once again the traditional annual meeting of the valdai discussion club takes place. the most pressing international issues are discussed by experts from more than 40 countries. and now my colleague, anastasia efimova, has come into direct contact, we know the details from her. anastasia, greetings and i give you the floor. yes, yuri, hello, you can hardly expect details only from me. let me introduce you to my guest, timofey bordachov, professor at the higher school of economics. first of all, of course, we will talk to you today. about economics, of course program director of the international discussion club valdai, economic day, second, today is the work of the discussion club here in sochi. of course, talking about the economy without politics, as it turned out, is categorically impossible over the past year and a half; the morning session was devoted precisely to the state of the global economy, precisely the possibility of abandoning the monetary dictates of the united states, first of all, and the possibility of moving away from the actual sanctions that are being used as a key instrument of pressure today, probably. from your point

point of view, these are still our idealistic desires, dreams of bringing a brave new world closer, or is this really reality, and at least the refusal of the dollar and the transition to payments in national currencies can become the very tool that can be a little sobering for those who are trying today impose the rules of the game. well, firstly, this is not a fantasy or a desire , this is the reality of the world economy, within which it has been living for the last 18 months, we see that even when the west began an economic war against russia, our foreign economic relations did not collapse, on the contrary, they expanded, russia not only continued to trade with many countries, most countries of the world, but also expanded the scale and volume of this trade, and there is a transition to mutual payments in national currencies, although the dollar, euro, of course, remain in circulation, no one seeks to remove them from there, so the world very quickly stood up, stood on its feet, that is, the world very easily... to the changes that occurred

after the start of the special military operation, although of course, many in the west said that it will be a disaster and that it will be terrible, it will lead to losses in the russian economy, it will lead to many in russia, in russia, yes, well, what should we do if we are used to talking about this always, but this did not happen, our current economic day, it is already dedicated to analyzing how we lived these year and a half, even more. and what mechanisms of the world economy have shown that it is largely self-regulating, that the state itself decides with whom to trade, what currencies to use, are striving to diversify their foreign economic relations, that is, the practice of the last 18 months has turned out to be much more optimistic than our colleagues in the west promised us. much more optimistic, as many of your colleagues believe, was the report that you, including you... prepared the traditional and valdai

report this year, because when reading the news feed, there is a feeling of an exclusively negative background, the conclusions to which experts come, they are generally much more pragmatic and even in some ways optimistic, in your opinion, we are in a phase of acute crisis now, if we are talking about relations with the west, including, we will continue to climb somewhere at the foot of this mountain, or maybe there are some. ..potential options for positive change? well, firstly, we have to admit that with the outbreak of an acute conflict between russia and the west in february 2022, the vast majority of your colleagues in europe and the united states left journalism and moved into the genre of military propaganda. and therefore we should perceive all talk about upcoming horrors, catastrophes, chaos precisely as military propaganda designed to convince you and me that we should quarrel with the west. it’s impossible, otherwise there will be a disaster.

over the past 18 months, we have become convinced that no catastrophe has occurred either for the world economy or for the russian economy. our task is not to convince anyone of something; we have been trying for 20 years to explain something to the west, to convince them of something. our task now is to move on with our lives and develop external economic ties russia aimed at strengthening russia itself, internally. and that's the attitude. we see how well our trade, economic and technological cooperation with non-western countries works, everyone pursues their own interests, of course, but in the case of non-western countries, we do not have acute political contradictions, on their part there is a willingness to develop any relations with us, which regarding relations with the west itself, we are now in a deep military-political crisis, we must admit this, and the duration

this crisis is not... it can be very, very long , there is no need to think about something ending very quickly, you talked about military propaganda, including that which is now being conducted by the west, international discussion... lobday , for many years, at a variety of venues, here in sochi, including, and communicated with western experts, with western journalists, they took part in plenary sessions, they asked questions to the president, traditionally received very detailed, very detailed, detailed answers , but apparently we weren’t heard, we were not effective enough, or there was simply no desire to listen initially, but i think there was no desire to listen and there was no opportunity. the way western countries have developed over the past 15 years, starting with the crisis of 2008, has led to the fact that they have become more and more isolated in themselves and thought only about their problems, about their own affairs, becoming more and more selfish in a world that in principle,

