[000:00:00;00] ruben vardanyan was detained, i have known ruben vardanyan for many years, ruben is a man of destiny, about whom novels will later be written, talented, very capable, who in the nineties created a financial empire, troika dialogue, very rich, at some point in time, who in russia, really a billionaire. he felt that his homeland needed him, he refuses a russian passport, justifies that he wants to be completely with his people, his country, leaves everything, takes his son from england, who was studying, goes first to armenia, then to karabakh, where he works

as a minister and goes through the tragedy of his people. today he is arrested by the azerbaijani authorities, before his eyes the exodus of the armenians of nagorno-karabakh is taking place, these are terrible images, more than 50,000 people have already left the land on which the armenians lived since the entire century bc. this is a terrible outcome that is happening before our eyes. here is a video of an endless line of cars. there is a terrible explosion at the gas station, many dead, many seriously injured, our peacekeepers, our doctors are doing everything possible to save these people, our aviation operates in air ambulance mode, helicopters, guys, peacekeepers give everything they have, they are trying to do everything that

depends on them to alleviate the terrible situation. the armenians of nagorno-karabakh, ruben remained with his people, the most bitter and terrible, his godini, at that moment a completely different person in armenia, who had never been very rich. who, through the will of fate across the street, became the prime minister of armenia and who did nothing to save nagorno-karabakh and the armenians of nagorno-karabakh, he did everything to there was no one in armenia who did nothing to simply implement the agreements that were made after the tragic forty-four-day

war for armenia. who in prague said that there is no karabakh, who said a few days ago: we will not allow armenia to be drawn into hostilities, this person today is not dealing with the problem of nagorno-karabakh, not with the tragedy, the exodus, ruben mardanyan is thinking about the people about his homeland, but pashinyan thinks about how to stay in power, now there’s advertising, after that we’ll talk in our studio with the honorary chairman of the president of the council for foreign defense policy sergei aleksandrovich karaganov. i would really like our family

to adjust. in life, felt-tip pens, calendars for the ninety-fourth year, which is just around the corner, worked for space in past lives, a colleague, quit a long time ago, what does your dad work for, a turtle and a ninja, also saves the world, also lives in the sewer, like rude, youthful talents, evgeniy tsyganov, the whole system needs a major overhaul, the whole country needs a major overhaul, where is the money? alexandrok, i’ll be in an hour. how can i open my own business? maxim lagashin, capitalism is the system of the future , oil has fallen again, a film by alexander veledinsky, nothing depends on us at all, it depends, must depend, ninety-three, but then

you will tell it, this is history. as the world slides into anarchy and becomes increasingly less predictable, the usual methods of solving problems no longer work. the usa, intoxicated by its unique position after the collapse of the ussr, has finally discredited itself in the eyes of the global majority, and are now burying the international institutions created after the victory over nazi germany with them. russia has been challenged. existential scale, which requires a revision of many principles of foreign policy and internal mobilization of society. today we have the opportunity to discuss the most significant aspects

of the transformation of the world order with sergei aleksandrovich karaganov, doctor of political sciences, accountable chairman of the presidential council on foreign defense policy. sergey alexandrovich, you have become a rebel calmness. you wrote, in my opinion, a brilliant article, not just one, but several. i do not hide the fact that i am your absolute like-minded person on these issues, and here on this podium, many times, i have de facto quoted your article and your train of thought. at the same time, of course, in soviet times we lived in a basic understanding, the main thing is that there is no war and do the russians want war, and under no circumstances should you touch nuclear weapons with your hands, and now many participants in our discussions, the very mention of nuclear weapons and opportunity its use causes, i would say, such panic horror. on the contrary, you say quite harshly that troubles come from this horror. in your opinion, what is the correct

attitude towards nuclear weapons and the possibility of using them? well, some of the people who say that our people will never, under any circumstances, be, of course, those of our fellow citizens who have not yet... fled abroad and want the defeat of the fatherland, but there is another huge number of people who are simply this the problem is guarding, i understand them, it is not necessary, it is very difficult, to think about unthinkable, but in such cases i always say that pacifists, including nuclear pacifists, live wonderfully, chew, sit on the internet, in cafes, chat, only because for... for them wars die to one degree or another, well, now specifically, this is the first, second, we really need to talk about this directly, i ’ve already talked about it a little on the sidelines, and now i’ve already started talking

directly, we calmed down in the past decades, deciding that, in principle, a nuclear war in general is a big one impossible, such between us, or a strategic mistake, surely or recklessly, by raising the threshold for the use of nuclear weapons, which now looks like it will never be used under almost any circumstances, our opponents are shamelessly using it, who are now talking about this, this is their doctrine, they will never use it, this is how we involuntarily, they wrote a ticket for... them for non-nuclear aggression, and this is completely wrong , why this happened, and it can be discussed, uh, but it is quite obvious that, among other things, in addition to the fact that our nuclear

