studied, most importantly, we have learned to portray the activity. it is very important. just remember, right there we have people poisoned with sidor now. why? because, when hemo was still starting, remember, when business came to you and said they tortured us with checks, they come, drag us money, and our business stops. we thought for a long time, how to make sure that the inspectors do not pull, the grandmother did not work, but we do not know. we how to get rid of it, and we agreed that we will close the checks, in fact. it is when some people don't like temperature. for us , the temperature is taken by a thermometer against the wall and the temperature. naturally disappears. well, finally, the last one again. you understand what's the matter. you are the goal when we talk about the state administration, we are all the time under state rights. for example, i don't see grigorenko. by the way , dmitry will probably have to do what he said with an ingenious control system. the control system

is not a public administration system for a public administration system. main understanding. goals that we want goal setting. we talk about new economic models all the time. and sorry, someone said what a model is. what is the purpose? what kind of model are we building, instead we say that we went through this year better than expected, well, firstly, either we thought badly, or something else, but sorry , this does not inspire when we say that we went better in the stage went really much better, but tell me where we're going. what is the goal we set here i would very much like to. i think that both business and everyone would like to hear exactly this is what goal we set, well, finally, our last priorities. now, if you ask any of those present here, what are our industry priorities. here are allocated cars structure and so on. anyone can name a priority industry and for some reason they will not be mistaken, because all of our industries are priority. but if you ask any of the audience, can you name? at least one industry that

is not a priority. you will not be able to do this, because we do not have non-priority sectors, i will briefly say how we are the budget will be prioritized. here ask look at silyanovo. he won't even answer in the face to see that i'm right. so here goes the budget. at first we secrete everything from everyone, because there is not enough money, and then we will quietly and carefully add it to someone and there will be real priorities, but only this model does not fly, it will not fly. she understand, it's a vicious it's an absolutely vicious model. we are, in this case, uh, essentially orienting the business. it's the scariest thing when you say that we can to do for business, we focus it not on competing for the quality of goods for price reduction, we focus it on who will quickly reach state support. no matter what she will be before her

, you know, such a peculiar fun attraction in the soviet rest house was called she runs in bags there wins. as you remember, not the one who runs better, but the one who runs better in bags. this is the principle. we try all the time to prove the truth that we once said. e belarusian jew. i'm sorry, no antihimedes, who actually created the radio broadcasting system of the united states, i say right away that the art of managing public money consists in constantly transferring them from one to another until they finally disappear. well, strictly speaking, in this situation, usually the last phrase is the end of the german ones, don’t worry anymore. everything is fine. in such cases, they usually ask, a goat. what can you suggest? so, can you tell me what to do? you know, that's in anticipation, when you are almost 70, probably for the first

time in my life i will say. yes, i know the first step to start with. this first step is for everyone, especially the one who makes the decision, to answer for himself how he wants to remain in the memory of his children and grandchildren and try to honestly answer himself at least to himself this question. this is probably the hardest step, the first step. well, as they say, now our friendly chinese, even in a thousand years, the path always begins with the first step. andrey mikhailovich thank you very much, you were, as always, inimitable, but, in my opinion, even surpassed himself and you know when i listen to you, and also, uh, as you said, the point

of view of the head of one of the largest banks and the point of view of the chairman of the investigative committee. i think that things are not so bad in our country, because thank god people express different points of view. they compete for these points of view and end up. this is the key to making a choice and making the right decision and i think it's very important that uh people are not afraid to speak up. your point of view. this may be the most important thing. er, the first, if not the most important takeaway from the analysis of what you said about. various campaigns, i would ask you to put up a qr-code so that we can download colleague's voting tools

here, if everything worked out, then i ask you to immediately vote on the answer to the question. still, we need to start. before we talk about how and where to move, we need to understand what we did wrong. please turn on the voting mode. so security certificate like enter colleagues? yes, it's better, probably through the cellular network to enter. if you can, give it a minute more, because not everyone did it.

