[000:00:00;00] the safety of this naturally occurring lochin corridor between armenia and karabakh, we guarantee the safety of the armenians living in this territory , but no, we were told, no, we cannot agree to this, but what will you do, we will fight, oh well, that’s the final point in the end, it came to armed clashes in the twentieth year, and then, yes, i also suggested to our friends and colleagues, by the way, also the president - aliyev will probably not be offended by me, but at some point an agreement was reached that - about that , that, uh, the azerbaijani troops will stop, to be honest, i thought that the issue had been resolved, i called yerevan, suddenly i heard, no, let

them leave that insignificant... share, which means karabakh, where the azerbaijani troops went, well, that’s it, i say, listen, what will you do, again the same phrase, we will fight, well, listen, now in a few days they will go to the rear of your fortification in the okdam area and everything will end, you understand, yes, what will you do, we'll fight, okay, that's it, that's it it turned out the way it did. ultimately , we agreed with azerbaijan that after reaching the shusha line, in shusha itself, uh, the fighting would stop. a corresponding statement was signed in november 2020. about the suspension of hostilities and the introduction of our

emperors. and so... the next very important point, the legal status of our peacekeepers is based solely on this statement of november 2020. no peacekeeper status ever emerged, well, i won’t say why now, azerbaijan believed that this was not necessary, but signing without azerbaijan was pointless, so the entire status was based, i repeat, solely on... from november 2020, and the rights of the peacekeepers consisted of only one thing: monitoring compliance with the ceasefire, that’s all , our peacekeepers had no other rights there, well, no, only monitoring

the end of the regime, the ceasefire, everything, well, such a precarious state, it lasted for a certain time, now you mentioned the chairman i respect european council, mr. michel, here in prague, that is, in prague, in the fall of 2022, under the auspices of mr. michel, then french president macron and mr. scholz, chancellor ferg, the leaders of armenia and azerbaijan gathered, and there they signed a statement, you know, a statement from which implies

that armenia recognized karabakh as part of. armenia directly named the territory of azerbaijan in square kilometers, which certainly includes karabakh, and emphasized that they recognize the sovereignty of azerbaijan within the framework of the azerbaijani ussr, which was part of the into the ussr. and as you know, karabakh was also part of the azerbaijani ussr, that is, in essence, the main, absolutely key issue was resolved, which was the status of karabakh, when karabakh declared its independence, no one recognized this independence, not even armenia, which, frankly ,

it’s strange for me, but nevertheless there was such a decision, they did not recognize the independence of karabakh, but here in prague, they recognized that karabakh belongs to azerbaijan, and then at the beginning of the 2nd third year they repeated the same thing for the second time a similar meeting in brussels, but you know, so between us, although between us this is probably no longer suitable, but nevertheless, but if they came to us, by the way, no one told us about this, i personally learned this from the press, but azerbaijan always believed that karabakh was part of its territory, but having determined the status of... karabakh as part of azerbaijan, armenia, well , made qualitative changes in its position. after that, at one of the meetings, president aliyev came up to me and said, well

, you see, everyone recognized that karabakh is ours, yours the peacekeeper there is located on our territory, you see, even the status of our peacekeepers will immediately undergo qualitative changes after the status of karabakh is determined. as parts of azerbaijan, he says, your military is on our territory, and now let’s negotiate their status on a bilateral basis, but prime minister pashinyan confirmed, yes, you now need to negotiate on a bilateral basis, that is, karabakh is gone, you can say anything about this status, but this was, this was the key issue. status of karabakh, everything revolves around it revolved over the previous decades, how and when, who and where will determine the status, that’s all, armenia decided it, karabakh officially became part of azerbaijan, this is the position of

the modern armenian state, well, what should we do, what should we do, that’s it uh, everything that happened in the recent past there two or three weeks ago and the blocking of this lachin corridor and so on, all this was inevitable after the recognition of azerbaijan’s sovereignty over karabakh, it was only a matter of time, when and how the way azerbaijan will establish constitutional order there within the framework of the constitution of the azerbaijani state, but what can you say, how to react to this? armenia recognized it, but what should we do? no, but we don’t admit it, well, this is nonsense, right?

