news. the russian foreign ministry confirmed with the news agency the expulsion of two diplomats from our country from the united states and called it groundless. as the foreign ministry emphasized, washington continues the bad tradition of so -called leaks; if such hostile actions are repeated, russia will respond harshly. as previously stated. the state department reported two

russian diplomats expelled from the united states in response to moscow’s september decision to declare miongrat the first and second secretaries of the united states embassy in russia. how indicated in the mussels, jeffrey sillin and david bernstein were expelled in connection with illegal attempts to interfere in the internal affairs of russia. this week marked the 30th anniversary of the deepest political crisis. in modern russia in october 1993 , tanks fired at one of the government bodies in the center of the capital. why did this happen, and what lessons can be learned from these historical events? after all, we see that if we forget history, as they do in canada, then all this leads to new bloodshed. we will discuss the influence of history on our current life with the scientific director of the russian military historical society, doctor of historical sciences professor mikhail

mikhkov at our studio, mikhailievich , hello, thank you for coming, hello, so, 30 years, that’s a lot, that’s a whole generation has grown, as they say, you see a lot from a distance, how you see these events, well, yes, 30 years seems like a long time, but it’s also not that great in order to fully comprehend what happened there, but what happened is that russia stood on the rocks of the civil war, and in fact... in fact, there was no ideal way out then in that particular current situation , no ideal way out of the current situation, well , today we see, we are already studying history, naturally, and those events, they were included in the textbook on history of russia, by the way, how this topic is presented in the textbook, well, let me tell you a little directly, this question, there really wasn’t an ideal solution, well, in our opinion, because well, let’s remember the same story... who there

was just no one there and kirinsky tried to combine one thing with the other, that is, to combine his already cyrene strong power with that democracy that was blossoming, the stormy blossoming of the actual chaos and monarchy that was there, well, what came of it, radical forces came to power, in fact, if we today, on the other hand, burbuli and shakhrai and many, many others are here, but we will not know all the truth, we are unlikely to know it soon, everyone has their own truth, and it really takes time to figure it out, then it took time, just in this tragic october 1993, but no one, neither one nor the other country, wanted... to give someone time, yes

, the ideal, of course, could, our patriarch, who then offered a way out, yes, indeed, we are retreating, time is given, but neither one nor the other country wanted to give anyone time, this is the most tragic situation that has developed, and what we really managed to do then is the merit of our entire people, the fact that we moved away from the civil war, in the air it smelled like blood, indeed, it was starting, because, well, there was already blood, and quite a lot. in general, throughout the entire ninety-second year of 1993, we see this is a struggle between parliament, that is, the supreme council of the congress of people's deputies, from presidential power, the president wanted his laws to be adopted first of all, that is , this is presidential power, the supreme council is theirs, that is, they are this non-acceptable position: one law repealed another, yeltsin repealed the laws of the supreme council, and the supreme council, well, sort of carried out the impeachment of yeltsin’s laws and generally just wanted yeltsin to resign, and those others, they

really caught up, i’ll tell you what, at one time i worked with documents, there was such a general, if you remember, yes, there was such a historian, he wrote books. he wrote books, here he is, his archive, you won’t believe it, is located in the united states of america, in the library of congress, well, just yes, somehow, that means, we won’t say how, he took out a number of documents, including what was going on then in 1992, he was right next to yeltsin, he just wrote about how he consulted with yeltsin, how yeltsin wanted to appoint him as minister of defense, in order to suppress the supreme council, well, in such unpleasant... impartial assessments, well, even, say, aggressive assessments, he assessed the action of the supreme council, if we look at how the supreme council is the same, that is, the smell of blood has been in the air since the beginning of ninety-three, we remember the may events, when people had already died, this pressure was constantly going on, and here who