download the application this is a collaboration, when the government helps business, but colleagues, in any case, we can already say that the voting took place and the absolute priority, apparently, may be influenced by the tragic emotions that andrey mikhailovich’s speech caused almost 60 percent of those present believe that the system

of public administration is inefficient. this is one of main factors of our failure. in general, we let's then we in this direction and we will direct our discussion. i would like then i was planning to start a little bit from another, but still one question that is of great interest to business. i would like you to answer it. well, probably two people and anton germanovich. otherwise, if possible, it will still be. will there be a tax increase next year? simple question yes it is a simple question indeed, will there be an increase in costs? it seems that yes, then you need to understand who will pay for them. just if we want more

expenses of significant large expenses, then you need to understand, it means, where will the money come from, there is no money out of thin air, or we will increase the deficit and, accordingly , inflation rates will be paid for by the population and business, or we will increase taxes for this, too. well, i don’t know what taxes can be discussed there. both of them are either or we are all the same. we will take our additional expenses from the current budget pie and make it so that the expenses that we have today. we will transfer them, either for later, or put aside and turn on what we need now, this is the most correct one, but this is the most difficult one. this is less feasible, as shown in practice. unfortunately, but this is exactly how you need to do it, understand, increase costs. i 'll just say one more number. over the past 3 years, from 19 to 22, we have increased spending by

one and a half times, you can imagine one and a half times , there were 18 22 29 trillion rubles left. come on. well, where next? it's just not possible anymore, that's why. uh, the best answer is to climb inside. i find the expense from there. thank you very much anton georgievich thank you for very clear answer. so far, really no one has figured out how to increase, uh, expenses without increasing income, if i may your answer. well , in fact, it is difficult to add something now to the end of germanovich, because it is not entirely clear, as it were, and the amount of additional expenses that need to be provided. here but what we cannot avoid is this is a conversation about prioritization. we really talk about this a lot there, but as soon as we come to the adoption of some serious forks in serious decisions, it is clear that this is not to be touched. it's it's gotta it means assignment. well, and so on and so on. therefore, i think that the amount of additional

needs that will be declared. well, on this cycle it will force us to approach this, and we talked about it yesterday, will we go the way of really making tough decisions there, when we cut something out or will we go the way we go usually when we are all frontally reduce and then add somewhere. here, most likely , of course, as a result, we will go to them for the most part, as it were, yes, but he is politically simpler, but this, probably, is the reality that exists, and this is obviously the second one. uh, the second source, which we will discuss heavily. again, we will return to the budget rule anyway, because in terms of the parameters that we agreed on a year and a half ago, we will not go any further. here. well, it seems to me, as if behind all these conversations. there, taxes will probably be there, the most recent one, and how taxes are there is such a very non- obvious topic. there are a lot of things there. like, yes. so there are taxes on consumption, there is ndpi there for commodities and so on and so

forth. all this must be looked at, it will be a function of state and assignment, including export markets, because we cannot afford anything we do. so, uh, stopping the economy also needs to be understood, because if there is nothing to share the pie, then it is pointless to try to take more from the business or save money than it can afford, so this will be such a difficult process, but it seems to me that we , while there we greatly simplify and do not pay attention to a lot of other issues, we hired a bunch of inefficient solutions from us . the volume of cross-subsidization of various things in the economy, and in each industry yes, it can be measured in the tens and hundreds of billions, and this is even an unconventional issue in the power industry, where we have cross-tariffs and so on. here we are with maxus now sat. he says, look, well, we have connections there 35 billion of cross -subsidization, when we try to provide a certain standard everywhere and everywhere, like, yes, so we load efficient companies with inefficient costs. that's why me it seems that we will have to look at everything

much more broadly and get into the economy, including natural monopolists, because he is the first one, as it were, yes. we can endlessly plan large investment programs there, which means you conjure that this is the amount of investment. we need it at any cost and so on. but when we look at each specific project, it has a payback period of 40-50 years. or actually, even there we can't find any payback there. you understand that it's just, well, some social things or our vision, uh, which is then not justified. yes, like the same forecasts for the growth of energy consumption that we made 10 years ago, for which we made a lot of investments. and now, as it were, the debts of the companies hung, right? or the same investments there, i don’t know, including in the railway infrastructure. yes, we have a gigantic dispute there now, under what we are building all this, as it were, yes, and who will return it, then , that’s why it seems to me that we still need to change the quality of the economic discussion, we need to change and leave there to raise taxes and not raise taxes. we have a lot. what else , right? where we do not want to look, where we need to make difficult decisions, but the simplest thing is to set the agenda to raise the question or not? taxes. thank you, if

i may, before we move on to this agenda. there are two more obvious sources that should probably be identified after all. the first is the increase in borrowing. uh, and this is a potentially temporary source, you can’t increase borrowing indefinitely, but in a hot moment, probably, uh, you can imagine this let our uh debt-to-gdp ratio be one of the best in the world. eh, well, this topic, probably, can also not be discussed. this is obvious. for the reserve, uh, after all, uh, what andrey kostin indicated was privatization. eh, after all, the structural impact of privatization is hard to overestimate for the flexibility of the economy for efficiency and in terms of closing the fiscal hole that will arise anyway in the coming years. do you think it is possible, here is a significant source for the next 2 years. uh, covering the budget deficit through privatization. well, with

