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month iota says you can, try the first month for only 399 rubles. decide how many gigs and unlimited apps. need you can yota hello in the studio ekaterina gracheva from our weekly church program and we are on channel russia 24 with representatives of the russian orthodox church discuss current secular news. and today i have the head of the department for external church relations of the moscow patriarchate and metropolitan anthony of volokolamsk as my guest hello vlads hello ekaterina, you are a rare guest with us,

but i understand that you, like no one else in the russian orthodox church, have a lot of business trips and are very tense. now. uh, the church foreign policy trip, of course, the most discussed is your recent meetings of the holy patriarch and cardinal mateo zupe. of course, you were also present at this meeting, but there was so much noise, including secular media, around this name and surname of matteosu. wait, whoever is far from the church department knows exactly who they are talking about. well, as it seems to you, it was a lot of ado about nothing. or really. she was worth meeting. well, before you start answering this question. i still have to separate the two. uh, let's say parallel planes. yes, because we must remember that the vatican on the one hand is

a state with all the necessary attributes of the state, therefore it has its own foreign policy and its relations, including with the russian federation as a state on the other hand, there are inter-church relations between the russian orthodox church and the roman catholic church, and everything related to the trip of cardinal matteosupius to both moscow and kiev took place the day before, these trips went along the line of relations between the holy see and the state of the russian federation and ukraine and when the cardinal sounds was going to come to moscow he turned to his holiness patriarch kirill with a request that his holiness the patriarch receive him. this request, of course , was granted and cardinal sounds visited the residences of his holiness the patriarch, and a lengthy conversation took place among the participants of which he had. as a bishop who for a long time was responsible for the life of orthodox parishes in italy, i can say that it was with the help and assistance of the roman catholic church. our parishes of which there are about 80 today on the pianos receive their use

churches, where we can celebrate services, where parishes are formed, for this, of course, his holiness the patriarch thanked his interlocutor cardinal zub and, in turn , told his holiness the patriarch briefly about those meetings that he had in russia, uh, meeting with uh, high-ranking representatives of the russian state. after cardinal tooth rolled over from italy he made several statements of comments regarding the content of these meetings and reported that the vatican does not currently have any plan for peaceful settlement of the conflict in ukraine that his main task during his trips to ukraine and russia was to listen and convey to the pope as soon as possible. during the meeting with cardinal zupe, his holiness patriarch kirill shared with him his vision of what is happening , told him in detail about the humanitarian activities that the russian orthodox church has been carrying out lately both to

help refugees and to revive destroyed churches. and in many other aspects. meeting was in my opinion very uh, constructive benevolent and uh. i am very glad that it took place and that such communication took place more than that. cardinal teeth, at the very beginning of the meeting, she said that personally pope francis really wanted such a meeting with his holiness the patriarch to take place and the pope personally told me about this the day before, when i met with him in rome, he really wanted the cardinal dental to inflict in connection with his holiness the patriarch and learn from him from the patriarch of the great russian church, which unites not only believers in the russian federation well, in ukraine, among other things, i learned his vision, uh, the causes and uh of the current state of the conflict that is unfortunately taking place in ukraine today. what did you convey to him, what do you think the matheut of the teeth learned, for the first time, his holiness the patriarch told the cardinal in the tooth in detail about, well, without exaggeration, i will say

the horrifying situation in which the canonical ukrainian orthodox church is today. although the persecutions that are unleashed today by the leadership of ukraine against the church. e about those latest developments events that we are witnessing unfortunately, on the example of the kiev-pechersk lavra. eh, the expulsion of believers from churches, the forcible seizure of church property on their own initiative, aimed at generally complete bans on the ukrainian orthodox church. the patriarch told his interlocutor in detail about this more and more quietly, of course, he mentioned that this conflict has actually been going on for many years, what else since the fourteenth year when? the situation in donbas escalated, his holiness the patriarch also appealed to international leaders to religious leaders with a request to turn attention to what is happening with a request to intervene.

we regret to state that the appeals of his saintly person largely went unheeded and i must note that one of the few addressees of those appeals that his holiness the patriarch sent to an international and political and, i repeat, a religious leader was pope francis, who recently, having received a letter from his hierarchy, in which his holiness the patriarch spoke about the state of affairs in the kiev-pechersk lavra, publicly responded to this letter and during one of the general audiences. what pontic traditionally holds on wednesdays , a large number of pilgrims gather for these amazing events, from all over the world there is a broadcast. the pope said that his thoughts of his experience today with the brothers and the kiev-pechersk lavra mean, of course, that there was news that the brothers simply want to expel from the monastery from this great shrine of our church, when i met with the pope, i thanked him on behalf of his holiness the patriarch for the fact that, in the complete silence of the world community, who, of course, everyone understands everything, everyone knows everything, but they simply do not want to talk about it publicly.