is right and who is not right, but look what really happened, that is, really the presidential power accumulated those forces that were ultra-liberal, in fact already radical, we remember how gaidar came out and spoke on television, saying: “the west will give us billions of dollars, let’s all follow us forward and further, otherwise we will simply fall into communism.” in the supreme council, it was also ambiguous, there were simply the most disparate forces there, they united, yes, against yeltsin, but in reality we will look there from the communists to the national socialists, excuse me, and this is why all the media, our former colleagues, called the opposition then. well i think i i think that here yes, at least, and we young people believed it all then, it seemed to us that this was so, well, it is, but really, where do we go from that question, that the barkashovites were there, who were on

hand-made there is a nazi stylized swastika, which they yawned, sorry to the supreme council, this was a provocation, this was a provocation, yes, well, the people, he really looked at this matter, there really were the most heterogeneous forces, and the solution is here, a specific situation , it could only be to step away and give time, no one wanted to give anyone time, mikhailavich, but why, why didn’t they want to, because the same situation developed here, we went through this in ’17, we saw how in ’17 the forces that wanted here were striving for power everything at once, at once it was impossible here, it was immediately impossible , so it was decided, yes, that is, there are no right people here and it is absolutely to blame, that is, both sides are to blame, that’s for sure. another thing, i would like to emphasize this, is that indeed, through uh, this tragic episode that we went through, which of course, it didn’t give us and the country as a whole

something, you know, positive, something that went further, but at least here after these events, i think both sides are just...... think think, if we continue this now, the country will slide into the abyss, i think that elson realized this, well, what he rehabilitated, that is, he did not rehabilitate, they gave amnesty, of course, yes, well, they could have dealt with it, for example, how the bolsheviks dealt with their opponents there in seventeen eighteen, the other side too, which could go underground there, continue the irreconcilable struggle, that is, they understood, when they you know, i watched an interview with russian, i understand that these are his numbers, he says that according to his estimate, 15 died,

supposedly the corpses were taken out by barges along the muscovite road, this again, these are his words, we don’t know how it happened exactly, but the fact that not 158 ​​people died there, because when the tank takes off the cumulative shell, to where the people are, that’s... .don't stop man, of course, of course, of course, yes, that's what they really shot at parliament, all the western media, well, with some kind of gloating even they show this, look, russians are shooting at russians, uh, here, that’s what there was certainly an element of provocation on the part of the west, that’s external intervention, which we talked about then and are talking about today, it really happened, if it had not happened, perhaps all this would have been resolved differently, here is another point that i wanted to answer, these events are tragic, they did not arise then , not even in may, ninety-three, not in september, september 21, 1990, when yeltsin issued this decree 1400 on the dissolution of the supreme council, on new elections, well, after which

all this that colleagues are now showing began, and these street processions, this arose after all, much earlier, after all, it arose during the time of gorbachev and perestroika, it arose then... gorbachev, excuse me, just brushed off these multinational problems and. well, the ostrich, which we love to this day, took the ostrich position, yes, that’s what he did i gave the order, and then it wasn’t me, but people were watching, the whole society was excited, the same karabakh, which this whole story lasted for 30 years, was then central asia, uzbekistan, kyrgyzstan, here everything is growing it went, and when we came to this situation, it was summed up by this situation , that is, society was tense, and i ... so i would also like to say, that is, the majority of society, yes, the absolute majority, of course, did not want a civil war, but

the minority in that other country is radical, on the other hand, there were radical elements who tried to solve this problem as they wanted, but excuse me, i’ll say it the way the bolsheviks wanted, for example, to solve this issue directly in the seventeenth year, they solved this problem, but what happened then , then there was a fierce civil war, that’s what red terror, white terror, the sea? today they say a lot, well , look, yeltsin’s country won, and these sharp radical reforms were introduced, well, they continued, oligarchy, seven-lordism, well, that is, in fact, the impoverishment of the people, after all, these are all loans-for-shares auctions, sales for next to nothing from the state, so they say, if they would have come to the supreme council there, and accordingly none of this would have happened, well, who? knows, history, firstly, does not tolerate subjunctive directions, but we know

