the parties. as long as it's related to some housing type issue. it doesn't have tow be a rent ordinance based dispute. we have experienced hearing officers that conduct the adr sessions to see if the parties can resolve it on their own. >> including condos. >> is there a tenant in possession? 2 condo owners? we never had the situation arise but there would have to be tenant involvement. if it were 2 owners i don't think the rent board is the place to go. there are community boards available for that type of dispute resolution. as to the other i don't know anything about the state laws. i tell everybody at the rent board when they have questions beyond the ordinance if they are looking for legal advice they should talk to an attorney and the type of questions you are

asking sounding like an attorney is warranted. as far as public works is concerned once it's recorded the authority over the map is complete. i think i have to agree if there are other issues that might require legal council. >> likewise dbi we consider that a civil matter. those would have been bert if it was handled in the ccnr's would have spelled out the responsibility and set asides of money for future projects. >> next question, >> with respect to a 2 unit conversion, how does the city confirm the 25 percent ownership rule. and when repairs have been made perhaps without permits although aushg peer to have been done to code when they were done or today's code what is done in

those circumstances? >> could you clarify the question about no permits. >> if upon receipt of a 3 r report it appears a kitchen or bathroom remodel was done it's up to pro007 standards, otherwise looks as if it was done professionally and would otherwise meet code but no permit to support that when the inspection is done then what? >> we require you get a building permit. >> an electrical would want to do a survey if it wasn't a straight cosmetic remodel and electric and plumbing, if any seals were broken of the joints in plumbing fixtures they will want to open up the walls and

take a look. same with electrical. >> even if it looks professional we don't know what's on the other side of that sheet rock much the building inspectors i work with will have a problem signing off on stuff they don't see. building might want to look a lot of times you have the back patio of the old place where people put their vegetables and potatoes and such we see a lot today that wall is gone and there is a beam there. we want to see how big the beam is. what's supporting it? is the beam big enough? things of that nature. >> as far as the 25 percent owner occupancy requirement, you will provide a copy of a title report and provide a copy of your most current vesting deed. and that's the deed not an interspousal transfer. not a trustee that's the grant

deed. that's where we get the information as far as the percents of ownership. >> okay. if there are 4 owners 2 owning each unit and it's up to each of the parties to decide their fractional ownership and on the grant deed it 50 percent interest. >> if it's greater than 25 it's great. as long as they meet the minimum 25 percent then that's fine. >> okay. >> kind of a follow up question. you come in to take a look at a unit and you know the number of violations and the homeowners decide after that inspection they don't want to spend the money to do the corrections. they will pass on converting to the condos. i heard that at that point they

are down the path of being required to make those -- >> because they are violations. so once -- >> my concern is once you start the condo process it's too late to say, i don't want to do this or make those repairs. >> you are asking for a building inspector to enter your premise with your permission and do a througho inspection and see life safety hazards. we would have to make note of that and give you a violation. >> okay. >> you have the option of having a contractor that's familiar with the condo process go through prior to us going in there much there are architects and engineers, friends that are trades people. you have all kinds of options before we get in there. there is not an on/off switch.

once we see a violation we are obligated to make a note of it. >> okay. thanks. >> i have a question about ccnr's. is there a format we can follow or can we create our own? >> typically ccnr's are done with your attorney. and personally i wouldn't attempt to do ccnr's myself i don't know enough about the legal issues that come along with that. you might find a templet on line or something in a book store. i think you want an attorney to prepare that for you. >> that's part of the process the application is submitted ccnr's the final -- >> we don't have to see the ccnr's, what happens is you work your way through the condo process. your map records.

once the map records then our authority over the map is complete. you still have to record your ccnr's as a final step in creating your condominiums. >> okay. thank you. >> if a condo permit is won in a lottery what happens to the tenants and what are their rights then? >> well the tenants rights are spelled out in the article 9 of the subdivision code i talked about earlier. you can find that on municode.com. the tenants need to be notified when you are submitting your application for conversion. if you look on line at the residential conversion application you will see the forms that are there. and you will see the questions that are asked. one of the things, have you notified tenants and provide documentation you notified your tenants you are converting to

condo. 88 is called tenant intent to purchase. you do need to offer to your tenants the first right or refusal of purchasing. if they sign they are entitled to purchase the unit at the price established. >> okay. does that answer? >> yeah. thank you. >> question for you, there's a 2 unit ti c 2 families living there lived there for a year and a day does that convert to condo and the steps you went over is that what you use to apply for the condo? >> okay, unfortunately nothing is automatic. once you are there a year and a day you can submit your application for conversion to dpw.

