of the year. some of them are very little and some of them grow all of our salads. >> any farmer's markets back then? 1970s? >> i forget about the timing of these things. i think, probably they were given with a couple of people, you knew in the 1970s. >> there are critics at the time. typically restaurants? were there critics in the agricultural industry? people that didn't like the message? >> there were critics, i didn't pay any attention. something very important happened back then, in the

year, the early 1980s. we celebrated the 20s. the anniversary of the produce. it brought together farmers and we had our first meeting 25 years ago at greens. and um that sort of lead to the following year, where we cooked for the farmer. the next year there were 50 farmers. then the next year, there were like 200 farmers. we had it down at the museum in oakland. the oakland museum. eurt became a huge successful

event. >> what kind of descriptive direction were you giving some of these farmers? everything is organic. certified this, certified that. i imagine there is a lot of false advertising. >> i suspect there is. i am looking for people that really, really care. really believe in this. it is not so much for me. you know that, to the letter certifications. it is know that we share the same values. it is a beautiful thing. you get to know these farmers and what they care about. >> let's talk about values. food and values. that is what makes this

conversation, i think, unique. not food in the context to satisfy hunger, the philosophy with food. what is your value orientation that relates to food? what is it that drives, we are going to talk more about soul food nation, school of the arts, the manifestations of this. what are those values? >> i have this theory, that um, that when you eat everyday, that there are a set of values that come with the food that we eat. so when you are out there, eating in fast food nation, and you are kind of, you know, eating in your car, quickly grabbing something, you are

digesting, the sort of advertisement, the message from the person making that food. they are telling you, basically, that food should be the same no matter where you are. and that hamburgers and hot dogs are actually good for you. and they are telling you advertising can first value. there is always more where that came from. don't worry, resources are infinite. they are telling you food should be available 24 hours a day and eating with your family and friends is not important. that food should be fast, cheap, and easy. >> right. >> so i just understood a whole different set of values by

eating differently. >> what are those values? >> food is precious. that um --, it is important to restore the land because that is where our food comes from. farmers are precious. and that um, nourishing ourselves and others is an activity that is unlike anything else. and that there is um, something really important to offering food to people that don't have it. and i could go on. >> and those values led you to desire to educate others to the

one you were sharing with many other people at the time and turned your attention to educating a generation that you referred to as the first generation, not to sit down at the family table. and you have discussed a lot of what that means. it is actually an interesting point of view. this generation hasn't had that construct that previous generations as it relates to the family relationships around the table. you started the edible schoolyard. a movement that transcends your first schoolyard that happens to be here, the city and county of san francisco. talk to us a little bit about that. [laughter]. >> are you speaking of the garden project at the san francisco county jail?

>> that was a second step. i met katherine sneed about 20 years ago. she had this project, the garden project at the san francisco county jail. she called me up one day and said, you know, we are growing vegetables out here and if we grow vegetables the way you like to have them grown, would you buy them from us? i said sure. she said, the only thing>> local jail owned and operated. you were that definitive? >> i have had lots of experiences with farming, over

the phone, you don't know what to expect. she said i want you to come out and see this project before you make a decision. i went out to the jail in san baru.n. o. she had 7 acres of land planted. she said tell alice about what is going on here. this one guy said hey, you know, i have only been working in the garden for one day and this is the best day of my life. 21 years old, in and out of jail a couple of days. i said i am buying the vegetables. [laughter] doesn't matter to me. it turned out to be an incredible relationship. what was so beautiful, it is

not just the growing of the food that was transformational, but the offering of that food to the homeless of san francisco, that changed everything. there were, you know these guys would be let out of jail and wanted to stay in so they could work with katherine. she opened up a halfway house garden. we became very good friends and continued to buy from them. ultimately the graduate withs from that project went into the tree core and planted trees and also came to the farmer's market and sold vegetables for a period of time. i figured if you can do it in the jail, maybe you can do it in the schools. [laughter]. call me foolish.