who was also in the supreme council, there were also completely different forces and - well, extremes, but from national patriots to communists and democrats, that is, society was it was split, and yes, it needed time to calm down, they didn’t give it any time tragic event, which of course still affects our country, of course, those things that were tragic and aggressive that happened, they, in my opinion, of course, they were an inoculation against internal strife, of course, yes, of course, yes , but this is a heavy vaccine, which still had a painful impact on the entire country, and in many ways it has a huge number of side effects, that is, when a country develops, it is always necessary to avoid such conflicts, that is, it is always necessary to look back, look and look at the people who... are next to you, find ways to interact with them , what we are doing now, look at the

events that took place even this year, well, it’s true, we did not agree to any escalation of the conflict , they didn’t take extreme measures, because society already has this vaccination, because they realized that it could be the same as happened in ninety -three, thank god, something that was not brought to that point, but can you imagine? multinational side, there was a federal agreement then, many republics ... not they wanted the federal agreement that was proposed there by the central government, that is, the country too, this already concerned the russian federation, this already concerned the russian federation, not only the big soviet union, but of course it began with the big soviet union, this trend of splitting the union, it naturally affected republics that were in the russian federation, this is what would have happened if the parties, in the end, after this strategic event, had not stopped and thought, what next, and the country would simply have scattered, it just needs to be said that after all, ninety-three slowed down these trends, but

yeltsin’s position, take sovereignty as much as you take, and this was already prevented by vladimir putin, when he came to lay down, i think, i think that for yeltsin, too, he apparently understood in the end, something steered in the wrong direction, well, i won’t say that he took sovereign positions there, but in any case, what he ultimately appointed in the ninety-eighth year was pryamakov and did not insist on chernomys. again the split of the country, he did not agree the split of this country, that’s what just happened in ninety-three, for him, probably, it was also a big blow, well , let’s say, a serious situation that should never have been allowed to happen, well, yes, we don’t know, probably that boris nikolayevich was guided by what, but it seems in the end he realized that he was deceived, that these sweet speeches , his speech in parliament, god bless america, and so he went too far then, he wanted the best, he, he apparently wanted us to join

the western world, these are the songs that now the liberals are singing, let’s create a northern brotherhood, a big north, instead of a big south, these sentiments , they exist, they existed then, they remain today, yes, that’s america, russia, and well, canada there too , well, of course all this remains, but now about canada. but we see who was standing around then, who actually prepared the documents for him that he signed, and well , the inexperience of certain of him, let’s say, in international affairs also affected him, inexperience in economic ones... yes, he was deceived there, so he would have been an island i would give it, there in at the last moment they did something so that afanasyev, my rector, let’s say, in the history of the archival institute there, would lead this process, let’s give the kuril islands, let us have a peace treaty with japan, but this is not ours, then many said so , from gavaril popov there and other liberals, they actually seized power, yeltsin was simply surrounded, blocked, there they

would have announced sanctions for him, let’s say, if he had taken a different path, but in the end, after all , when these events ended, and there was was formed, there were elections of the state duma, the month of december, the adoption of a new constitution, and this is for me, this is for me, and it seems to me that this is the most important positive result that was made, the country went into the political plane, that’s what you say, it really went into the political plane, and those forces that were radical on the part of the supreme council, because many of them were amnestied, including people who entered the state duma, began to propose, that is, they realized what was possible through parliament, well this parliament in fact, the state duma was in many ways similar to the parliament that we, the communists, had in the majority? communists are in the majority, but this is the year 906, 907 of the state duma, that is, in many ways there was also continuity , it was precisely this continuity that began - most likely, to dominate more and more, and

that elson in the end , after all, there was continuity of power, and the fact that putin really came to power in 2000, we cannot say that it just happened, this is also due to that political process that was outlined precisely in the mid-nineties, yes, it’s hard, yes, it was just necessary to avoid these, indeed, this is when the economy simply went into a tailspin at first, then it became ultra-liberal, everything was sold, enterprises stood still, the military industry simply evlinsky said, why bother... in general the military industry, let 's leave the atomic bomb to us, nothing will threaten us, well, simply, it was complete idiocy, but on the other hand, the same the state duma, and the communists, but there were also people there who understood, who were statists , primakov was a statist, these statists also became certain, it seems to me that they slowly began