papa was one of those who raised his voice and, uh, said his harsh word with a pontic. see you in the patriarch, and the moscow gray series of kirill dzupei. and what else did you and the candy wrapper talk about, regarding the meeting with dad, then, uh, dad received me on the very day when he was discharged from the hospital the day before he underwent a surgical operation. and on the very day when he returned to his residence in the house of st. martha and canceled all upcoming meetings. he received me, and we had long conversations. uh, this is the answer together and i, of course, italian italian dative italian perfectly speaking, and of course i thanked the pope on behalf of his holiness the patriarch for his support that he so publicly repeated to the brethren of the kiev-pechersk lavra. we discussed, of course, their state of our bilateral relations , there were some practical issues that we needed to discuss we specifically during

this meeting. uh, dad said that he intends to send his representative cardinal zupe to moscow and e, expressed such a wish that cardinal zube, and if the schedule of his holiness the patriarch allows it, be adopted by the patriarch, which, in fact , has taken place, what is happening here in recent days, which is the freshest around the lavra. well , unfortunately what is happening today. this is a consistent and methodical implementation by the state authorities of ukraine of their plans in relation to his pechora lavra, which they did not hide, which they have already announced quite a long time ago and without waiting for the appropriate decisions, which could legitimize. uh, everything that is happening in africa now is the kiev authorities. they just began methodically to slowly print one by one, uh, in fact, from use. eh, the various buildings of the lavra, the already printed residence of the primate of the ukrainian orthodox church in his beatitude metropolitan onuphry, a number of other buildings, all

this is happening methodically, almost on a daily basis, now with the use of physical force. we saw. unfortunately, very sad footage from the kiev-pechersk lavra, as the believers are trying to defend the monastery buildings, as they are pushed back by the security forces with the use of. eh, violence, we saw that believers were not allowed to the lavra during worship there and, uh, personally, my heart is deep earlier or the shots when i saw how the priests who performed in the temples of the laurels at this time of worship, not being able to take communion with the faithful, who became behind the bars of the fence through the bars , taught the holy mysteries of christ to people. who could not get into the service that's all is a very sad illustration of what is happening today with respect to the ukrainian orthodox church. in this regard, his holiness patriarch kirill, most recently sent regular appeals from the international instance to the primates of the local orthodox churches

and the leader of the glorious e, confessions , a corresponding statement was literally made the other day by the synodal department for relations between the church and society. media we see that our appeals, unfortunately, are still not heard, is it that the russian orthodox church abroad is not left friends. we have many friends abroad. and i can say that in behind-the-scenes conversations, many, uh, we are supported by many . frankly speaking, they understand what is happening, but unfortunately, the political situation. today, in many respects , many are simply afraid to say so, there are enterprises that sent their own. uh, relevant messages of concern about what 's going on, but there are those who are for different reasons. it’s hard for me here, probably, their conscience should answer this question. they

they abstain from this and prefer to remain silent, in solidarity with the patriarchate of constantinople, which, unfortunately, is behind all these processes and lawless anti-economic ones, whose decisions regarding e-church affairs in ukraine, they actually became the catalyst for everything that is happening today. and in your memory, when was the last time that the political conjuncture had an impact on the church authorities. well, you know, i still rank myself among such a young generation of the clergy. and on of course, there has never been anything like this in my memory, and now i can’t recall any examples from church history so offhand, but what i see now personally raises a question for me. eh, here, i 'll give you an example recently i had. i will not meet with one primate of one local church. maybe we are talking about who we are talking about, but this is someone from, say, those churches that are traditionally considered to be part of the greek world and i just understand what events will obviously take place in ukraine in the context of attempts by constantinople

legalize church schism. i met with this primate and, at the request of his holiness patriarch kirill, told him about the dangers, e, fraught with the possible decision of constantinople a, as it was already clear. where everything, as they say, is heading. he listened to me very carefully and said to me such words that i will probably remember all my life, who knows antony maybe you are right, all these arguments that you set out, maybe they are all true. but you must understand that we greeks grow up with childhood perception that the patriarch of constantinople is a symbol of our yilinism. and no matter how much he was wrong. we cannot attach our element. i said your suggestion. i'm a young man, probably still, maybe i don't understand something. tell me, please, what is more important or laziness. or loyalty to the truth, loyalty to the canons and loyalty to the hierarchal oath. he remained silent in response to this question. this is about the question of