if you are there for 6 months and 8 months and know you will convert there is no reason you can't start collecting the data in advanced of year. you can apply for your physical inspection report before the one year anniversary e. >> i think you can do it as soon as you decide you are going to convert, huh? >> yeah. >> the last question, where do we get this out line. this presentation do we get it on line somewhere? >> there are copies back there. >> thank you. >> it will be on line in a week. >> thank you. >> also filmed and on sfgov. including yourself. >> you will be on tv. >> great. >> [laughter]. >> can you use the microphone,

please. >> the requirements for eligibility keep changing. is it true that if a building was elis acted it can't be converted? can you speak about that? is that -- >> well, in my time with the city the requirements for qualifying to participate in the lottery i don't believe that those particular requirements have changed it's always been 3 years owner/occupied if a building is elissed it may be converted dependent on the evictions that might have happened. >> because it was elis act does not mean it was disqualified as long as no one had protected rights. >> right it does not mean it's

prohibited from converting. there are other issues but elissing is not one. >> say there is a vertical and horizontal encroachment by one unit into a common area and putting aside questions of electric or plumbing or building. legitimacy of that encroachment. say there has been an arbitration awarded the other unit of equal aim of common space to take over into their unit. at that point i assume an amended map has to be submitted so i would like you to speak to that generally and do amended ccnr's have to be submitted. what happens in that unusual situation, roughly? >> was this a 2 unit building? >> yes.

>> you are changing the shape of unit not necessarily adding units to the building? >> no additional units just some common space that used to be outside is inside in one unit and the arbitrator said, okay the other folks get we get an equal amount of common space that could be added to our unit provided all of the proper permits are taken care of first and the map is done in accordance to what you all need. >> that's done by amending ccnr's. it's not an amended map because there is a definition for an amended map. what you are describing does not fall into that category. as long as you don't add units you amend your ccnr's. that would not cover additional square footage.

>> it can be addressed in your ccnr's. >> very good. thank you. >> i have 4 units, 3 of which are small studios. i'm wondering if 2 of the studios could be made to one larger apartment. who would want to buy the smallest closet space in the country the size of my second studio. i'm wondering if it's possible to make a 4 unit to a 3 unit condo conversion. >> that's a planning issue. but i can help you out i can speak on it. what you are asking for is a unit reduction that's a mandatory discretionary review, has to go before the full planning commission. i watched them on television. i have never done it myself. it's a tough sell. you have to go before a

commission of 7 people and explain why you need to do it and if you have a good enough reason and can convince them they will allow you to do it. they are trying to protect units. we need more housing in san francisco. and it's i believe it's their position that they view unit mergers. >> my second question is i have a mixed use building is the condo process different when upstairs is a residential and down is xhscommercial. how many residential? >> one. you use the residential conversion application. you don't have to there are no owner occupancy requirements the reason is article 9 applies to buildings that are 2-6 residential units.

it would be an application for a 2 unit mixed conversion. no owner occupancy, none of that. >> is there a time limit to use this once you get your condo permit? say the market is down and don't want to sell in the future you might. is there an expiration date. >> 6 months. >> for the report. >> are you talking about for the report or the conversion? say we convert and i own 2 condos now the residential up and the mixed use down. i have gone through the process and done it. then, is there -- is that the new legal definition or is there an expiration? >> you are allowed to bypass article 9. nobody has rights to first

refusal. it's a different answer with the 4 unit building. >> i converted my 4 units 3 rentals and owner occupied. i go through the process and now -- >> article 9 section 1388 of article 9 tells us we have to notify everybody what we are doing and offer rights of first refusal to tenants. in addition while you only needed one unit to be owner occupied to participate in the lottery. now you need 40 percent of the units to be represented by an owner and or tenant that intends to purchase. in the case of your 4 unit building you need one of those occupying tenants to sign this tenant intent to purchase form to meet this before your application could go forward.

>> [inaudible]. >> units. >> any other questions. >> seeing none, i would like to thank each and everyone of you for coming. i hope this has been of some use. and we hope to see you again. thank you. [applause]