hello ekaterina, you are a rare guest with us, but i understand that you, like no one else in the russian orthodox church, have a lot of business trips and are very tense now. uh, the church’s foreign policy agenda, of course, your most discussed last meeting of his holiness patriarch and cardinal mateo zupipi, you were also present at this meeting, of course, and there was so much noise, including secular media around this name and surname matteo zupi. even those who are generally far from church affairs know exactly who they are talking about. well, what do you think it was? much ado about nothing. or it really was a worthwhile meeting. well, before you start answering this question. i still have to separate two parallel, let's say, planes. yes, because we must remember that, on the one hand, the vatican is a state with all the necessary state attributes, therefore it has its own

foreign policy and its own relations, including with the russian federation as a state, on the other hand, there are, uh, inter-church relations of the russian orthodox church, the roman catholic church, and everything that concerns the trips of cardinal matteosupius to both moscow and kiev took place on the eve of the trip, these trips went along the line of relations between the holy see and the state of the russian federation and ukraine. and when cardinal manti was going to come to moscow, he turned to the networked patriarch kirill with a request that his holiness the patriarty receive him. this request, of course, was granted and cardinal sounds visited the residences of his holiness the patriarch, and a long conversation took place among the participants. whom i had the honor to be and i, uh, as a bishop, who for a long time was responsible for the life of orthodox parishes in italy , i can say that it was with the help and assistance of the roman catholic church.

our parishes, of which there are about 80 today, churches receive their use on pianos, where we can perform divine services, where parishes are formed for this, of course, his holiness the patriarch thanked his interlocutor cardinal zub and, in turn , told his holiness the patriarch briefly about the meetings that he had in russia, uh, meeting with uh, high-ranking representatives of the russian state. after cardinal itching turned over from italy, he made several statements of comments regarding the content of these meetings and reported that the vatican currently does not have any plan for a peaceful settlement of the conflict in ukraine , which his main task during his trips to ukraine and russia was to listen and convey as soon as possible. information to the pope, what is called from the field, his holiness patriarch kirill, during a meeting with cardinal zupe, shared with him his vision of what is happening in detail told him about the humanitarian activities that the russian orthodox church has been carrying out lately both to

help refugees and to revive destroyed churches. and in many other aspects. the meeting was. in my opinion, very constructive benevolent and e. i am very glad that it took place and that such communication took place, more than that, cardinal zuby, at the very beginning of the meeting, said that pope francis personally really wanted such a meeting with his holiness the patriarch to take place and the pope personally told me about this the day before, when i met him in rome, he really wanted the cardinal of the dentist to inflict in connection with the most holy patriarch and learn from him from the patriarch of a large russian church, which unites not only believers in the russian federation, but also in ukraine, he also learned his vision. e. the reasons and e, the current state of the conflict that is unfortunately taking place in ukraine today what did you convey to him, what do you think the mateozupi learned for the first time, the patriarch told the cardinal in the tooth in detail about that, i

will say without exaggeration, the terrifying situation in which today is the canonical ukrainian orthodox church about the persecutions that are unleashed today by the leadership of ukraine against the church. e about the latest developments of events that we are witnessing unfortunately, on the example of the kiev-pechersk lavra. uh, the expulsion of believers from churches, the violent seizure of church property. the initiatives are aimed at a total ban on the ukrainian orthodox church. the patriarch told his interlocutor in detail about this more and more quietly, of course, he mentioned that this conflict has actually been going on for a long time. years, what else from the fourteenth year when? the situation in donbass has become aggravated, his holiness the patriarch also appealed to international leaders to religious leaders with a request to pay attention to what is happening with a request to intervene. we note with regret that the calls of his saintly person largely went unheeded and i must note that one of

the few addressees of those appeals that his holiness the patriarch sent to the international and political and, i repeat, the religious leader was pope francis, who recently, having received a letter from his saint, in which his holiness the patriarch spoke about the state of affairs in the kiev-pechersk lavra, she publicly reacted to this letter and during one of the general audiences. what pontias are traditionally held on wednesdays, a large number of pilgrims gather to find audiences, there are broadcasts from all over the world. the pope said that his thoughts about his experiences today with the brothers and the kiev-pechersk lavra, bearing in mind, of course, that there was news that the brothers simply want to expel from the monastery from this the great shrine of our church, when i met with the pope , i thanked him on behalf of his holiness the patriarch for the fact that, despite the complete silence of the world community, which, of course, everyone understands everything, everyone knows everything, but simply does not want to talk about it publicly.