as we see, it is open, therefore, at the meetings of the valdai club, starting from 2013, 2014, it is increasingly present participants, experts from... western countries, their number was constantly expanding, so for us in 2022 there was a natural filling of the intellectual space with those who are ready for a serious conversation. thank you very much, i will remind you that our guest was timofey bordachev, program director of the valdai international discussion club, professor at the higher school of economics. yes, anastasia, thank you and your interlocutor, i will remind you that anastasia efimova monitors the work of the valdai discussion club. go hiking. in the new application sportsmaster you will find a travel club with new routes. choose tours all over russia, mountain, forest, river, get thousands of bonuses for your trip. update sportmaster, open new routes. if

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ecology and responsible management. this the year may become the hottest in the history of observations, bloomberg believes , waves of abnormal heat covered the continents in turn, temperature records were updated in iran, thailand, turkey. against this background , un estimates that a quarter of the world's population do not have access to drinking water sound especially alarming. . russia contains a fifth of the world's reserves of pressed water. will our country be able to provide it to the entire planet ? is water really the new oil? we discuss the topic with our guests. in the studio today , the director of the water development center complex of the ministry of natural resources of russia ilya razbash, ecology and climate control company rusal, ivan rebrik. the volga, one of the largest rivers on earth and the largest

in flow, basin area and length in europe, has turned green. in saratov this year it became overgrown with algae much earlier than usual. residents of the city sounded the alarm. turn green in july, by august the entire expanse of the river in saratov seemed to have an acidic color, algae bloomed, then the unpleasant smell of hydrogen sulfide appeared, the plants began to rot, the picture was completed household garbage in the water, dead fish and unknown noises in the area of ​​the new beach, swimming was banned there, e. coli was found , only the level of bloom increases every year, that is, blue-green algae, brown algae, the smell of constantly decomposing remains, that is, the fish are dying out because oxygen becomes scarce. environmentalists explain that this year, due to the heat, the algae bloomed earlier than usual and more strongly. the main reason is runoff from storm sewers, experts say. the volga and op are the rivers that suffer the most from pollution in russia, according to roshydromet , they account for 60% of such cases.

the main sources of water pollution are industrial enterprises, primarily the mining industry, the housing and communal services sector and agriculture. why is the volga becoming greener every year and who is the main source of pollution? yulia, ecologists - they explained everything quite competently in the story in the eyeliner, this is really so, and these are key problems not only for russia, for the entire planet, high temperatures, abnormal high temperatures, over a long period, blooming of reservoirs, and shallowing, blooming of shallowing, and of course pollution, everything that happens on this river is a process in which, forgive me, please, we are to blame, man, that the most, the most important polluter. which, well, forms the muck that gets in, but how, that is, we come, throw

a bottle there from this, no, no, discharges, untreated discharges, in a direct flow, we have a house on the shore or not far away, we installed a pipe, disguised it, and dumped it into the river, no one here it doesn’t regulate, no one supervises us, no one controls us, do people really do that, they themselves swim here, i ’m telling you, there are a lot of such cases, household wastewater is called gray pipes, which are not regulated. what is the difference between large industrialists, because they are visible, they are regulated, they pay for the negative impact, they pay for emissions , they clean, they clean, they pay for emissions, it is reasonable here, there will probably be further development of the federal clean water project, up to the requirements to a specific pipe, to to a specific owner, in any case, if we talk about industry, then it is absolutely obvious that there should probably be some kind of prototype of the same quotas as for emissions into the atmosphere, for normatively

