of a driver. and i believe that we have on urban streets not to stick out four freet -- feet from the driving lane, and i have heard of them approved as long as they are four feet. >> on a state highway is that two feet? >> i am sorry, i can't speak of specific projects. >> i know for van ness, the transportation authority is leading a study are if the bulbs out, and i think they seven feet wide and there are concerns and the transportation authority is leading that effort. >> john scott here, i would have to say that the disabled community prefers the bulbs out and the parked cars and

overgrown plant material obscures that person from the driver. and secondly, the bulb out serves a purpose to shorten the distance across the street. and getting down a curb ramp, a person has to pause and be careful and back up to the gutter, and there is a time delay and a distraction for the wheelchair person or visual impairment. and there is that delay before the intersection. and those conditions are not factored into timing of pedestrian crossing signals. and bulbs out have a great benefit for people with disabilities and that's one of those principles in universal design where it benefits safety and functionality. >> last question. >> quickly, if i can add to

that caltran's bulb out. and we heard about concerns for high hits when pedestrians are standing on bulb's outs and large vehicles clipping pedestrians on the upper half of their bodies when they stand there and that high hit issue is another. >> and before that, david. >> i didn't see ellen's slide of the widen bulb out but heard chuckles about turning the space to the people in the street. and you have to remember that the bulb out serves a lot of functions and if you forget the functions, then it's useless. and it's a difficult and they serve interesting and vital functions to the space and they provide open space.

and can you do them to the point that you just wonder why you bothd -- bothered to put them in and we have to fight that tendences. >> i have two questions, what is the criteria when people cross the street and can cross all four corners and sometimes on the pole, they have the button, press the button and walk, does that work? or is there a time, what is the purpose of pressing the button? >> there are very few signals in the city that are pedestrian activated. but if there is one there, it will work. but if it doesn't work, you can call 311 and report it broken. and we are installing the pedestrian signals and you push a button, there is one at back of the room. you and get an audible tone and

vibrating arrow. and those are installed at intersections where the walk comes up when there is a green light, it's not to get the walk, but for the accessible signal. and we are ordering signs that will explain that. there were six intersections that were a part of a pilot project and they push for audible signal only, and van ness and market and grove and van ness, what is your first question? >> [inaudible]. >> the pedestrian scramble, we use that when we have a high volume of pedestrians or turning vehicles. and ellen mentioned the conflict of turning vehicles and pedestrians. and we use the pedestrian

scrambles in the financial district and south of market and union square when we have tight intersections and in larger intersections, doing a pedestrian scramble would require more signal time and that could have negative impacts on muny -- muni and those are things that we balance. >> and [inaudible] intersection is always my nightmare, and if we re[inaudible] driver's license and make a tough examination and they have to pass every question and if they don't pass, no license, make it work out. [applause] and instead of

spending money, educating, there is no need for more education, they know but they ignore it. and we have to make it very, very, enforce the law very strongly. and in england and hong kong, and you know when you cross the street, you cannot pass [inaudible] and this side they got a green [inaudible] it hold up other traffic. so we have to maybe, be wise from them and make it tough not to get driver's license easily. and if they abuse and fine and hit that pocket very, very heavy. that's the only way to make them learn. we spend so much money educate

and educate and we suffer the same old thing. >> i think your comments are a great segway into the next session and it's an open discussion of today's proceedings and we will take comments on write them on the flip chart. and hold that thought and i want to thank our panelists for all of their information. [applause] and i would like to ask peter albert to come up and lead the open discussion. >> all right, this mic is on,

first of all, i want to take one step back and thank christina for doing such a marathon job all day, being the emcee and monerating the panel. and i am sure that christina would say she didn't this alone and with staff from kudo's and great job. and this is an important step to look back and figure out, and what we heard all day, is there a problem, and the answer is yes. what ramoan smith showed us the eloquent seven images and that's a scratch in the surface. and we heard a lot about details and specifics, and there is a problem, it's a problem solvable. we put a man on the moon, and should be able to address some of these issues here in san

francisco. and more real ift -- realistically, we are responding to decades of traffic and focused on traffic, and made a lot of the problems of traffic and addressed. and in the last 10 to 15 years, we turned that notion on its head. and in san francisco we adopted the transit policy and that is for pedestrian as and bicycles as priority and we are in the stages of fixing the problem and making the pedestrian network a primal network in san francisco. as matt said early on, he's not going to be happy until zero is the number of pedestrian accidents in san francisco. and we pointed out that this is