papa was one of those who raised his voice and, er, said his harsh word, the meeting was with a politician. until the meeting in the patriarch, and the moscow gray teeth, and what else did you and the politician talk about, regarding the meeting with the pope, then, uh, the pope received me on the very day when he was discharged from the hospital the day before he underwent surgery. and on the very day he returned to his residence in the house of st. martha and canceled all upcoming meetings. he received me, and we had long conversations. uh, the two of this squad and i, of course, italian italian speak italian quite a lot. and of course, i thanked the pope, and you thanked me his holiness the patriarch for his support, which he so repeat publicly and publicly rendered to the brothers and the kiev-pechersk lavra. we discussed, of course, their state of our bilateral relations were some practical issues that we needed to discuss in particular during

this meeting. e, the pope announced that he intended to send his representative , the cardinal from zubi, to moscow, and, uh, expressed such a wish that the cardinal tooth. and if the schedule of his holiness the patriarch allows it , the patriarch adopted it, which actually happened, what is happening in the last days, what is the freshest around the lavra. well , unfortunately what is happening today is consistent and methodical implementation by the state authorities of ukraine of their plans for kiev of the pechora lavra, which they did not hide, which they announced quite a long time ago and without waiting for the appropriate decisions that could legitimize. uh, everything that is happening in africa now is the kiev authorities. we just began methodically to slowly print one by one to withdraw. uh, in fact, from the use of various buildings of the lavra, already the printed residence of the primate of the ukrainian orthodox church in his beatitude metropolitan onuphry in a number of other corps, all

this is happening methodically, almost on a daily basis, now with the use of physical force. we saw. unfortunately, very sad footage from the kiev-pechersk lavra, as the believers are trying to defend the monastery buildings, as they are pushed back by the security forces with the use of. uh, violence, we saw that believers were not allowed into the lavra during worship there and, uh, personally, my heart is deep earlier or the footage when i saw how the priests who performed lavrov in the temples at that time divine services, not being able to take communion with the faithful, who stood behind the bars of the fence and through the bars taught the holy mysteries of christ to people. those who could not get to the service, all this is a very sad illustration of what is happening today in relation to the ukrainian orthodox church. in this regard, his holiness patriarch kirill e, quite recently sent regular appeals of the international instance to representatives

of local orthodox churches and the leader and on the glorious e, confessions , the corresponding statement was literally made the other day synodal department for church-society relations. media we see that our appeals, unfortunately, still remain, isn't it just that the russian orthodox church abroad has no friends left. we have many friends abroad. and i can say that in behind-the-scenes conversations, many, uh, we are supported by many. frankly speaking, they understand what is happening, but unfortunately, the political situation. today , in many respects, many are simply afraid to say so, there are primates who sent theirs. uh, relevant messages of concern about what's going on, but there are those who are for different reasons. it’s hard for me here, probably, their conscience should answer this question. they refrain from this and prefer to remain silent, aligning themselves with the patriarchate of constantinople, which

, unfortunately, stands behind all these processes and lawless anti-canonical ones, whose decisions regarding e-church affairs in ukraine, they, in fact, became the catalyst for everything that is happening today. happens, and in your memory, when was the last time that the political conjuncture had an impact on church authorities. i also rank myself among such a young generation of the clergy. and, of course, nothing like this has ever happened in my memory, and now i can’t recall any examples from church history so offhand, but what i see now personally raises questions for me. here, i will give you an example recently i have. in a meeting with one primate of one local church. i won't. maybe talk about who it is, but this is someone from, say, those churches that are traditionally considered to be the greek world and i just understand what events will obviously take place in ukraine in the context of constantinople's attempts

to legalize the church schism. i met with this primate and, at the request of his holiness patriarch kirill, told him about the dangers, e, fraught with the possible decision of constantinople a, as it was already clear. where everything, as they say, is heading. he listened to me very attentively and said such words to me that i will probably life to remember what you know antony maybe you are right, all these arguments that you set out, maybe they are all true. but you must understand that we greeks grow up from childhood with the perception that the patriarch of constantinople is a symbol of our ilinism. and no matter how much he was wrong. we cannot betray our element. i said your offer with me. i'm a young man, maybe i still don't understand something. tell me, please, what is more important or laziness. or loyalty to the truth, loyalty to the canons and loyalty to the hierarchal oath. he remained silent in response to this question. this

is about the question of the conjuncture, which may be political and may be associated with some national aspects, alas, this is what our friends have mentioned, but many. uh, let's say churches, traditionally included in the orbit, the influence of the phanar. yes , many of them understand everything, in fact, even some bishops, and who belongs to those who traditionally support the phanar. they also say on the sidelines that we do not agree there. we are against. well, we cannot, we cannot betray the ecumenical patriarch, who is in in this situation, i made such a decision, and once i remember in one dispute even one bishop, when we discussed with him what was happening. he tried to give some analogies, comparing the confessions of the ukrainian schism to the patriarchs in the flmium with how it was settled, which lasted for several decades, our separation from the russian zaruba. from above it, he was trying to let me know that it's the same thing. naturally, i objected to him, and he said in response. yes, you know , if the patriarch of constantinople says that

