depending how big your project will be, you will come in and your first stop is planning review and again, if it meets - and right now i'm not sure what the backlog is and once you get plannings approval and it comes to us at the building department, the backlog for that kind of a project is probably in the order of two weeks. if it's a site permit that comes in first that review will be a day or two after that two week wait. fits a full permit it will probably take a little longer and that's to get you comments and corrections. now it's energy couple bent on you and your design professional to correct the drawings so they do reform to code and bring at the back to us for final review and approval so. it depends on the

scope of work, nature,d r's, neighborhood revolt answered all sorts of stuff. >> there's always two kinds of projects come to the department. really well designed and thought out, good talked to your neighbors, complete applications. that's best case scenario. if that happens we can turn that down including neighborhood notification in 3 months. >> i've heard way longer than that. >> right. i said a very ideal perfect product though. we don't get those every day though. people are trying to cut costs here or there and in the process the project doesn't come out as good as we'd like it to be or the neighbors would like it to be. in that case realistically in

new construction possibly anywhere from four to six months. if you get a,dr it could be nine months to a year. >> second question i have is how do you determine the permits fees. >> it's an the estimated construction cost. we estimate that on a standard estimating guidelines. you may put a $1,000 on your application for a bathroom remodel. i've seen $50.00 because they're like i got the tile sitting there and doing the labor myself and my neighbor and brother are having beer to help me out. but know, we have to charge you is the average estimated cost for that type of that. so, on the order of five to six $1,000.

5600. then our fees are based on that. there's schedule fees in the san francisco building codes and it basically ranges depending an how much the estimated construction cost is. i think there's a minimum of a cup oochl hundred dollars and planning, they're fees are something like 100 to 65050 depending on the type of review they have and so, but it's all for us for the building department tied to the construction costs. >> how do i find taught zoning codes? >> planning codes are on-line as are most of the hand-outs at the counter and residential, or you can go to s.f. government dot org in regard/planning and you can find all of our codes and so forth on that website or go to the office itself.

>> i can't see you. >> it's on? we spoke to the neighbors and most of them okayed the project for a single family home. there's one neighbor next to the lot that's apposing but she's encroaching the project where we're going to put a - not a sidewalk but a street up to two homes is that justified. what's your thoughts on that. >> there's always one. the heart of the problem is there's no threshold. there's no logical reason you need to file for a discretionary review. anyone can. for any reason.

planning related or otherwise and they'll get their day in the court before the planning commission. prepare your case and argue and justify your project to the planning commission and more times than not, they'll see reasoned argument and the reasonable property and approve it. so, sit justified, probably - well subjective i mean. >> thank you. >> you know, actually i may ask this gentleman a question, was it encroachment for period of five years and one minute after midnight for the fifth year? >> they've held the property for 20 years now. >> according to law it's one minute after the fifth year if

nothing was done it to that neighbor has the right to that encroachment. you can't do anything about it. >> actually, i'm not sure about that answer and the validity of that comment. any way. hang on the microphone is coming to you. >> well, i practice, going back to the historical of buildings built before 1957, i'm just curious. it seems maybe 950 of the buildings in san francisco qualify for that and second of all, what is involved in this historical review process? >> your absolutely correct. this new requirement effects the majority of properties in san francisco. but obviously buildings built in the 50's, 60's and maybe 70's. well i guess that doesn't apply

yet but even in the 50's, they don't me right historic preservation and as i mentioned to you, the planning department has sliced the city into four quadrants and we have four teams that review building applications specific too those so they're fairly familiar with the buildings in those and the design and in those in a preservation technical preshlist with a historic preservation background will review those for alterations for those that are potential historic resources and he'll take it step by step. that person will review it and determine wloornt it's a historic resource or potentially and if it's not, hopefully in most cases then he'll just pass it on to another building planner for just regular review. but if he or she does determine

it is, then it will require some additional information from you and that could vary in cost as well as the requirements required of you. >> i have a question about - let me see if i can phrase this. retro okay tuf permits. for instance there's a building with addition of another unit without permits. is there a procedure we can retroactively get that to claim that unit as legitimate? >> would you repeat the question, please? >> the question was whether or not- >> how too legalize the unit? we treat that, if you have alterations done to your home

without building permits know matter when they were done we treat that's unwarranted work to legalize you have to come in with a set of plans and start for plans. you're going to legalize or remove it. so, you would need a set of plans too show where the location of the work was and what the work was, probably the big pitfall is plumbing, electrical and structural, installation. you probably will have to take sheet rock off for us to look at the wiring and plumbing and make sure you have the necessary installation. title 24 requirements and we want to see you - or how you constructd the walls. we'll work with you. usually you don't have to pull all the street or sheet rock off. >> somebody has gone down that

road and apparently lied to you in terms of what kind of work was done as apposed to what they did. is there an enforcement of a rip out or - how do you approach that? >> it's a pretty brood question. we work with the home eveners of san francisco. you know, it could very well be if you can't legalize it we'll ask you to remove the unit if you have an extra kitchen in a single family dwelling and you can't legalize it, we can ask you to remove it and that can go up to the city attorney. does that answer your question? >> if we don't want to go that far for it, but at the same time we want to make sure