a tough city for the planning and we have a transit system that's robust and needs fixing and we have a bike network to get out of the injunction phase and get back to building. and we have a parking challenge and on top of that we have the pedestrian concerns and network and imperative. and i see as pedestrians as special, they are probably the most vulnerable of all modes of transportation. and at some point, every one of us, we are pedestrian, this is the one mode that cuts across everything and demands the most immediate attention. where is all of this going to go? and now i will make sure that we cover these issues and write

on the easels and the comments that you give, this will be materials that feed the better streets plan, and materials that will go into the effective plan, and how can we pretend to come up with a network that doesn't include the pedestrian's needs. and include this in the bike plan and work with the transportation authority and as they update their plan and be sure that the priorities in that plan and they have money and that can lead to solutions. and we work with other departments and public health, and thank you for your generous support of today's summit. [applause] the planning department, they have their general plan, and that's right for updating and i should know, i helped update it

and i was just a kid. and we have the element, and there is the forum as you grapple with these issues and they land in a city plan. and dpw and they deal with area plans and they look at different ports, and put in the port and they come up with solutions to be more livable, and now we get the opportunity, this is what we heard out the summit and this is way to do the pedestrian planning. and we don't have all the answers but we heard from people from other places and they have great expert experience with cities where the pedestrian issues are very far

advanced. and i think we take this summit and summarize what we hear, and the people that are interested in summaries of the summit, we will make those available and this is the beginning of the series of summits. and i talked to matt, and this is the beginning that the pedestrians get their day in the sun, or fog in san francisco. and we love acronyms, we are transportation people and we look at acronyms to tell us what we did. and we had four sessions, one on safety and enforcement and one on education and last was design. that's s-e-e-d, you are helping us plan the seed for the first pedestrian summit and will bear fruit down the road and we have

the responsibility to nourish that plan and keep it green, and when you come back, you recognize what great progress we have made together. and on that, i would like my colleagues around the room to help me and record comments and feedback. because we will conclude this with the lessons learned. and some experts we have asked to come and join us and helped us, and ellen and jason and jack and others will take your comments and reflect back and tie this package up neatly. and i have a roaming mic over here and to help monitor this and spend minutes looking at what we heard and things that need to be heard and get those on the easel. >> hi, i am richard, and i

mentioned this comment earlier today, and i think that the mta bicycle program needs to be integrated with the safety program. and i think they are having a thing starting a safety program. and maybe next time they have a summit or we have a summit, that we are integrated and work together. >> thank you. one the key problems that's occurred, over the years, working with us, that the pedestrian issues and pedestrian safety and pedestrian as a form of transportation has always had to work its way up. and the city changes the departments and new plans and has to work its way into a particular plan. instead of working from the top down, like a priority, and like transit first policy, it should

be pedestrian and transit first policy. and part that have is the problem, the charter, and not being approached by an sftod, and they look at transportation as a complete picture. the planning department is doing a terrific job with the beautiful streets and still seems that the pedestrian stuff is there and every time you go to a different plan, have to work it down in the formula, and the trickle down of funding, it's the last thing that gets funded. and it's a patchwork, and not a consistent, uniform sustainable design effect of the whether a pavement marking or bulb out and not uniformally and to get that corridor to work

uniformally and that's one thing. and we talk about tool kits and this approach. and the city has to do a policy, like the sf parking thing is the first comprehensive and to look at parking as an issue. and not just say no one have a vehicle, but there is a balance between pedestrian rights and walkability and the needs for families and other people that need vehicles. there needs to be that flexibility and we need to be a community that believes in the quality of life and green and can't be abusive to tourists and too many people have gone back with stories about towing. >> and i emphasize the need for balance, and i assure that one

goal behind the livable streets group was to integrate the modes and a comprehensive and integrated way. and i share that concern, and we need to remember that pedestrian planning needs to be integrated through all aspects. >> i want to voice my concern about eastern neighborhood and that transportation planning, i think this is a really important part of our urban planning, the eastern and industrial areas. and so many of the decisions made in the early days was to maintain industrial and lower land value, was the guiding principal for the neighborhoods and it will be difficult to get these green pedestrian friendly neighborhoods that are livable and walkable in historic

neighborhoods like mission and others that are mixed used. and proposed by the supervisors that those neighborhoods be destined for old style industries. and i am concerned about the sequence that this planning has gone through. rather than looking at transportation first and locating the corridors and the emphasis is to lower land values across the area and present that and i don't see how that mind-set in the planning department will generate the pedestrian livable community that we all think that we need. and you say we are working in that direction and people don't realize how dysfunctional.