this chair is a canonical bishop orthodox church. so, this is how it is , what you can talk about with this, the orthodox church and its hierarchs are accused of defending the imperial views of russia here. uh, i recently had an interview with vladyka. savva he says, i do not even hide. e, my commitments, and with an imperial look , i see nothing wrong with this. and if we are criticized, for this we can criticize in response for them or not. i think that every uh priest , hierarch, layman has his own civic position. can e perceive it as it seems to him necessary and necessary, and hmm everyone has some political views, but as for the position of the church, that's what it can be difficult for our church to blame. so this is in some kind of imperial because our church is multinational , our church unites a huge number of people belonging to different cultures to

different civilizations, speaking different languages. every time we meet. i remember from old memory my ministry abroad and the last years when i was directly involved in life our uh, foreign and parish parties, but you can always see in them, uh, the huge variety of church life. uh, a huge variety of those people who come to the temple, uh, who continue to hold this idea and different political views, which is especially evident now in the context of the conflict in ukraine, i must say that, uh, this is strikingly different from the patriarchate of constantinople, which we accuse of these imperial ambitions, because you will come to any constantinople parish abroad in italy in america first thing. you will see the greek flag there, everyone speaks greek there , and i know. on the example of, uh, some of my acquaintances priests who, not being ethnic greeks, serve in the parishes of the patriarchate of constantinople. they never become their own there, they are always there,

well, as if they understand that there are greeks. and they are our church. she is completely deprived. and this kind of relationship with both the parishioners and the clergy. we have priests and italians and french and americans and parishioners, respectively, as i am talking about it. said above. here. see that our church is tolerant. and to all independence from cso relations? ah, to all the parishioners or to the priests too, because i wanted to ask you about the fate of the priest who changed the text of the prayer for peace on his own. yes, because of this, he was removed from the ministry, not deprived. himself, as far as i understand, but still a ministry, and recently constantinople accepted its jurisdiction. how to deal with this, that on the one hand you say that the russian orthodox church is open. well, let's say for everyone, including people, e from

the donbass people of western central ukraine but at the same time, john of the roof was removed from the ministry for changes in prayer. how does this affect the image of the russian orthodox church abroad, firstly, with regard to the father on the feather grass and a number of other priests, uh, which were recently the decision of the patriarch, bartholomew. that's how the flourish is taken into its jurisdiction. i 'm talking about priests from lithuania from belarus, uh, just recently. they. actually. they were the first whom the patriarchs. uh, turned mine on jurisdiction, then those are the decisions that the hierarchs had adopted in relation to. they were accepted because these did quite well. specific disciplinary violations are canonical violations that are subject to economic law. if every priest arbitrarily changes the words of prayers, then, of course, this

will not end in anything good. well, essentially. today we see how constantinople is building some completely new model of church life, new cleology and in particular. eh, thinks he is is not only, as it were, the first among equals , which he is revered by the orthodox churches. eh, we give him, as it were, a special role, a special place in the family of local orthodox churches and endowing him with a consensus of this role. well, he now considers himself. uh, well, as if by some kind of e analogue of the pope, who, as is known in the catholic church, e has, as it were , a slightly different status, a different role, which is enshrined in the relevant economies of the catholic church, believes that he is in particular. maybe just take it like this accept, and in violation of the canons, i must of course. there say accept e any priest from any of any other local church. and in our jurisdiction, referring to the so -called right of appeal, we patriarch parla did not even sit down to get acquainted with

these materials. he just got a statement from these priests. they asked him to accept them, citing the fact that they were being persecuted for political reasons and that he would do so with a stroke of the pen. uh, he did it, well, actually , after what he did in ukraine, uh, endowing him with a sacred garden. eh, never former ordained persons and e, from them formed the so-called orthodox church. ukraine, of course, it’s already difficult to surprise us with something, but conscience still cannot put up, of course, with the fact that what the patriarch of constantinople is doing today, destroying the unity, let’s give orthodoxy from high matters, but external church relations. they are very complex. eh, let's get back to earthly affairs. you have lived in italy for many years, now you have recently had connections there, what do ordinary italians say about the conflicts between russia and ukraine what

they talk about this war? well, when i see my friends, whom i have left in italy a lot from the time of my ministry there. of course, they ask about how things really are. many understand that this is the flow of information that falls on them and the media. it is clearly painted in only one color. and the world cannot be black or white asks, how do i understand this for myself, asks about what, what can be done so that peace comes sooner? of course, as a clergyman, i first of all talk about what the church is doing today to help all who suffer from this conflict. they say that of course. and for the western world, which has taken a completely understandable position in this conflict, nothing good comes from this ordinary people. the same simple italians, of course