whatever he or she put in there is safe and the concerns of the complaining party, coordinate with the absolute requirements of the law to someone an accommodation that's not destructive to what's been built but get it's legalized but at the same time safe for the people over it. >> once you make a complaint you can monitor it and make additional complaints but you can't get involved the district builder and his decisions. he's a neutral third party and has to act within the code and he has to assess the question. again it's a very broad question. he has to conform to the code and planning regulations but you can call and ask where he's at with the complaint and what

he's going to do. if you don't agree you can call the supervisor. >> the gentlemen on the far end of the table indicated housing stock was at a premium does that include illegal units? >> does that include illegal units? well, i guess you could interpret that to be yes. our code enforcement in san francisco doesn't make that a priority. we don't like to evict people and we don't like to see people living in unsafe housing conditions but we don't like to evict tenants living in quote, unquote unwarranted or illegal units but we'll pursue the case and make the homeowner legalize or take out the unit if it gets to that.

>> i think it's part to realize, we don't recognize the second or third unit whatever it may be. we don't go down the street looking for them but if we get a complaint we'll investigate and write up a notice of violation like we would any complaint. we treat them no different at all. there's a perception that we cast a blind aye but it's not true. it's just not a high priority. >> i have a few questions. so, if you have 2-units or three, do you have to do one permits. or do you need three permits >> if it's apartment, everything on one, a condo, it could be or would be a separate

permit. >> 3, r's and this density rating. is that available on-line? >> sorry? >> the densities, one or two, how do you know what a buildings. where's that information. >> basically in terms of use? well the sensors i don't know- >> you can't find it on-line but you can call into the planning information counter and determine your zoning and that will determine your density. >> okay. and as far as plans go, can it be hand drawn or computer generated or you need an architect. >> the drawings the code says they have to be legable. the size is 11 by 17. the code allows you to put things on cloth but i don't suggest you

do that. it's got to be in pen or ink. it can be hand drawn but legable and a complete set of drawings. autocat is fine and preferred but hand drawn is fine. >> just a comment. this lady wanted to combine a unit and this lady wanted to add a unit and neither one can do it. is that what i heard? >> that's not correct. i said there will be a process by which that can be accomplished. i think reducing the number of units because there's a housing shortage and out street parking is requires and that's not always available but you can request a variance so you don't need to provide that parking. >> thank you.

>> in the four bedroom department or apartment, it has a double doors, i think maybe it could be eliminated, one of the doors on a double door garage to provide off street parking for the one extra studio, maybe? >> the trick is for each new dwelling unit you need an independently accessible parking space. no tandem space. when all the cars are parked. each have to be able to get in and out of the space. it's been quite common these days for people to install stackers. these mechanical things that lift your cars. i have seen them. >> this is from 50 years ago where they were back-to-back and two here and there for four

parking places, but if the one side is divided to make off street parking because my apartment - where it is, it's very complicated - the parking facilities there and for one parking place in the street would be really - especially if you rented say to someone that doesn't have a car, maybe a law could be provided because it could take up a lot of people that are only making a minimum salary and they're all over the place and i can't furnish anything to help them because i'm note allowed too them and a lot of them would love it if they could go through the garage. >> if it's a small studio unit i rarely see the zoning administrator not grant the variance for the off street

parking. >> very good. thank you. >> i would just like to - you know - you said a building 50 years old wouldn't me right historic value and i guess i take exception to that. it seems in general i heard this before that san francisco likes it's new buildings to look old and i guess it seems like there is kind of a sort of pressure an or on designs to look innovative. i would think a building from the 50's could be very significant. unfortunately there's not a lot of good modern architecture in this city and i think the policies inhibit that. >> i hope my comments didn't imply a 50 year old building could not be a historic

resource. it obviously can. and as far as new buildings looking old? that's more coming out of the neighborhoods than the planning department. >> the planning department fully supports modern buildings and architecture. it's just assumeed san francisco that everything has to be victorian and that's no longer true. it's impossible, actually. >> great. that's not what i was hearing from what you were saying. that's good news to hear that. i think we should all encourage that. >> good. how we doing on time? >> we have one more question. we're out of time? ten more minutes. it's okay. >> i was wondering if you could expand a little more on getting variation for or variance for example sepgss and

things like that? >> variances as i mentioned the planning code has standards for certain heights and widths and off street parking requirements. exposure requirements. open space requirements. rear yard requirements so all of those can be varied the only thing that cannot is height limits so. what you do is submit an application and there's a hearing before the zoning administrator. generally the last month in city hall you argue your case and rally a little support. people that oppose come and speak and the zoning administrator makes a determination and the variance is issued either granting or denying your request. >> let me finish off here by saying thank you all for coming. i mean you guys are ahead of

the curve by educating and preparing yourself. you have joanus here answering a lot of questions residents have. feel free to take - there's plenty oov brochures in the back and come down to 1660 mission and speak with our staff and what not.