to take the initiative for the statists, and yeltsin could no longer pull the punches ignore them, that is, he simply could not ignore them, yes, it seems to me that he didn’t want to at the end of his life, and he didn’t want to, judging, you know, at the same time, excuse me, i’ll interrupt you, interview with russkov, he said that when he met with grachev, but grachev gave the command to fire from the tanks, and as i understand it, in the end , although another general was really in charge there , grachov took yeltsin in his direction, everyone knows this, this is an obvious fact, and he then told rutssky that he was like i bet on the wrong person, this... he says, i don’t know how it all happened , really, no, but the fact remains a fact, that is, but nevertheless, this is a personal relationship, a personal tragedy, and although the same rudskoy says , as i understood from his interview, that he is still yeltsin, what am i saying, it’s not about rudsky now, but the fact is that yeltsin is already somewhere, especially after 1999, when they began

to bomb yugoslavia, that we were deceived, that there was no way for russia to join the northern brotherhood. and no one is waiting for europe and canada and there won’t be one, but of course they did, but still a lot of mistakes were made , the year ninety-six, few people remember today, the same state duma, it would seem, adopted a law on production division , when a foreign company that extracts oil and gas from us, they receive a large share of the proceeds in russia, well, that is, in place of a penny, it’s just that it takes it too, it closed this shop, only putin closed it when he came, well, here, of course, it’s ninety -nine and not only, well, it was clear what they were pumping out of us money, and they pump russian resources out of us, there, well, yeltsin couldn’t, no billions want to come here, everyone told him, we only need you as a gas station, but in fact, but he didn’t want to be a gas station, yes and yelets didn’t want, and

the state duma didn’t want, just like once at this moment through the stubble, of course, but the realization comes that... we can’t live like this any longer, that is, we must take some other path and development, but a lot has changed, and this wild capitalism has appeared, but in any case, the power remained, the country remained, peoples who are numerous, they must live there and must live together, here in a multinational country there is a civil war, well, france, maybe great britain there, they had their revolutions, their civil wars, but look, if we have a civil war in in our multinational country, where there are now 190 more nationalities, it simply threatens gigantic explosions, disasters, the destruction of the country and millions and millions of victims, then it probably just dawned on yeltsin, maybe through some kind of... his illnesses and other things, but still it could not help but reach him, mikhaivich, if we go back to the year ninety-three, and the lessons that we can learn, you have already said that it was obvious, if there is a lot of evidence

of foreign influence, these mysterious snipers , who shot, including at alpha, an alpha fighter then died, and the alpha men did not carry out the order to storm the white house, they said, the legitimate government sits there, they just wanted this, that is, position, to go in a peaceful direction. the military also played a huge role, the other part, one part shot, and the other part said that we will peacefully get people out of there, why am i saying this, because these snipers are a classic, but a provocation, or there from the us embassy, ​​or from somewhere else from other high-rise buildings, but it was not the defenders of the white house who fired, like us they explained, well, the alpha people themselves say, yes, it really was a provocation, and the bullet hit between the helmet and the bulletproof vest, that is , it clearly landed there, well, maybe from the american embassy, ​​well, probably unlikely - look, the maidan in ukraine, this is clearly one on one , that is, it is clear that there were foreign specialists or maybe even

from ukraine who were there, they participated, they participated, yes, but these provocations they certainly were, when we find out exactly what and how , i don't know, but we must have this main trend, indeed, we stood on the edge of the abyss, and we were still able to avoid it. civil war, this is the main conclusion, which at all times of the people throughout our history, of course , and mikhailovich, you know, i also want to act as a lawyer for the liberal forces here, because i was involved in financial markets, then i was 25 years old, and i come home from the stock exchange, and tanks are shooting on tv at the white house, and we young people thought that there was really some kind of coup, someone was threatening liberal reforms, the construction market economy, entering the west, well, there were such young fools as today. one to one, no different at all, but we also believed in this light-night, western european miracle, the future and so on, but on the other