permissible discharges, i’m talking about all this about reduction quotas, well, it’s realistic, after all, but let’s say serious metallurgical companies also love it, and they also like to place production in river beds, and somewhere closer to the river, and accordingly, what technologies do you use to minimize this impact, starts with simple, it starts with understanding the material water balance, how much we take, where we get it from, why, where, how much we lose , how much can be transferred to a closed water cycle, that’s putting things in order in your own household, it gives these effects, let’s say in vachensk they reduced it, and by switching the cooling the factory's closed water circulation system reduced discharges into the chulyn river by 30%, which means they did the same in krasnoturinsk, at the bogoslovsky aluminum plant, but this is expensive, something like this is very expensive. that is, the business is now ready

is ready to invest and invests and invests, this is their task - to be responsible for the territory where their enterprises are present, an enterprise today can compete if it is truly environmentally responsible, if a policy has been introduced, if technologies are used, i suggest you look at wastewater treatment plants and that , how the volga is cleaned, a separate federal... project is dedicated to the cleansing of the volga as the main water artery of the country, in the twenty-fourth year the volume of polluted waste into it should decrease by more than 2 km per year, that is, three times compared to 2017. we are preparing a large federal project to improve the health of water bodies, where we want to apply an approach that is systemic for the entire russian federation, to divide settlements by type in terms of methods purification from the point of view of technological solutions, relying on the best available technologies, to come to a certain standard, purification facilities for small towns cannot cost more

than for cities with a population of over a million, but today , unfortunately, such a picture exists. majority treatment facilities in russia were built more than half a century ago, since 2019, thanks to the federal clean water project , 824 drinking water supply facilities have been put into operation, old ones have been repaired or new ones have been built ; business is also involved in the process of modernizing the system. helps. project to modernize and update the drinking water supply system in the city, how do we do it? we financed the construction of a new plant for the production of high-tech. environmentally friendly and safe and more durable pipes for implementation of tasks for the construction of water supply systems, in addition to the fact that we, of course , solve the problem of vologda in this way; in the future, the use of these pipes can be expanded and used in other regions. thanks to the joint efforts of business, the authorities managed to provide

quality drinking water to almost 88% of the country's residents. this is how modern cleanrooms operate today. systems. source water, river, is initially treated with all necessary reagents, these are kaguland, filculant, and primary disinfection electrolytic sodium hypochlorite. here there are clarifiers equipped with thin-layer modules in which primary water purification occurs, that is, large contaminants are coagulated, the already clarified water settles to the bottom, and then filtration enters the final stage of purification. you also have purification , this is what you were talking about, well, it is additionally purified by specifics, that is , quite toxic pollutants that end up in wastewater, so we install additional ion exchange stages there, and additional purification, for example, from secondary compounds, and what’s more, we recycle our discharges into internal circulation, this

is the ideology of building closed-loop rational water use systems, of course, which is extremely important. tell me, you travel a lot along the volga and russian rivers in general, what do you did you see? in general, i want to say that a different culture of attitude towards water resources and nature in general is being formed in society, and i see this personally, within the framework of the national ecology project, the water of russia team is working, we are in all in the corners of russia we have been holding cleanup days for many years, and i want to say that i see more and more people joining our project, more young people and... it is clear that there is a tendency towards a completely different view of nature, now it is not fashionable to litter, now it is fashionable to be careful relate to nature. to date, 100,000 people have participated in the water of russia campaign, we removed approximately 13,500 kamaz trucks of garbage from the banks of water bodies throughout the country, these are all 89 subjects,

about half a thousand of us in our new territories people also took part, which was cleaned up about 65 km, we have an ecology project that is doing this work quite actively, and the volga is being cleaned and other objects are being cleaned, and baikal is being cleaned, now the government has decided to expand this program because it has proven its effectiveness, this is the trend, what we must come to, collect less, what does this mean, means less littering, russian aluminum since the eleventh year, it must be said that the dynamics of waste collection, yes indeed noted, it has a tendency. to reduce, let's say, last saturday we held a day of the yenisei river, a day of the chulym river , in the city of achinsk, more than 13,000 people came out, in general in russian cities, but in achinsk, for example, we collected 260 bags of garbage, of which 170 with a little, they immediately sorted this garbage according to the principle of metal, plastic, glass