doctrine is unreasonable, extremely costly, because it opens the race, and the way for a race of non-nuclear weapons, which for the most part are more expensive in terms of quality for society, for the people and for the world, and we are also playing into the hands of the enemy, who wants to mentally, virtually write off russia’s nuclear potential, since it didn’t work out physically and they decided to do it. well, besides everything else , we are committing a mortal sin before those millions of our people who were starving in the factories for the discovery of uranium so that there in the forties, fifties, sixties create a nuclear shield for the homeland, but a nuclear shield without a sword does not work, now we need to change the nuclear doctrine, go, and i hope that , of course, it will be late, but still we will be able to,

by changing the doctrine, and also by taking a number of steps, up the stairs, deterrence, intimidation and sobering up of our opponents, we can prevent the use of nuclear weapons, but there is an even more significant problem, this is not only the current war, which can, if continued for a long time... go to the nuclear level, peace, there is an earthquake in the world , will arise in 5-10 years 15, a huge number of conflicts, if we do not return the cutting-off role of nuclear weapons to the world system, and the world elites have forgotten about this role, which forced everyone to behave decently, relatively decently, for 70 years, and the world to the third world war on the horizon

for the next decade, so i think that , unfortunately, we need to make up for it by changing both our doctrine and many of our approaches. your article says that you were surprised when leading american politicians do not see any fear of nuclear weapons at all, they believe that global warming is a much more terrible disaster for the world than nuclear weapons, here, of course, there is a role and... after we saw that, de facto, neither chernobyl nor fokushima became disasters that paralyze the will, then a feeling arose, well, nuclear weapons are just one of the types that can be used , your article very precisely says that if the use of tactical nuclear weapons is very locally very limited, then on the contrary, this can open the door to the use of nuclear weapons, that is here i am right away... what

if you are going to do it, then do something that paralyzes the will, and if you can’t do it, then don’t start. i hope that we will not have to start, i really pray to god that we will not have to do this, but i also know for sure that if society and the leadership of the party are not ready for this step, we are doomed to many years of wars, and then peace doomed to world war three, so i believe that maybe, again, as in many historical periods, russia has been entrusted with a historical mission, to save humanity, as we did in napoleonic times, as we did in the war against hitler and him, all of europe. how will we save? after all, it is very important here that the use of nuclear weapons, say, on the territory of ukraine.

for europe nothing, the use of nuclear weapons on the territory of europe, for america, as was said through the mouth of one of the ministers, is not an existential threat, everything depends, of course, first of all on the crazy people in the white house, you know, firstly, well , - to my mind, only americans spoke about the use of nuclear weapons in ukraine, provoking us, perhaps, to actually use it, which would be the height of irresponsibility, stupidity and pervertedness. this cannot be discussed, as for the threat of non-use of nuclear weapons, i think we have been thinking about this for a long time, thinking, talking, i think myself, i remember the works i read there on the history of nuclear

strategy, i believe that yes , unfortunately, in order to shake things up, it is necessary, to apply, to threaten the use of groups of group nuclear strikes on a number of countries - europe, there is argument that the americans will write off the europeans too, well then, again , i don’t want to scare anyone, but i already published this in the article, so i can repeat it now, well then, firstly, there are still such simple things as striking american bases, there are tens of thousands of american troops there, nuclear strikes, because they are americans. they have already promised us, with them there are their small, uh, comrades-in-arms , like france, and great britain is saying that if we allegedly use nuclear weapons, i repeat, i hope that this will not happen,

and i pray to god that this doesn’t happen, so they will strike en masse, uh, there with missiles, with conventional ammunition, well then , accordingly, we... there will be a second wave from my point of view, they should know that there will be a second wave in europe , and maybe the third on american bases, now we really are dealing with the alarmingly fast, uh, deteriorating quality of the american elite, there is simply nothing in europe anymore, but the point is that, given the coming, and the coming trend, it can be quickly, of course, discuss in 3, 4, 5, 8 years, biden and his secretary of state say that warming is worse than nuclear war, but what really bothers me, despite the fact that i am naturally concerned

about climate change, like any earthling, but there is also an element, of course, of deceit, peace to ourselves and to his allies the idea that russia will never strike with nuclear weapons, because this is the idea of ​​precisely devaluing the russian nuclear potential, and the statement of our president that we can use, he says, this is much softer than i, he is everything -still the leader of the country, but nevertheless, he speaks very definitely about this, they are either discredited, or hushed up, or even... ridiculed at them, therefore, but it is very likely that these people have really reached such a level of idiocy that they already believe that the catastrophe of a general nuclear war is better than than warming, which

will and won’t happen there and how, but to which humanity will obviously be able to adapt to a big nuclear war that will destroy... hundreds of millions of lives will probably make life on earth generally unsuitable or little suitable for existence, this is a completely different quality, a threat, we just need now, including, i do this with my humble work, to return people’s understanding of what we are dealing with, what specific steps should be taken so that the west understands that we are not joking, that our window of opportunity is not so large, as long as we have an advantage in strategic nuclear forces, due to the fact that we have hypersound, but they don’t yet, you know, so this one, firstly, this will of course go away over time, this is an advantage important, but not that