>> so you are driving along, that idea was generated or was it generated when you started looking at this old abandoned site? >> all of that. it all gelled. i had been a montessori teacher. i have always believed in public education. it is the only place where you can touch every single child. it is our last truly democratic institution. they could grow up learning food values. >> you opened up the first one at mlk middle school. what was the reaction when you contacted the principal, i have

an idea, that concrete parking lot, i want to convert it into an edible garden and educate your children of slow food of all things. >> he was very charming and wonderful and open and desperate. desperate. he wanted us to come in and beautify the school. he knew chez panisse had something to do with gardens. he hadn't eaten here. this person could be useful, let her come in and see what she can do. so when we walked around and talked, okay, well with, you know, i'm prepared to do a garden, i'm not sure i'm ready to feed every child a real

lunch. he said we better wait a bit. i said it is all or nothing. he said i'll get back to you. it took him 6 months and then he called back and said i have been working with parents and the teachers and i think we are ready to have you come. that is the vision is to feed every child at school. >> and you were able to accomplish that? >> yeah. [laughter]. not yet. we will. we will. it is very hard to work in a public school system like the one in california. >> sure. >> because we don't have any money for books, to pay teachers, to fix up a kitchen. >> who paid for the capitol work to rip up the asphalt and plant the garden? >> me.

i just called friends. i said would you lend me the money. a couple of friends wondered what people, [inaudible] for the literacy and suzi [inaudible], that was the beginning. we started a chez panisse foundation. its purpose was to raise money. >> the genesis came from the idea of the edible schoolyard? did the reaction, what was the reaction of the parents? were the parents suspect? were they concerned you were invading on the curriculum? did they think this was a waste of time for their kids? how did people respond?

>> we did everything we could bring them into this delicious way of thinking, both the kids and the parents. so we weren't, we used to bring math classes over to chez panisse and feed them lunch. the teachers were having a meeting and i wanted them to incorporate these ideas. we had to feed them to them. we invited the principals for dinner and lunch. it was all through drawing them in through a pleasurable experience. once you get hooked, you see, on the flavors, you give very

willingly. [laughter]. >> i want to get to soul food in a second. how do you answer? you pick a carrot? what is the education? what is the narrative? >> the math teachers bring their kids out into the garden. >> math? >> math, into the garden, we have a couple they decide they are measuring the beds. the kids are having a good time doing this thing because they were in their boots in the grass and picking a couple of ras berries on the way. hands on education is a way to really make an impression and have the education.

so they are doing that. they are counting snails. >> counting snails. >> you know, there are so many ways. how many buckets of water does it take to water the bed? it is just very, um -- exciting, kind of process that gets them engaged in the math, in the class. you do the same in the kitchen. you are studying geography, in india, finding where the spices come from. pounding them and sprinkling them. >> i can imagine the history and social studies. >> you could be having a language class, it is all in

spanish and making the food. it is an english class. >> they are not just cultivating the food, planting the produce, they are actually in a kitchen. >> are there such things as kitchens? >> we took over one of the bungalows. we asked an artist to paint it. we recycled and made cabinents. i made it a place where they like to do their homework there. they like to be in the room. they like the smells. it is something that, you know, it feels good like warm bread

coming out of the oven. that is something kids miss. some people say 85 percent of the kids don't eat a meal with their family. >> this has caught on in other places than san francisco? >> yes. >> tell us about them. what are the models, now, not just california, certainly not just the bay area. >> there are gardens growing everywhere. and there were a long time ago. this isn't anything new. but the idea of connecting the garden to the kitchen to the table and back to the garden again is the whole cycle. that is really transformational and important that we do. that we just don't have one

little piece. the whole thing really makes sense. you don't want to have a cafeteria that is inconsistent with the way you are growing food in the garden. >> is it your belief that every public school can and i assume should do this? >> i really believe that. when you see this and everybody can come. we have 1,000 visitors a year and over the 12 years, a lot of people have come into the garden. when you see the program and see the kids doing this, you believe every school should be like this. there are montessori schools and all schools in europe and around the world where there is