, that is, people, people come with their families, people come not only... enterprise workers, townspeople come and clean up their rivers. russian companies regularly carry out their environmental campaigns. so sberbank, together with the fund without rivers, as if without hands, every year pays tribute to the volga on volga day; this spring alone, 30,000 people removed a ton of garbage from the banks of the waterway, and also took samples for research and released more than a thousand fry into the river. of course, maintaining the cleanliness of our reservoirs is the responsibility not only of the state, but also of the local society; it is imperative to influence people’s worldview, to cultivate the right attitude towards nature, as a creative person and a representative of show business, i think in metaphors and will act with works of art, we are releasing the film spirit of baikal, everyone will be able to feel this cold breath

of baikal, admire the majestic nature, of course, we are raising such an important topic there... and the relationship between man and nature, at the same time, with in the spirit of baikal, we helped in the republic of buryatia to remove almost 10 km of the coastline together with our colleagues from moskvarium from garbage, well, actually, this is such creativity on the one hand, and work on the other hand. one more problem our water resources are shallowing, and this is often not only the fault of humans. tura river in the sverdlovsk and tyumen regions. this season her level has dropped to a critical level. may was hot in the region. first, natural fires raged, then abnormally high temperatures. this situation began to develop back in the nineteenth and twentieth years. yes, that is, when a soil moisture deficit began to form, the tura collects its water in the middle urals, then

it flows through the sverlovsk region and collects water from 80,000 km, these are the conditions of dry soil and lack of snow precipitation, because snow is the main source of water for our rivers. the enesei also became shallow this season; after a winter with little snow, spring came without rain, the total influx of water was 50-70% below normal. for natural reasons, rivers are becoming thinner, primarily due to climate change, primarily due to a decrease in the total amount of precipitation, which is observed in many regions of the globe, the don river has become shallower, over the past 30 years, its water content, well, that is, the annual flow rate has decreased by 30 percent, this is a lot, the reason is that the don basically flows almost entirely through the steppe and forest-steppe zones, and there the amount of precipitation decreases, these vagaries of the weather, and which

are caused by global climate changes, they of course affect the flow, shipping on irt6 has decreased, barges were loaded to a minimum so as not to run aground, the load capacity of a 300-ton barge is 2,830, today i can only load it... t 800 tons, i accordingly do not receive additional. we have already seen that drying out of the reg affects transport communication in cargo transportation. what other areas of the economy are affected by this? melioration, that’s what is suffering: water shortage, especially in the southern regions, is a big problem for us, because agriculture consumes 70% of all water, all water sources . and this food security is being jeopardized. this is where you need to think. there is a large program that has been signed. ae by the chairman of the government and about 100 billion has been allocated. to date, a lot of work has begun, including on e

the completion of the construction of the bogaevsky hydroelectric complex, which will raise the level of the don so that, in general, navigation will be without problems, but at the same time, rashid correctly noted that agriculture is indeed one of the largest consumers, and speaking of consumers, we immediately say about rational consumption, unfortunately, there are losses during transportation. water from a place, from a source to a consumer, sometimes reaches, in networks, and in reclamation canals that were built there many years ago. ivan, here is rusal, very a large amount of energy, almost all the energy for aluminum production is obtained from hydroelectric power stations, rivers are drying up, becoming shallow, are there any risks for the company, this is a very sensitive topic, and there are certainly risks, since, as you correctly noted, more than 99% . but last year we received 99.03% of the energy used for the production of aluminum alumina from a hydroelectric station, and since there is

really a reduction in energy, that is, this is a very sensitive topic, a prudent attitude towards water resources is one of the main tasks, including for us, as co-owners of hydropower facilities there together with roshydro, but here it goes through... regulation of wastewater, that is, this is a separate system for monitoring hydraulic capacity, and the state is involved in this, of course, and as for business, then there is compliance with regimes, water regimes, the absence of peak water consumption, that is, everything must be agreed upon, of course, and well, just as we have already said, these are the activities, cleaning the coastlines there in sanitary protection zones, must be maintained, i remind you that in our country there are more than 2.5 million rivers, the same number of lakes, this whole system, it is really