important, what’s more important is that there are still 3-4 years left waging this war, why else would we want to kill tens of thousands of our... best men, they fight, and they fight correctly, and maybe they show the will to fight for victory, and i do not rule out that there is such a small calculation in the end , that the west will falter, realizing that it will not win this war before that, but we need to change the doctrine in parallel, it’s there, i don’t think we should discuss it now on the television screen, what specific changes there are. in nuclear doctrine, but it is quite obvious that there is a response to any use of non-nuclear weapons on the territory of russia, massive, well, not accidental, but a nuclear strike could be delivered to nato countries, respectively, it is necessary to define , by the way, already in our state doctrine,

such a simple thing that nato is an alliance of bandits, aggressors who committed several aggressions with punishment and who... this bandit group wanted to expand the zone of their control, which we are opposing , we are not fighting in ukraine, not against ukrainians, we are fighting against this bandit group, it must be said that nato is the enemy, and so that they know this clearly, and that a country that joins nato automatically becomes an enemy and a first-class, first-class target for... a strike, we did not say this until recently, it was wrong, that's what there is, there is also the so-called escalation ladder, there it is in theory, it exists.

the deployment of missiles with nuclear warheads in belarus, these are some other measures of a military-technical nature, as far as i know, the visit of the leader and minister of defense shoigu was very interesting. new land, where in general nuclear weapons tests most often took place, this is all a step in this direction, but the test is necessary so that they have if one of the steps is, of course, nuclear weapons tests , and besides, i’m afraid that in the air, first this can be done naturally underground, while we must also understand that we so habitually cling to the dogmas of the old times, by the way, our nuclear... was made in those days when we followed mainly

the theory made in the west , many of they were useful, for example, that it was impossible to have a limited nuclear war , i myself, in the years of my combat youth, promoted this theory in every possible way, because i said that because it was necessary in order to prevent a war in general, it turned out that that now this this prevention is not happening, is not working, we need to do. about ten or two steps, i don’t think we should discuss them on television, but in principle they are really being developed there, but they, i hope that they are being developed, it’s none of my business, well, so to speak, i personally and my colleagues i think about this, well, if someone , someone is interested in this in our respective circles there, they may know about it, but i hope that professional, military people are doing this, and in any case they need to clear the way, because our ... and the military doctrine that i said is secured, if not, prohibitively, yes, if not recklessly, it

prohibits our military from working seriously on the escalation ladder, it should be noted that you write very interestingly about the role of yours, oh social role of svo, you are saying that the campaign to the west is over, although i immediately, of course, have an association with the great works of chinese literature, and the campaign to... the west, but we are already turning to the east, and that a new elite is now being formed, and that the idea of ​​many is that that a long war is beneficial for us, but not for the west, still has its time limitations, and you just mentioned that the death of the flower of our nation is now in the fields of the north, where men are fulfilling their duty, must always be taken into account, because it is from them new elites of the country are being built. this is the first time we are going through this transformation. without using the method of repression. this has never happened in our history. how do you see this

path to where we can come? i think that there are two more years, it is necessary, including using your methods, including, i think, tougher state methods, including, finally, the proclamation of a state cultural program or the russian idea, a state one. but in the normal sense of the word, to say who we are and what we want in this world, this is quite easy to do, our political bureaucracy is still afraid of this, and releases there are all sorts of documents that, in which the word kpi is missing, regarding, that is, our political ideological work, i sometimes see them, that there by chance it dawns on me, i... i really

laugh a little bitterly at this, this needs to be done too, but the main thing is just to tell society directly that my friends, the world is falling apart, that inevitably, if we do not act decisively directly, the third world war is inevitable, and that our task is to save our fatherland, save the world, as we have already saved the world from ...cutting away the foundations of western domination, which for 500 years were based on its military superiority, russia needs a new idea , this is on a large level, on a small level, we must do everything ourselves, each in our own, in our own niche, but of course, we are all waiting for what our the leadership, our leader, will say decisive words, although in principle he says many words, but they are not

yet formulated strictly enough, in addition, completely... it is obvious that we are still hesitating whether we will scare society by telling them the truth , i think he needs to start telling the truth that we are in situation of a global earthquake, that we have been given an existential challenge, to which we responded a little belatedly, and that if we do not act directly and harshly, then we can suffer seriously, and then get a world war. all general destruction, that

is, not only humiliation, but also defeat. society, you think, will be able to perceive the truth, but what to do with that part of society, which for decades de facto represented a certain class of serving comprodor bourgeoisie, which conveniently settled in the corners, and now the nekhati are losing ground, we need to oust it accordingly , with systematic work, fortunately this helps us a lot, i just applaud our western colleagues and i suspect that those people or the person who thought about this operation, caused fire, caused or caused fire on themselves specifically, so that without

reprisals, which we do not want, real mass ones. to cleanse the comprodors in our country, which we created, whom we created with our stupid reforms of the nineties, without understanding that we were there, what we did, and accordingly the comprador style of thinking, these people exist , i can even understand them to some extent, they are accustomed to this life, but they must understand that either they must leave, or they must... join the ranks of active patriots , that is, they need to change, they need to change, or leave, has the class of managers, officials , entrepreneurs changed, do you see these sprouts of a new patriotic class, everywhere, of course, everywhere, uh, by the way, we have a top government, in my opinion very high quality for the first time in the history of existence, to