>> and for the people in the area and the eastern area and it covers four neighborhoods, and jerry robbins and helping me to address the concern that you raised, this is a planning effort without the strong transportation planning in place, to make sure that as the land use changes and what direction, that we build the transportation network that we need. and it's a series of neighborhoods that were built on freight and it's a tough set of neighborhoods to walk through. and however there are important developments, and the ptp, as you see the graphics in the back and looked at these neighborhoods and trying to match those resources. and we will bringing on a

planner and to manage these neighborhoods and resource of our agency and transit and bike and pedestrian and traffic and sf park and that will be what they do. they make sure that we catch up with the planning that's gone in the eastern neighborhoods and grapple with the transportation needs there that are significant. and judy, you will be working with me and i got the word today, and that planner, and if you know great talented people that manage planning and they want their name on the list, and sign them up, i want the best and brightest. >> i am karen and there is one issue i haven't heard today. that's the conflict with large trucks and pedestrian safety, and traffic in general. this is focused mostly in the

southeast part of the city, it's a major problem and the city doesn't seem to want to have a system of truck routes that is sufficient to make truck drivers want to use it. when we are talking about the city, we never talk about bayview-hunter's point or visation valley until after the city plan is completed developed. and then as an after thought those neighborhoods are put in. and truck routes is an issue that needs to be a part of this discussion throughout, from the beginning to end. when you talk about the eastern neighborhoods' plan, you need to include the southeastern neighborhoods. >> yes, that's great, and peg has developed the bayview-hunter's point transportation plan and that

identifies the truck routes. and you are right, transportation doesn't stop at cesar chavez and we are including the bayview-hunter's point in the eastern neighborhood plan, and i appreciate you reminding me of that and we have to look at those areas and movement is important and trucks are big and yet people live there. thank you. >> i am concerned of the lack of human element and we are talk being about and it seems that people can affect pedestrian safety as much or if not more as the things you are talking about. we were taught that when you learn to drive, that you stop

on the yellow. and now they stop on the red. why don't we go back the way it used to be, we don't hear to stop and look and listen. and these are the basics that we are missing. and we could have a bumper sticker, i sometimes stop on the yellow. and there are a lot of things of changing people's habitat. and about seven week agos, i took a pledge not to jay walk and to wait until the signal turns to walk. it's difficult and i have been doing it and only broke it once in seven weeks. and if you are concerned with safety, it may be nice for you to set a good example and take the pledge. >> that's a good point, and walking around city hall and it's difficult, everyone around

you, they go, what are you doing? >> marty from san jose and i read about this in the chronicle this morning, and finally made it and i would like to find about it sooner. and we have problems too and one thing about pedestrians, they think they are standing on the curb and can go across. and some problem has to do the pedestrians and education through your local cable channels and this is the proper way and everyone else is doing it. and once they get in the crosswalk, they have their ear stuff on and not paying attention. and i watch my mom cross and it scares me. and wants to go across and doesn't know that the trucks come along and education is a

big deal and pedestrians should bear the brunt. >> yes, we are adults and need to set the examples. >> please keep us included, visation valley and thank you for that and we have asians and newly arrived immigrants and they have no idea and want to thank you for your time and this process, and how do we use this the most, and the comments and safety is everyone's issue, and regardless, and i want to say that, i am surprised and i haven't seen anyone from the unified school district to talk about safety with the children. and i have been a teacher for the unified school district for 35 years and every time i take

the kids on the street, and my eyes are back and forth and the careless drivers and that needs to be included in this summit as well. >> i want to mention two points that i mentioned before, and one is about the freeways and ramps and that there needs to be a reprioritization and yes, the freeways are here and we have to live with them, but they are on territory, we are not scurring around their needs, and that needs to flip and be walk around freeways and let them slow down. and the sidewalk parking and that should be, and we need leadership on that and a commitment on that and publicity that cars will be ticketed without being called in. now what happens, a car gets a

ticket on the sidewalk, who called that in. which neighbor do i want to be mad at. and this creates dissension in neighbors and that happens because the city hasn't done its job and it needs to do its job. >> i want to get on the list some things that i suggested today. a couple that had to do with drunk driving, and i think that bars should be required to post in the bar, the laws regarding drunk driving and the consequences for doing it. and then secondly, in the bars, i think that muni should consider with perhaps the bars paying in part, to have next bus put in the bars so that people in the bar can see when the next muni is coming. and finally, as a teachable moment, i think that the change

from being a driver to being a pedestrian that occurs when you put money in the parking meter is a good time to put on the parking meter some law s that relate and govern how drivers are to treat pedestrians and how pedestrians are to obey the law and that's a great place to teach the people and alert them. >> i have three things and firsts is echoing about neighborhood planning and those efforts and i am curious and i heard the new planning director speak of how they will do many more neighborhood plans, and that's a terrific thing and want to understand the mechanism to be sure that there is transportation planning in each neighborhood plan. and we have a history of not doing those two things at the same time and that's a big