the conjuncture, which may be political and may be associated with some national aspects, alas, this is what there have been mentioned about our friends, but there are many. uh, let's say churches, traditionally included in the orbit, the influence of the phanar. yes , many of them understand everything, in fact, even some bishops, and who belongs to those who traditionally support the phanar. they also say on the sidelines that we do not agree there. we are against. well, we can’t help giving an ecumenical patriarch who, in this situation, made such a decision, and once i remember in one dispute even one bishop, when we discussed what was happening with him. he tried to give some analogies, comparing the recognition of the ukrainian schism to the patriarchs in the follow with how it was settled, which lasted for several decades, our separation from the russian zarube. from above it, he was trying to let me know that it's the same thing. naturally, i objected to him, and he said in response. yes, you know , if the patriarch of constantinople says that

this chair is the canonical bishop of the orthodox church. so, this is the way it is , what you can talk about, with what people the orthodox church and its hierarchs are accused of defending imperial views russia here. uh, i recently had an interview with vladyka. saven says i'm not even hiding it. e, my commitments, and with an imperial look , i see nothing wrong with this. and if we are criticized, for this we can criticize in response for them or not. i think that every uh priest, hierarch, layman has his own civic position. can e perceive it, as it seems to him, necessary and necessary, and hmm, everyone has some kind of political views. but as far as the position of the church is concerned, what is it? maybe difficult. uh, blame our church. so it's in some kind of imperial ambitions, because our church is multinational, our church unites a huge number of people belonging to different cultures to different civilizations,

speaking different languages. every time we meet. from old memory i remember my ministry abroad and the last years, when i was directly involved in the life of our e, foreign parish parties, but you can always see in them, e, the enormous diversity of church life. uh, a huge variety of those people who come to the temple, uh, who continue this the idea of ​​adhering to different political views, which is especially evident now in the context of the conflict in ukraine, i must say that this is strikingly different from the patriarchate of constantinople, which now accuses us of these imperial ambitions, because you will come to any constantinople parish abroad in italy in america first thing. you will see the greek flag there, everyone speaks greek there , and i know. on the example of, uh, some of my acquaintances, priests who, not being ethnic greeks, serve in parishes patriarchate of constantinople. they never become their own there, they are always there,

well, as if they understand that there are greeks. and they are our church. uh, she's completely deprived. and this kind of relationship with both the parishioners and the clergy. we have priests and italians and french and americans and parishioners, respectively, as i said above. here. see that our church is tolerant. and to all independence from cso relations? ah, to all the parishioners or to the priests too, because i wanted to ask you about the fate of the priest, who changed the text of the prayer for peace on his own. yes, because of this, he was removed from the ministry, not deprived himself, as far as i understand in the service. just recently, constantinople took over its jurisdiction. how to deal with this, that on the one hand you say that the russian orthodox church is open. well, let's say for everyone, including people from

the donbass, people from western ukraine. central but at the same time, john koval was suspended from serving for changes in prayer. how does this affect the image of the russian orthodox church abroad, firstly, with regard to the father and a number of other priests, uh, which were recently decided by the patriarch, bartholomew. this is how the stroke of the emperor is taken into his jurisdiction. i'm talking about priests from lithuania from belarus, uh, just recently. they. actually. they were the first whom the patriarchs of america uh included their jurisdiction, then uh those decisions that the hierarchs made were taken off relations. they were accepted because these did quite well. specific disciplinary violations are canonical violations that are subject to economic law. if every priest arbitrarily changes the words of prayers, then