from my point of view, privatization, what is necessary, but this is rather not a fiscal function, yes, this is a function of economic development, but for this it is necessary to treat it a little differently. just privatizations. it seems to me that this is some kind of toast with us, as it were, and the whole grimm of privatization. so we start there in the head some large companies. yes , it means their sales, and around this a lot of things immediately arise. privatization should be technology. we have thousands of objects, thousands of objects, and in the country, which, in principle, as if the state owns, but does nothing about it. yes, business knows. there are the same sanatoriums, yes, there, in the caucasus , uh, you will drive there, like in the mineralnye vody and so on . no, it means trying to get into the federal investment program. so, well, and so on. why is this? all? let's calmly put it all up, put it up for a transparent auction and with investment conditions, and the business will gladly take it , invest to build something new, and so on and so forth. such examples there, well, i don't know any governor. tell me how many objects he has there

on the territory of federal property, with which the federation simply does not get his hands on it, as it were, yes, no one happens or does anything. here but it seems to me that i would return to the topic of borrowing more. she will not be so simple obviously. why because , uh, the debt is small, and we can and will borrow. here, but at the same time, as it were, yes, state borrowing. this is also competition for the resources of the central bank. they'll put it on anyway. well, he does not voice it, but nevertheless, there are some guidelines for the growth of lending, so you need to understand that the more the state borrows, the less someone should borrow. who will it be. consumer lending and mortgage business, we traditionally go through this discussion every time, but it will take place. how is it that you remember the name of sleep badly conducive to memory recovery, reduced fatigue and improvements. now i won't forget strawberry ice cream four

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all day on my feet and my back gets tired and earn i lead a sedentary lifestyle just one capsule a day to protect the joints and spine. we have a birthday and we have prepared a surprise for you in our application , a product of your choice for only 1 rub. delicious point 1 year together. will fall significantly more investment projects will be financed through commercial mechanisms through banks, but we are moving on to discussing the topic of management efficiency anyway. i would still say not only state administration as a whole, because sergei anatolyevich kolgotnin said that we all like to rely on public administration and the effectiveness of public administration. at the same time, we don’t really like to poke around in our own eye,

because each of us draws, including huge reserves for improving efficiency. and when he says that you all want to do something at the expense of the budget. and unfortunately, as the minister of finance, i don't see results, then it's not a question that i don't want to give money for this. show the result of what we have invested. there is a lot of truth in this. uh, i think that businesses should essentially learn to live on the costs and solve their problems from their internal sources. there are such sources in our economy today, but let us return to the topic of public administration. how can we to do one of such obvious things today is what the government is doing, and andrei mikhailovich said that the government has built up in recent years. uh, well, you can say an unprecedented control system. e, by linking

all the indicators of the program and national projects and setting the appropriate kpis for them and financing and require the achievement of results. i think everyone recognizes that progress. there are visa numbers there. uh, if possible, dmitry nikolaevich, you have been studying for 3 years. uh, this topic in the government. prior to that, you had been in business for many years. here. can digitalization be such a driver to increase the efficiency of public administration and how expensive is it? does it also require significant budget expenditures? thank you, germanovich praised the government in the morning, but i can tell you that the effectiveness of, uh , mishustin's government, is mainly based on the fact that management is based on data, where to get the data from and how to see clearly, of course, the quality of the data. uh, this is the most, most important challenge with which we collide. if somewhere something goes wrong

, wrong decisions are made. believe me , this is not because of what is going on in the government. this means that incorrect data was taken in order to make a decision, we are able to quickly analyze and quickly make these decisions now about the fact that the little piglet is not enough for everyone, yes, and how they act in conditions when there are limited resources and an increasing number of tasks , of course, is needed here. the same calibration. we are already tired of talking about it and i can’t say that we have the real decision is made on the basis of a fair calibration with a priority of what will give the greatest effect, but if you fight honestly for money in a limited budget, when you need to give up something inefficient or populist even in the social sphere, i won’t scare anyone now . what exactly to give up. this is still a really honest calibration will show, but in a fair fight. i'll tell you that tourism,

