important cool thing, because we understand that this is the mechanism, and the exchange, well, with such weak interactions it is easy to forget. well, someone else interacts another from the old forgotten. and this is very similar, the way we remember. yes, it is likely that this is implemented in memory, but this is a hypothesis. tell me, please, i can't help but ask about another hypothesis that immediately

suggests itself. well, the origin of life is a terribly complicated thing. and now, to immediately the cell started to work, let the simplest and with this and with this and with this it is rather difficult to imagine and we do not know what physical process. maybe we do not know for sure yet. and it is possible your hypothesis absolutely. therefore, maybe you have a hypothesis about how it could look like. that's not up to the cell, not yet to the double helix. but some nonsense at the moment when it occurred to me that such a mechanism could exist, well , practically the first thing i thought was the origin of life to me. well then yes, i see. now there have already been many articles about what is well on the primary planet. we had lightning, nitrogen, oxygen, but that's all and uh , they have already shown that rna could be synthesized there, it seems to mean almost completely, but to say that we immediately had a double helix. i can't believe. that is, this probability is almost

the same, it seems to me, as i am currently tinting on mars. accordingly, it is much easier for me to understand what is going on with you, e.g., the synthesis of many of its number of chains yes of different rna dna there and so on. yes they are all interact and transmit information through this molecular switching mechanism. this is where natural selection comes in. or something starts, naturally, selection. and now i have it so interesting, very philosophical, such thoughts mean how to fix some useful feature in this mechanism , it’s clear what can be done, and building more and more complex systems. yes, but it was exactly how to fix me that at some point the idea came to my mind that it was the double helix that gave her a chance, which fixed this sign, that is roughly speaking, you accumulate a lot of mutations in the system. yes, it is also generated at some point when the system is already very good. the double

helix is ​​being completed optimally. yes, and it has been gilded for a long time. that is, you succeeded there, well, roughly speaking, well, some much more complex systems that can already be limited in volume there. well, how to build a membrane there and so on. this is the transition from the primary so the primary planet to the double helix. hmm well, sort of, as obvious from the math. it follows very well through molecular switching. maybe there was something else, but why if this process is now clear that it stores a huge amount of information, in particular. i, for example, well, in the modeling in the article i show how good it is. well, how well the system of a thousand and one olga nucleotin works. they are on the computer, yes. well , it is still in modeling, that is, not in the experiment, but nonetheless. i think that now we'll break a little bit of prediction technology, and it's all being implemented. i think it's very easy in a cage. you are talking about uh chain dna uh not rna for some reason, if it

one chain does not matter to you dna or rna, or it is important for you that it is there exactly a piece of dna and no, this is why the mechanism does not matter. i showed on both rna and dna just, you know, the natural properties of using these two molecules. they are slightly different in terms of this molecular switching mechanism, no difference at all. oh thanks for that clarification. do you call the dna molecular computer a computer or what? see i in the articles, i showed the creation of some computational modules. that is, i showed, let's say a memory cell, that is, in which we can store some number and then remember it in digital form; i showed a system for calculating the roots from let's say. well, from numbers from 0 to 15√2 numbers are also in binary format. and showed separately. already in terms of elementary algebra, that is, let's say,

my dna solves while in simulation, but solves the equation x² = sinx here is a good accuracy. well, that is, i ended up optimizing the system, as it were, when the accuracy was better for all points than one percent. how much more pushing? these are what you need. look, now i just remember that a relatively simple task y = sinx, that is, calculate the sine of x from any x. there are only six rollers of nucleotides on one period, six more olga nucleotides are required. that is six chains. yes, yes, but we process information from two. that is, i look for two concentrations, one i have, as it were, an output ult, well olga nucleotia, that is, e where the concentration of which is y is read and y is the concentration of the other, which i add systems of this x, respectively, these six processing ones are for me. now dna considers that this is a sine - this is yours. you select such interactions so that they are considered to be something else, and

nature is possible when you do this for some other purpose, if you do, yes, therefore, that is, as if, if we want to create a dna computer, then this mechanism at the moment is perhaps the most complex dna computer so far and the most, well, let's say, a different number of systems have been proposed for dna computers. here, if we take exactly universality, that is , a computer that can do everything, that is, not one specific sharpened task can be solved. but more or less everything, and this mechanism we play switching allows you to create the most complex computer. let's sum it up. ah. i learned from you that such random interactions are weak and somewhat stochastic. here in this cellular crowd from one to another. seemingly out of control. and this quite provides itself with a certain flow of information that is very useful. very big and here i am showing. how big it is is

amazing. i hope these don't run out. the next step you'd be waiting for, what do you want. right now, it is important for us to prove that, and this mechanism is actually implemented in the cell, that is, well, either to prove, or to prove that it interferes with nature, it bypasses it, or yes, or that it is, well, somewhere uses it. now we are actively engaged in this in parallel. we are creating much more complex computing systems, including for creating the dna of computers there. a separately, there is a question that even if we understand that this mechanism is not used by nature, but there is a very important and primary task - this is to shortchange this entire system in such a way as to make genes and therapeutic drugs safer. that is, as soon as we introduce some kind of dna rna into the systems, the influence is where we previously know that it can be spreading the influence, until it is proven that the spread and that's it. it’s important for us to calculate very much, because, well, it’s understandable. what

well, now everyone there has learned about there dna rna vaccines, and so on, there is a chance that we will have many such actions in the near future, and the sooner we learn this switching mechanism. well, the closer the better, the safer, we will be able to develop the following. well, how would the formulation or drugs? i wish you success, thank you. all the best,

goodbye.

we'll take care of this. it will be the honest detective.

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