hand we really see that when i interviewed chubais several times, he, you know, he is a revolutionary , he is a real revolutionary, he is a convinced man who fought against communism and he was ready to destroy our entire industry, that’s what i mean, i mean that now we have some too active forces say: everyone who left is a traitor, everyone is torn down, we are reviving there almost every hour, everything else everyone you understand, this is radicalism, which is understandable, it is explainable on the one hand, the situation is really difficult in our country, now it’s the same further, but if we turn to the year ninety-three, we probably shouldn’t do this, of course, we shouldn’t do this. and we see what this radicalism led to there in the seventeenth and eighteenth year, in the ninety-third it really was fanatics and someone else

naturally, i received money, there were a lot of them for money, i worked there, and these were really fanatics who believed that the western path was better, on the best one, we must achieve that , everything will be fine, then we will live, and they instilled this idea in the people, and that is, the people who walked there and who defended yeltsin there, they believed sacredly in the fact that the market economy - i am for elosoval, in 1996 i also believed in market reforms, a bright european future and everything else, this is a panacea for all ills, we we will live and everything will be with us, then we began to understand that this is a lie, we a little later history showed this, then of course, we are always crooked in hindsight, today to allow this to happen is the same, but it is actually to turn into the same thing and this will be important for our opponents, who only achieve this, only achieve this. after all, they cannot defeat us on the battlefield, their only task, the ability to defeat us, is to arrange something here, or it will be some kind of

external influence across our borders, that is instability on our borders, either inside, or some kind of coup , or demonstration, well, what navalny actually wanted, all this accumulates and , of course, the zombification of people through the media, through social networks, then they didn’t exist, but we also saw the fact that with the tv... there was a constant zombie outbreak, come on, come on, if not, you will lose, everything will be a disaster if there are no western reforms, we must clearly and sensibly understand today, we have one main goal today, to be united, if we let's be united, and if we have common the tasks that we must solve together, that’s all, no one will defeat us, because we are together like a fist, then, of course, well, mikhailovich, being together does not mean not criticizing, some say, where is the patriotism? now, if you said something bad about the government, then you are a traitor, but here you don’t need to go too far, you need to understand that there are things that are not allowed in wartime,

criticize the army there and so on, this is not... a country of peace a normal one doesn’t do that, but true patriotism is taken into account, criticism, criticism, you have to pass this criticism through yourself, how would i act, am i responsible for this or not, and the people we see today, well, those who ran away, there are the edilmans, there are the same chubais and so on, yes, but you know, with such mockery, they like it, they are used to being on top, they are used to people liking it, but people gather around them, what is happening now, well, well, this is such a mockery of their attitude, criticism , this is not criticism, it’s simply, well, the desire to destroy everything and so that they again were in power, the person who criticizes, he must pass it through himself, think, empathize and be responsible and also blame himself if you made some mistake, then this is really criticism, then it is possible, then yes ?

but in wartime i believe that the person who criticizes had 10 times more responsibility to bear, that he is careful, any word, especially in national politics, there in public policy, it can resonate in such a way that it's just hard to imagine how it will be will turn out in general in action, including on the battlefield, we must work today and work very hard - focused, first of all, focused on working, and thinking... about the future, victory, this is first of all, well, all these disputes, come on let's leave it for later. mikhailovich, indeed, together, we will definitely, definitely win, thank you very much for coming, and we talked about historical lessons, events that happened 30 years ago, and it seems to me, indeed, we have certainly learned some of the lessons, thank you thank you very much, let me remind you that we talked with the scientific director of the russian military historical society, doctor

of historical sciences. professor mikhail mikhkov. well, with this i, alexander krievsky, say goodbye to you, all the best to you, and after a short advertisement, our broadcast will continue with the program: the duty unit. sbermarket takes care of your profitable purchases, pay up to 99% of your order with sber-thank you bonuses in any stores and restaurants , vbermarket, order profitably, credit card debts, refinance them with kholva, in installments for 24 months without interest, this i won’t miss the chance, not for my own sake. for its sake, you

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