for example, has returned there, of course, it provoked me, the slide showed, it would definitely won, because there is support for every ruble invested. we now see 10 rubles. business is ready to bring uh, in this direction, because in fact tourism is like a sphere. it's a very synthetic thing. it combines 53 different spheres and gives a very fast effect. there were also some very interesting figures. if you have noticed , every year our citizens take 35 billion dollars abroad. and these are just numbers, again, to the question of the data that we see transactions on cards. we don't see what's in the cache. we are not see the cost of paying for hotels. after all, not the cost of flights by foreign companies, but there was also a good figure that in the twenty-first year this difference of 20 billion. she did not leave dollars, but remained in russia and business - this felt these investments further question. what to do with this money? because now this is the organic growth of the old from history, when these

taxi companies are still near berization. they came in tourism due to the fact that we have a completely catastrophic situation with infrastructure and huge demand, unsatisfied, of course. now we all need to create this infrastructure as quickly as possible, and the state does not take money from tourism to do this. thank you very much, and every year about 50 billion goes to the exact support of projects and creations there. the condition for the infrastructure to be created, but here is the most important potential , just it is located, where the artificial intelligence will now be most effective , which has now come up. we say will create a qualitative leap of change in everything, including tourism, since tourism is very aggregated. ah, the client path.

imagine, in order to get to the diaghilev, seasonal in perm, you have to if you don’t have your own concert, if you don’t have a platinum card, but make your own taxi to the airport, buy a ticket from there , get somewhere else to stay in a hotel and i can continue this. and you know, it’s better than me that you save your travel agents in life, because they can model for you to make this client path and just platform solutions that 62% of tourists are ready to use chatbot, why communicate with tour operators? this is what it means that just the platform solution gives you the opportunity to flexibly plan online auctions for prices, but for this in hotels and so on, in order to make your customer journey beautiful and convenient, there is great efficiency and a lot of money consumers, for which we must fight, provided that the existence of infrastructure and generative and

artificial intelligence is estimated specialists will bring in the near future to the tour industry an additional approximately 300 billion dollars. these are very serious. well, globally in the world, a piece of the pie to fight for and an example of effective sizing and decision making for prioritization on a tight budget. thank you very much, two topics are really important. if i can say, uh, i would paint on a question for you. eh, after all, we are now discussing the prospect of the next, well, 2 years, let's say, yes, a maximum of three years. here on this horizon you see space for a sharp increase in efficiency with the help of numbers and whether state administrations are ready for the massive introduction of artificial intelligence. well, firstly, the ministry of finance has already cut the costs of digitalization twice , so we will definitely be more efficient, because no one has removed the task and

the grigorenko system continues to control all these parameters without money, it has become half as much. so, we still have indicators, so, to be honest, in this sense , we are somehow adapted, so we will look for a new option, and here, of course, the key the history of the centralization of all our technical developments, so we have a big project, a success that you know well this is, of course, a new point of efficiency, because when there is less money, but that task remains the department is forced to look for more meaningful, rational ways to spend smaller budgets, so here i see that we will continue the movement simply for less money. i hope here at the expense of more through the use of more efficient solutions. for example, if we are talking about industry support. here we are there. we allocated money. these companies stopped allocating money from us last year, otherwise it’s like, they began to allocate money to customers. e companies of traditional sectors of the economy. that's what we got, we got 5 rubles for each ruble of budget support. additional

investment from the business side, this is exactly the model when we use limited budgetary resources to pump up, uh, budgetary ones. uh, corporate expenses, yes, for many companies, when we come, we say, we are ready there 20% total finance costs. they start playing this game with you and not. there are those smart companies that take 100% of the costs in this situation. that's the whole financial sector. we don't get a penny of support. well, for many companies, our ruble becomes such a good, stimulating measure to spend their five. well, in this sense, i believe that this practice is effective and the less money we have, the more effective we will be. so i think, unfortunately, thank you very much, but how, how, how not paradoxical. eh, paradoxically, i support this point of view, because as soon as the money runs out, the brains turn on. and this is a necessary element to increase any efficiency. in this sense, they are probably, uh, absolutely correct, but we understand that

in the coming years, if we want to increase, uh, the effectiveness of state governance through digitalization, then digitalization will still require investment. i don't believe there is a need to invest more in the market. still, it would be a shame if you they also offered money. to the financial sector for a solution in my opinion, we must offer you and the entire market. uh, our advanced solutions and it's a shame to take money for this from the budget. but uh, nevertheless, the digitalization of public administration will require additional costs. it is obviously without money. this is impossible. if i may. i would like to ask a question, uh, the second topic , which dmitry nikolaevich outlined, uh , tourism, we have two largest operators in the country, one, unfortunately, today is under the threat of nationalization. here is the largest today is