some questions from audiences. if you have questions, please write them on a card, and you can give them to anyone. this is a question regarding a similar controversy in riverside county, and the question is, have judges here barred admission of evidence at trial. if so, how does the public defender's office address that? the judge who heard the motions in this case has decided most of the materials the prosecutor was not providing on the basis that there was a criminal investigation involving the technician who was dealing drugs

has been released, and we are learning about what evidence prosecutors have, what they would help, and we will be making motions to withdraw please, and one thing i think gets lost in some of the coverage is people think, who cares if somebody was dealing drugs? the problem is when you start looking at the evidence that was coming back, because they would do a retest of the evidence -- in some cases there were more drugs. in some cases there were less drugs. in some cases there were problems with their results, whether they were false positives or false negative common ---, and when you are talking about the integrity of a crime lab that is in charge of

deciding who is guilty and not give states and the process is flawed, you cannot trust anything that comes out of the lab. we had a dna sample that came out in september where the dna of two technicians found in the sample that was tested, and the irony is we had made a number of challenges to the crime lab requesting an audit in november the showed they lost their accreditation, and we had to go to court because they would not turn it over, and the judges were telling us, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. little did we know there was all this bubbling underneath, so it is true the onus of the burden is on the defense, because once we have the information we have to file the motion. it is a tremendous amount of

work we have to do, but what we need to do is make sure there is a process so people who were convicted can bring their cases back to court. our next question from the audience says, in santa clara county when people plead guilty to misdemeanors, what happened? did they go to jail? for how long? what type of crimes? >> one of the chief dynamics that was happening was that many people were faced with a choice between staying in jail sometimes up to a week or even longer waiting for a public defender to get to their case for just to get out right fair, -- right there, because the judge was basically saying, plead guilty. what is the big deal? that was the impression.

everybody was taking the deal. you could almost see them talking to each other. you could see them make that decision. any pointed out it is a huge deal for a misdemeanor. 5000 people just on convictions out of the courtroom, and who knows how many other guilty convictions, with immigration consequences, sometimes deportation, housing implications, job implications. it was amazing the damage that was coming out of that courtroom. of were some of the people are pleading guilty guilty? of course they were, but you did not have an advocate for them. if there was not representation. there was not advocacy for the

people. there was not advocacy for the client, the defendant, and the judge took all those hats on at once, and i think even they acknowledge they were not doing a great job of it, so most people avoided jail on some of those charges like public intoxication, but they ended up with convictions. a lot of people went to jail. >> thank you. the next question is for amy. how can we talk about ordinary injustice without talking about the inherent problem us plea- bargain is and how the use of plea bargains undermines the truth finding process of the justice system? >> i gave a talk at n.y.u. to a small group of criminal justice law professors, and one

professor stood up and said, why didn't you recommend your conclusion that we get rid of clean bargaining and that we have trials for everybody. clearly, these plea-bargain are inherently coercive, and my answer is if you got rid of a plea-bargain in, that is like saying 50% of marriages end in divorce. we should get rid of the institution of marriage. it is so much a part of our system that if we turned it on its head, first of all, people say the system would collapse, but it is an inherent part of our society and judicial system, so given the system we have worked with, i believe a plea is not inherently coercive. a plea bargain can be a good

deal if individual circumstances are looked at, and public defenders talk to their clients. they do investigations. they negotiate with the prosecutor, and if the deal is given for the courts friends 1/5 of the time, i do not think that is necessarily -- accord spends 1/5 of the time, i do not think that is a bad thing, but sometimes people do not have the resources to do the investigation, but there is this courtroom culture, where it is, let's just get this through with fast-food justice, and individual circumstances are not looked at. that is when there is a serious problem. >> 95% of criminal cases in this country result in plea bargains, which means the system itself is ripe for abuse, and part of

the problem is if you do not have a competent defense attorney challenging that, because prosecutors will overcharge. they do not have the evidence, so they can force sometimes these plea-bargain on individuals, and that is why it is incumbent for the defense attorney to really challenge when they are negotiating with the prosecutor in a plea bargain and really push for all the stuff and the prosecutors' files and let them really disclose what they have. >> we found the overwhelming majority of cases are disposed of -- of felonies are disposed of by the felony disposition conference in chicago -- in san diego, and across the state everybody has this prior to the

hearings, prior to any testing women in san diego -- to any testing. i think plea bargain with the caveat that it be fully investigated before you plead not declared guilty. that story you said about a husband who broke the leg of the infant child and threatened to beat her up, so she took the fall and pled guilty, so i think the failure to investigate comes into whether a plea bargain can be reasonable in our system. right now it is not rational. >> a couple of quick questions. the problem you are outlining -- are they also true of the juvenile justice system? >> in the work we have done,

absolutely, and sometimes, even more egregious. it is a lot easier. many times juvenile star without justices. the ability to intimidate a juvenile is truly extraordinary. when the supreme court banned this, part of the reasoning was based on science and the development of an individual's fringe continues into early 20's, so you are talking about individuals that are extraordinary vulnerable when it comes to pressures of any authority pushing them one way

or the other. that is all the time we have for this panel. we are going to go straight into the next panel. i want to highly recommend "ordinary in justice." i want to thank yoall of our panelists for coming. thank you. we will go directly into our >> once again, and the public defender in san francisco. roblin like to introduce the chief attorney of san francisco who will be moderating the next panel. >> thank you and good morning.

first, i want to show you some video clips before we move into the next panel. the public defender salary is paid for by the city. it is the public defender's due to defend the public from a crime until they are proved guilty in a court of law. >> there you are, your honor. the district attorney once here said evidence included to show evidence of missing intermission

in the report. >> that letter is a forgery. it is indeed in my letter paper. i write my letters on small blue paper with my initials on it. >> like this? >> tell me the truth. >> ok, it was my cousin's idea. >> my clients the ability to understand what is right and wrong was damaged by watching

hours of the video of one man who enjoyed having sex. >> i think we should see what he is like. >> and attorney in the public defender's office? >> at ease, ladies and gentlemen of -- the jury. >> i am willing to do this pro bono. you can get all of my expertise for free. or you could get a $40,000 public defender. >> i am terribly sorry but i no longer represent my client.

i need to be replaced as counsel. #x6rñ>> the first time i heard e term public tender was 20 years ago when i walked into the holding tank for the first time. the last time i heard the term public crusader was from a former law student talking about their perception of public defenders. so what are we? what does the public think we are? public defenders, and more broadly, criminal defense lawyers. and what does it matter if anything? those are the answers we are going to tackle this morning. we have assembled a great panelists to help us into those questions. let me introduce the panelists. to my immediate left is jonathan shapiro, an attorney and former u.s. assistant attorney, who has

spent the last several years and 10 season working on television dramas such as "the practice" and "boston legal." next to him we have jamie floyd. broadcast anger for network news. many of you know her from her daily live broadcast "the best defense. next is a local attorney who has handled a number of high-profile cases including a nationally publicized acquittals of actor robert blake and civil rights lawyer stephen bingham. to his left is a career public defender from washington state. she is a blunder and has her own -- blogger and has her own blog. so'.

does the media contributes to a negative misconception of public defenders, and more broadly, criminal defense attorneys? >> no, thank you. [laughter] >> absolutely yes. i think for the most part, there is the lack of understanding on the part of the american public on more critical role of the public defender. it is laid down in our sixth amendment. we do not teach it properly in primary school education. the public