some kind of nonsense? well, i won’t talk now, i think it’s incorrect about the nuances of our discussions, but , but what happened in the last days or in the last weeks, but it was an inevitable consequence of what was done in prague in brussels, so here is mister michel and his colleagues should have thought about it when they persuaded, apparently , apparently, i don’t know, you need to ask them themselves, somewhere behind the scenes , behind the scenes, they persuaded the prime minister of armenia, mr. pashinyan, to take such a step, they should have all together think about the fate of the karabakh armenians. they should somehow, well, at least write down something about what and how awaits them in this situation, some kind of order, the integration of karabakh into

the azerbaijani state, some kind of order related to ensuring their security and observing their you're right, but there's nothing there no, there is only a statement that karabakh is part of azerbaijan, that’s all. what should we do? if armenia itself decided so, what should we do? so, what did we do? we used everything we had in the legal sense to ensure the humanitarian component. as you know, our people died there, by the way, defending the armenians of karabakh. our peacekeepers, we provided them with humanitarian assistance, provided medical assistance, ensured their exit, and if we

return again to our european ones, then called colleagues, yes, but at least now they send humanitarian aid, let them send there for the maintenance of those unfortunate people , i can’t say otherwise, who left their native places from nagorno-karabakh, but it seems to me that this is they will do it, but in general, by and large , of course, you need to think about their fate. is russia ready to support these people? and i just said, we supported them, we have people, those who left, our people died there, protecting them, covering them with ourselves, providing humanitarian support, because we have our peacekeepers there at our center, all the refugees came there under the protection of our peacekeepers, thousands gathered there

, mostly women and children came there. well, of course, we are already ready to provide this. armenia does not cease to be our ally, if there are humanitarian issues there, they are humanitarian issues, of course we are ready and will discuss them and are ready to provide support to help these people, this goes without saying, but i just now i told you how events developed, well, briefly, but in general i said the main thing, there’s one more nuance in this one. now the azerbaijani leadership is very harshly purging those who served in karabakh, the leaders, and there are various people there, including those who are well known in russia, like rubyan vardan, for example, we can, he renounced our citizenship, he refused, but he was, we can somehow call on the azerbaijani leadership to show, i don’t know, mercy, we have always done this, we are doing it now, i spoke, as you know, on the phone with

aliyev, well, before we talked about the fact that nothing would have happened there, and he assured me all the time that no matter what happened, he would ensure both the security and the rights of the armenian population of nagorno-karabakh, but now there are no armenians left there, everyone has left, you know that everyone has left, there are simply no armenians there, well, maybe a thousand and a half, that’s it, that’s it, there’s simply no one there, but as for... the former leaders, i don’t know, i don’t want to go into details, well, as i understand it, that they especially don’t want to see them in yerevan, well, i’m proceeding from the fact that, uh, that the leadership azerbaijan will still proceed from

considerations of a humanitarian nature, in this case, when all issues of a territorial nature have been resolved for azerbaijan, thank you, colleagues, please, so please, if you want to ask questions, here is feng shauli, yes , feng, professor of fengshauli, one of our veterans, thank you very much, east china normal university, shanghai. dear mr. president, i am very glad to see you again. uh, october, international conference, its theme, dedicated to the tenth anniversary, initiative, way and train, will take place in beijing at the same time, this is almost a decade of initiative.

to connect the eurasian partnership with the initiatives that you and the president defined, but my question is the same, in the new situation, what new ideas and what specific proposals have you already thought about and prepared. thank you, we actually return to this topic many times, and some even tried, trying to sow doubts that our eurasian, our eurasian project, the development of the eurasian union, economic, and initiative chairman, one train, one track, they may not coincide with interests, there may be some kind of competition among themselves, this is not so, i have already

said this many times, on the contrary, we believe that one project harmoniously complements the other, because what is happening in relation to china, in relation to russia, well, in relation to russia to a greater extent today , in relation to china long before the events in ukraine began, some partners, we know, began to introduce various kinds of sanctions, these were some moments that turned , even all this turned into some kind of some semblance of a trade war between... china and the united states , restrictions were introduced, including those related to logistics. we are interested in establishing new logistics routes, and china is also interested , the volume of trade turnover is growing, excuse me, the volume of trade is growing, now

we are talking about north-south corridors, china is building some routes there through central asian states, we are interested in this support. we are building appropriate roads and railways, all this is the subject of our negotiations, this is firstly, secondly, all this is complemented by what is called the sphere of real production, we supply the necessary goods to the people's republic of china, china supplies us with the goods we need, and we build such chains and logistics and production... chains, which certainly fit into the goals that the shinzenpen chairmen set for the chinese economy, which fit into our development tasks, especially in the modern world of the development of our economy and partnerships with other countries, this quite obviously complements each other, i will not list specific

projects now, there are enough of them , including between china and russia, we built a bridge, you know, we... have other logistics plans, we are developing relations, as i already said in the field of real production, all this together will be the subject of our bilateral contacts and negotiations within the framework of a multilateral format, this is a large, very, very capital-intensive work, and i want to emphasize once again i want this... all this work is not whom case and was never built against anyone, it has a creative beginning aimed exclusively at achieving a positive result both for us, russia and china, and