, of course, this will not end in anything good. well , essentially. today we see how constantinople is building some completely new model of church life, a new cleology, and in particular. e, believes that he is not only, as it were, the first among equals, which he is revered by e orthodox churches. eh, we give him, as it were, a special role , a special place in the family of local orthodox churches and endowing him with a consensus role. he now considers himself. uh, well, as if by some kind of e analogue of the pope, who , as is known in the catholic church, e has , as it were, a slightly different status, a different role, which is enshrined in the corresponding savings of the catholic church, believes that here he is in particular. maybe, that's how to take and accept, and in violation of the canons, i must of course. there say accept e any priest from any other local church. e to its jurisdiction, referring to the so -called right of appeal. we, the patriarch , didn’t even sit down with the need to get acquainted with the parla

these materials. he just got a statement from these priests. they asked him to accept them, citing the fact that they were being persecuted for political reasons and that he would do so with a stroke of the pen. uh, he did it, well, actually , after what he did in ukraine, uh, endowing him with a sacred garden. er, never ordained persons and, er, from them formed the so-called orthodox church. ukraine, of course, it is already difficult to surprise us with something, but still conscience cannot put up, of course, with the fact that today, uh, they are doing constantinople patriarch, destroying the unity, let's orthodoxy from high matter, and external church relations. they are very complex. eh, let's get back to earthly affairs. you have lived in italy for many years, now you have recently had connections there, what do ordinary italians say about the conflicts between russia and ukraine what

do they say about this war when i see my friends, whom i have left in italy many more from the time of my ministry there. of course, they ask about how things are, many understand that this is the flow of information that falls on them and means mass media. it is clearly painted in only one color. and the world cannot be black or white asks, how do i understand this for myself, asks about what, what can be done so that peace comes sooner? of course, as a clergyman, i first of all talk about what the church is doing today in order to help everyone who suffers from this conflict. they say that of course. and for the western world, which has taken a completely understandable position in this conflict, nothing good comes from this simple townsfolk. the same simple italians, of course

, note. how much has changed in their lives in economic terms, because the cost of utilities has risen enormously , what used to seem so simple and affordable water, heat, light. today it has acquired a completely different price. the country's economy is suffering, but if we are talking about italy, it is obvious that the suffering from what is happening they are shared, including by society in the west, although they try not to notice it and not talk about it. and there is no feeling that many in europe a are already tired of news about this conflict, and some are not even interested in this at all. that's what i was told recently. how is it in some restaurant in venice, a russian person paid with a card of a kazakhstani bank and a waitress girl. and why would she be from poland uh hmm surprised? the one that russian cards do not

work, that is, for her. it was kind of a revelation. and in general, there is, uh, a certain feeling that, and already defined there, let's say , the means of people who are not interested in the political agenda. and that is the news. its already quite tired, isn't it, i think that in many respects you are right, and i can just say speaking about our, for example, parishes abroad. you and i once talked already at one of our meetings that at first our church publications, our priests, our believers , became the subject of venting some emotions from outside. uh, the locals, and the temples were painted by the priest. and they wrote me some letters with threats. now it's all gone. it seems that really, as if the intensity of e, emotions, he already slept. eh, i can say, personally about myself, that coming abroad. on behalf of

his holiness the patriarch, i often travel abroad. i have never noticed any discrimination of any views towards myself. uh, on the contrary, it seems to me that well, everyone would like that someday everything would be normal , that flights between countries would be resumed , that normal economic relations would be resumed, and human relations, it seems to me, they are preserved, and such ties, including between churches, and between believers they contribute a lot to this, but in the end everyone is still worried about this issue, especially after zelensky’s meeting with patriarch bartholomew, and in a number of media there was information that the meetings were quite substantive at it, and the transfer of the kiev-pechersk lavra was discussed, all the events, and around it and inside the monastery they are directly related to these negotiations, whether this is true or not, whether the lavra will be transferred or not, it is difficult to answer this question. uh, well, in the context of what

we see today, such an e, i will not be afraid of this word of the predatory policy of constantinople who is everywhere now where he is given at least some opportunity to try. to intervene to accept priests to seize church property to create some problems for the russian church , where such opportunities appear for him , he is doing it now, one of the new such vectors for applying their efforts is the baltic states, this is lithuania, e. this is estonia, where the patriarchate of constantinople has long established a parallel jurisdiction and brought a split, and in the lives of the orthodox believers of this country. i do not rule out that in the context ukraine, the patriarch of constantinople has a claim, including property in this country. it is difficult to say what

patriarch vathalomew will go to in the hope of realizing his ambitions, and it is difficult to say what the ukrainian government will go to in hope. deal another blow to the canonical church and deprive it. uh, her temples, her shrines, including such a shrine. we will see how events develop, but, unfortunately, taking into account what is happening today. i cannot rule out that such a transfer and some other development of events, a negative development will not occur, we will still hope for a positive scenario. thank you very much vladyka anthony a for finding the time and coming to our studio. thank you for the invitation ekaterina thank you

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