the way the children are fed, food locally produced and food that is ripe and in season. >> you have a book coming out soon, i asked alice if she could share some of the photographs with with you. i couldn't resist the opportunity because you brought them with you. they are right here. perhaps you can just show us photos. pictures are the proverbial of 1,000 words. you can see the faces of children that have had the privilege of these schoolyards. >> i want to show you this one picture. you can't quite believe this is, in fact, a real picture. it is not out of the "wizard of

oz" [laughter] i'll show you the one that is, this is what it looked like before. that is the before and the after. >> which schoolyard is this? >> king school. and this is king school. this is a beautiful one and they are setting the table. >> imagine social interaction and sense of community that this is also a powerful point, working together, partnership? >> the 2 things that are most important, um, i believe, that we have learned from this program, is that when kids grow it, and cook it, they eat it. that is why [laughter] because

they have a self-esteem and like to cook for their friends and like to sit at the table and tell stories. they have been missing this in their life. other thing that it is fun. that this is not school in a way, for them, but they are all doing the work of it. they are careful tasters. [laughter] they look down under the kiwi, they pick it when it is ripe. these are the bugs in the garden, they know the names of all the bugs and all the edible flowers and know what compost is. this is one of the girls that is collecting the eggs. she is learning about bio

diversity by looking in her basket. blue, white, beige eggs. it is an amazing thing. this is another one from the garden. this is the kind, kids don't get up. when they are wondering through the rasp berry fields. >> these are kids living in urban areas. >> these are 7th, 8th, and 9th graders with the chickens. that is the important piece, there. >> right there devoted to the viewing of children. right there in the middle of every school day lies time and

energy devoted to the feeding of children. to a joyous education, a way of caring for our health, environment, and community. >> this is the bungalow that we transformed. this is the beautiful little moment. this is about socialization that happens in the circumstances of the kitchen. we have the piano there, after they finish one of the kids plays while they are cleaning up. that is the ultimate testimony to the congenialties that have inspired by eating together. can you imagine growing something like that? you feel like you have magic, to grow a sun flower that looks

that beautiful. and shall i ask you a few questions? >> no. that is my day job. [laughter]. >> 40 years ago, back way then, kennedy, his condition on physical condition. decided we were not physically fit for the new frontier. he said we should put physical education into every school in america. and in fact, everybody took that very seriously and we built tracks and gymnasiums and hired teachers and spent a whole lot of money, buying equipment. every child had to take it, part of the core curriculum and got graded on it. >> as you point the finger at

me. [laughter]. >> couldn't you just decide we are going to have a core curriculum here? >> where are our school board members? are they here? >> every single child was going to eat food locally produced, unsustainable? there would be a criteria for buying the food for the schools. by investing in the schools, you are transforming the agricultural around san francisco? >> [applause]. i love -->> you love what? >> i love the idea. is this part of the discussion with the debates we were heard

about, other important issues, i confess, i haven't heard much about a curriculum. i do reference and do enjoy, no other reason to read these books, alice has a couple of books, the one with you are seeing right there. the wonderful in this book, it is about alice. written by alice, a wonderful give and take between then president clinton and then herself, where she simply refused to take no for an answer. as it relates to a desire to do just this. did you make any progress? >> we have a great hope. i am counting on the victory garden that it is intended to be planted here.

>> tell me about the victory garden? >> we are going to have this big event in september. >> that brings us to slow food. >> that does bring us to slow food. >> i confess, i have been talking about the slow food conference we are having labor day weekend, so september, people are like what the heck is slow food? i know what fast food is. what is slow food? and what is slow food nation? and what is this conference you are bringing to america? >> and what do you say? [laughter]. >> i look for inspiration straight from you, read one of alice's books. >> what do you say? >> i will be asking the

questions. [laughter]. slow foods, does that mean produce slowly cooked? something that took along time to get to the table? slow foods? >> slow food is um, slow food is a way of thinking. and um, thinking about the world. and it is an international movement started by a guy named carlo petrili in rome, italy. he thought it was more effective than holding up signs and saying, don't put that in here. he sat down with all of his friends, they