, note. how much their life has changed in economic terms, because utilities have risen in price for what used to be so simple and affordable water, heat, light. today has acquired a completely different price. the country's economy is suffering, but if we are talking about italy, it is obvious that the suffering from what is happening they are shared, including by society in the west, although they try not to notice it and not talk about it. and there is no feeling that many in europe a are already tired of the news about this conflict, and some are not even interested in this at all. that's what i was told recently. how is it in some restaurant in venice, a russian person paid with a card of a kazakhstani bank and a waitress girl. and why is she from poland and hmm would be surprised

that russian cards do not work, that is, for her it was some kind of discovery. and in general , there is, uh, a kind of feeling that u is already defined there, let's say, the means of people who are not interested in the political agenda. and that is the news. you've already pretty tired yourself, haven't you, i think that in many respects you are right, and i can just say, speaking about our, for example, parish churches abroad. we once talked with you already during one of our meetings that at first our church publications, our priests, our believers became the subject of venting some emotions from, uh, local residents, and the temples were painted by the priest. and they wrote me some letters with threats. and now it's all gone. e such a feeling that really, as if the intensity of e, emotions, he was already asleep. eh, i can say, personally about myself, that coming

abroad. on behalf of the holy patriarchate, i often travel abroad. i have never noticed any discrimination of any views towards myself. uh, on the contrary, it seems to me that well, everything would they wanted everything, probably because of you, to resume flights between countries, to resume normal economic relations, and human relations, it seems to me, they are preserved, and such ties, including between churches between believers, they contribute a lot to this. well, in conclusion, everyone is still worried about this issue, especially after zelensky’s meeting with patriarch bartholomew, and in a number of media there was information that the meetings were quite substantive at it, and the transfer of the kiev-pechersk lavra was discussed all the events, and around it and inside the monastery , they are directly related to these negotiations, whether this is so or not, whether the laurel will be transferred or not, it is difficult to answer this

question. eh, well, in the context of what we see today, i’m not afraid of this word of predatory politics, constantinople, which is everywhere now where it is given at least some opportunity to try. to intervene to accept priests to seize church property to create some problems for the russian church, where such opportunities arise for him, he does it now one of the new such uh vectors for applying their efforts is the baltic states, this is lithuania uh. this is estonia, where the patriarchate of constantinople has long established a parallel jurisdiction and brought a split, uh, into the lives of the orthodox believers of this country. i do not rule out that in the context of ukraine , the patriarch of constantinople has claims, including to property in this country. e it is difficult to say what

the patriarch will come to in otholomew. e in the hope of realizing their ambitions and it is difficult to say what the ukrainian government will do in the hope of inflicting another blow to the canonical church and deprive it. uh, her temples, her shrines, including such a shrine. we will see how events develop, but, unfortunately, taking into account what is happening today. i cannot rule out that such a transfer and some other negative development of events will not take place, we will still hope for a positive scenario. thank you very much, vladyka anthony , for taking the time to come to our studio. thank you for the invitation ekaterina thank you

rostislav zhuravlev, a russian journalist at the ria novosti anchorage agency, died in the special operation zone, three of his colleagues were wounded by shrapnel, according to the ministry of defense vehicles , was in the affected area of ​​a cluster bomb as a result of a group strike with long-range, sea-based high-precision weapons on the territory of the academy of ground forces of the armed forces of ukraine in the city of lvov , a large number of polish and german mercenaries stationed there were destroyed.

plus 35 in the shade in greece and these are flowers in several provinces of china, plus 52 and also in shadows. how do they survive in such heat, but until the end of this hour we will continue to analyze the technologies of the information war against russia , the stop fake program. and land pirates of the 21st century the eternal water issue all the news of the central asian region for a week of a special military operation in the zaporozhye region , a convoy of cars with russian journalists came under fire from ukraine. this is a military reporter for the ria novosti agency, one of them, rostislav zhuravlev, died. he was 34 years old. the head of the union of journalists of russia expressed condolences to the family and colleagues of rostislav and said that another journalist of the agency, a photojournalist, is ready to help the family of the deceased. konstantin mikhalchevsky received a shrapnel wound in his legs, he is conscious , according to the medics, his condition. stable also injured, the correspondent is known to roman pain.