very sensitive, today there are a huge number of projects to clear river beds, which, unfortunately, have silted up and we really need to help our rivers convey from this, as you know, an organism like this, that is, from capillaries, and yes, that is. in the other direction, and big rivers are signed, in this sense, of course, we won’t make more water with you, like people, but we can reduce thoughtless consumption, russians can calculate their water footprint, an online test to analyze the costs of this resource was launched in the official group rosvod resursov, on the social network vk. if you answer 20 questions about your household habits, you can find out how sparingly you use water and get tips on how to reduce it. water footprint, there is such a concept, water footprint, it is increasing, water footprint, and it is increasing, they have grown together with resources together with vk, an excellent story, you can go

and see your water footprint. well speaking of jeans, that the production of one pair is approximately 7,500 liters, so maybe it’s not worth 7,500, i had data that it is 800 liters. 7,500 water footprint and the whole question is that no matter what it is, maybe you don’t need to buy a second pair of jeans in a week for people to understand all this, that’s how many interesting things we learned today for everyone to understand this, but how- then they paid attention to this, they need to be informed, morning rule, wash your face, turn on the water, brush your teeth, turn off the water, great, great rule, as in the song it is sung, yes, my native country is wide, there are many fields, forests and rivers in it, and it seems that we have a lot of reservoirs, forests, they are endless, in fact, there is water, of course, this must be understood and treated with care. scientists talk about the nervousness of the modern climate; sudden low water or flooding can happen anytime, anywhere. another opinion: where it already is...

it dries up even more, but where there is a lot of water, it still remains, this is how it looks in russia. in early august , heavy rains hit the primorsky region, and a state of emergency was introduced in the region. the flow of water washed away entire houses, roads were washed away, bridges were destroyed, dozens of villages were cut off from civilization, thousands of residents found themselves without communication lights. i was knocked down by the current and swam further around the territory. the damage caused by the flood in primorye was estimated at 10 billion rubles. occur there regularly and, according to experts, will be repeated in the future. these phenomena will happen more often and will intensify. you need to be prepared for this. there can be no transfer of water to combat floods. this is just a completely absurd idea, because building canals is extremely

expensive. if we talk. about the interception of water by reservoirs, then yes, this means works, but the risks are great and the damage is enormous , it is necessary to move the population and economic facilities, well, nothing can be done, such is life, in some cases, maybe populated areas can simply raise piles, how to do this, so that floods do not cause destruction, on the contrary, they help to collect water to replenish this most valuable resource. after all , we have floods every year, what kind of infrastructure, hydraulic structures are needed, the river, unfortunately, in some banks, built , yes, well, you can’t push it, that is, it’s difficult to do, there are thousand-kilometer dams along which, in fact, yes, having chained the river into some specific, well, yes, that’s right, the rivers overflow,

this is a common story, i pour it every spring, today’s challenges of nature, and climate change, they require us to adapt to these conditions and somewhere it is quite likely that the favorite place where we lived next to the river, it’s just today it is really dangerous for life, taking into account here those phenomena that occur, if you return from the far east, for example, to the caucasus, then these are quite regular work on straightening... river beds, well, so that the rivers, let's say, yes, during the period of melting snow in the mountains, rivers fill up very quickly, these are very fast rivers, which in their run can carry away anything there, so our task, yes, is to do it in such a way that this water does not linger anywhere and quickly , that is, such technologies exist, that is, that we we can do something like this, a solution, but

here, unfortunately, all these decisions are not easy and they are not cheap, that is, these are quite large volumes that require, well, quite a lot of funding. over the past 100 years, global water use has increased sixfold and continues to increase. according to the un, every third inhabitant of the planet is already deprived of access to drinking water; by 2050, more than 5 billion people will suffer from water deficiency. russia is second after brazil in terms of water resources, accounting for 20% of world reserves. lake press water. the protection and rational use of the resource is discussed at the highest level. the most important issue is the exchange and transfer of technology. in russia, in this sense, quite a wealth of experience has been accumulated, both in territorial redistribution of runoff, development and irrigation, development of water treatment systems, water purification and many others.