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just calm. we trust renival, we choose renival. the emergence of sovereign states that defend themselves, they are autonomous actors in international politics, this is indeed happening, this is happening within the framework of brix, a few months ago there was a meeting also in the sco. so the world is changing, international politics is changing, the state is changing, post-colonial

states are changing. and now these states have made it clear that they want actively participate in the international community. however, international politics is formed within the framework of a system that was created in 1940 within the un. you don't see the contradiction between changes in international politics. and the paralysis of the un system, international law, how russia can help, overcome this, so that it works better, how to resolve contradictions in international politics, in a more peaceful way, so that they are directed into the future. you are certainly right, there are certain contradictions between those. framework that

were created by the countries that won the second world war in 1945, and by the changing conditions in the world, today, 1945 - one situation in the world, today is completely different, and of course, of course, these legal norms, they must change in in accordance with the changing world, here we can approach this differently, we can say that the un and modern international law, which is built on the basis of the charter of the united nations, are outdated and subject to demolition, to create something new, but here,

of course, there is a danger that we will eliminate the existing system of international rules, namely these rules, international law on the basis of the un charter, but nothing new has been created or will be created, there will simply be general chaos, it already takes place, its elements take place be, but if you completely consign the un charter to the dustbin of history. without replacing it with anything, then chaos is inevitable and can lead to very serious consequences, so i believe we must follow the path of changing international law in accordance with the requirements of today, with changing situations in the world. in this sense, of course, the un security council should include countries that acquire... significant weight in international affairs and, simply by virtue of their potential, have the opportunity to

influence the resolution of key international issues. what countries are these, well, this is india, more than half a billion, in my opinion there are already a population of more than seven percent economic growth, in my opinion, 7.4 or 7.6%, but this is a global giant, yes, there is still a lot there people who need help in support, but nevertheless, it means that personal exports are growing at a gigantic, gigantic pace, because this is a powerful country, it is becoming more powerful year after year under the leadership of prime minister modi, or brazil in latin america, the population is huge, the growth of influence is colossal, south africa, how can we not take into account their influence in the world, which means their weight in making key decisions on the international agenda should

increase, but of course, this must be done in such a way... in such a way that a consensus is reached on these changes, so that it does not destroyed, this is a complex issue, so that it does not destroy the existing international legal regime, this is a complex process, but in my opinion , we need to go in this direction, along this path, that is, you think that the existing international legal regime exists, it has not been destroyed yet, well , it’s definitely not completely destroyed, because you understand what’s the matter, let’s remember the very first years of the existence of the un. as our soviet minister of foreign affairs, mister gromyk, was called then, he was called mister nov. why? because there were a lot of contradictions, and the soviet union very often used its right of veto, but it had meaning and significance, it did not lead to conflicts, in our recent history, we

very often heard from western leaders that... topic the un is outdated, it does not meet the needs of today, this especially began to sound when during the yugoslav crisis, when, without any sanctions from the un security council, the united states and its allies began to bomb belgrade, mercilessly and fearlessly, even ending up in the embassy of the people's republic of china in belgrade, where this is international law, no, they said, there is no international law of this kind, which was not needed, it... why, because i wanted to act, well, without regard to this international law, then, when and what -russia began to take action, they said, how can it be, it’s a disgrace, russia is violating international law, but unfortunately there have always been attempts to adjust this international law to suit itself, is this good or bad, this is very

bad, but at least that -there is that is a guide. my only concern is that if this is completely swept into the basket, removed, then there won’t even be any guidelines, so it seems to me that we need to follow the path of permanent gradual changes, but this must be done unconditionally, the world has changed, thank you , sergey koraganov, i am one of the veterans. founders of the club and am in a state close to happiness on the day of its twentieth anniversary, because well, old people should say that, generally speaking, it was better under us, it wasn’t like that, under we are better, better now, more fun, more interesting, brighter, more colorful, so thank you too for your participation, but my question is this , as for fun, it seems to me that it’s not, you know, when when it’s more interesting, then

it’s more fun, that’s it when, for you, it’s more fun, to be honest, i’m not very happy, vladivich, outside here in russia, and now at the club one simple question is being discussed quite sharply, i ’ll formulate it as follows, uh, on my own behalf, of course, not from not from everyone, uh, isn’t our nuclear doctrine of using nuclear weapons outdated? weapons, it seems to me that it is certainly outdated, it even looks frivolous, and created in other times and maybe in a different situation, and even follows the old theory, deterrence no longer works, is it not time for us to change the doctrine of the use of nuclear weapons in the direction of reducing nuclear threshold and