average cost of the school bus, we'd be saving money? if we could do an analysis, that would help me. commissioner: i just want to say this. the issue of the frequency of bus lines around school start times, we have three or four new directors, in what i think is that the timeline is too short. planning for the budget crisis, whenever, and their high level discussions about long-term

planning. i would tell you that this would be framed in the context of transit first. if you want people to choose their schools, taking kids to school by car and maximizing public transportation, they're going to have to be planning years and years out to change generally all of the bus routes or only some. to change the frequency. because changing the frequency of buses, this is what i mean. they have built in a lot of very frequent bus routes and 5:00 in the afternoon but none at 3:00 in the afternoon. and that is usually an afternoon issue, because kids go to school at the same time adults go to

work, so it is the coming home from school that is the issue, and i think we need to talk to them about long term planning. whenever we think about that is great. that seems to be the sticking point. some have said you cannot imagine what it would be liked they do not have the equipment, whether -- whatever, so i think we are aiming to a low. >> we actually had somebody at the table this time around,

which we usually do not have anybody working with unique on this, and it in director ford is looking for to that. we have not been able to do that. they're very interested in morning to help with that, and they consistently asked about what would work. we figure out what our own plan is, but certainly, the routes they have added and the way in which they look at patterns, it was actually a person at the table. commissioner: the main area i

have is the afterschool proposal. we do not have full capacity, and just looking at my own schools, there are kids that are being bused to four or five after-school programs. if you are saying that we would not suddenly offered transportation to his children that are being bussed off-site, they have nowhere to go. their families depend on it after school. until we can guarantee capacity, we cannot jerk that right out from under the families. i think there would be a willingness, but i think we have

to be thoughtful about that. it is somewhat unfair of us to say there is no capacity on site for your kid, and there is no capacity and our child development for your kids, so therefore, we are quick to charge you for something that you have been getting for free. so if we're going to ask people to pay, what we need to do is ask it places said that where there is capacity on site, we could say to people, ok, you're going to have to pay for it. so i really would just urge us to be thoughtful about that, it is after school is one of those things that is absolutely essential. you cannot expect a six-year old to get home on the muni by themselves. anyway, so that is my strongest

reaction that i have. i think, also, i am open to not grandfathering stops, and i think we have to draw the line somewhere. i just think we have to give notice about this year, you will have it. next year, you will not. as commissioner wynns said, it may be so draconian that i would not vote for it. we cannot be cavalier about that. >> i am going to direct staff to do an analysis on these. as much as i like a lot of these items, the reality is, here we

are in september, and we do not even have a budget for the state of california. i hate to be the party crasher here, but we do not know where we're going to end up yet, and we know that for next year, after making $113 million worth of cuts, we're still going to have to make more cuts, so i think it would behoove us to have a breakdown of what these different items would yield, because it is better to have that. it is good to already have that information clearly identified. yes, after-school programs are great, and especially, i agree with commissioner yee, if people cannot financially afford that, that is one thing to consider, but if they cannot afford it, i think they should afforded, because we are not out of this

crisis, and i wish that i could say that we are, but we do not know. we know that next year is going to be a really tough year, and we do not know how the year after that is going to be. i think it really helps all of us to make better decisions once we break down all of these different costs. if this other thing happens, this is something else we might do. for the most part, when we could afford this, it was great, but in reality, a lot of this stuff we can no longer afford, so we're going to have to make choices on class sizes and the different issues, and i think this also will have to have a number to it, just as we have a number for increasing class sizes, just as we have a book of list of all sorts of different things. i think it would behoove us to get that down so that as we move

forward -- just think, as crazy as it sounds, in january, you have got the state of the state address, ok? when you think we are already in september, and we do not have a budget, what state of the state address would we get when we do not even have a budget? so those are things that we're constantly looking at. regardless of the decision the board makes, we are going to get those numbers, because we need to make very well-informed decisions, and that would be a good mechanism to have in place. commissioner: ok, i have a couple of more comments to make. i really appreciate the cost of the after-school transportation. i appreciate what commissioner norton said. this is something we did not do not that long ago.

let us add a stop there, and then this one, and that one. this is something that nobody does but us. we are busing kids to private daycare situations. now, i do understand that people depend on it. they have come to depend on it, and that is why we're talking about it now as opposed to next year, and we're talking about changing the start time to save a lot of money. a few years ago, we talked about it in april. people said, "oh, my god, i do not have time to make these arrangements." now, we're talking about kind of one year in advance. we should look at all of these things. i personally think this issue of afterschool transportation to daycare, we should make it our own.

it is something in my mind that is in a separate category. some people are really dependent on it. class size are not having enough money to spend on food at lunch time, there are just things. i am making presumptions about the relative cost. it could be very little for all i know. commissioner: can i? commissioner: go ahead. commissioner: i think we want to have after-school at every school, but the reality is, we do not have that right now, and families have made choices and are continuing to make choices about expecting that there will be capacity for them, and so, by all means, let's rationalize it and have a plan about the after-

school programs, but until we can accommodate people who depend on us, i think it is, you know, i actually should think we should have a conversation. at some places, some parents might say, "i would rather have larger classes than get rid of the after-school programs." commissioner: that was the next thing i was going to say. i think whenever we know about the implementation about the afterschool plan, -- whatever we know, we need to know that at the same time that they're bringing us proposals for transportation. i said to the superintendent, "wait a minute. i thought we were going to implement that. we postponed it from this year to next year. i think we need to know that. also, part of that discussion, and we had that last year, was

about also the idea that we talked about for a long, long time about some kind of rfp for private providers to bring some of those in. maybe it will save money on transportation. convenience for everybody. so there are questions related to the after-school program. last, i do want to say that grandfathering is really an emotional question, but i think it is time. we are proposing a shift in student assignments. if we grandfather, we say just the ones that are in the school now, so another five years, then

what about the ones next year? it will never stop. we were making a remark about great-grandfather's, but, truthfully, -- about great- grandfathers, but, truthfully, we need to weigh that against as much as we know about what it costs us and have those resources are aligned. i guess i am against grandfathering, but unless some the convinces me otherwise -- i am willing to -- show us where that is not workable, where you need to grandfather, not just for people's conveniens. i would just quickly reiterates -- reiterate if they do not have the transportation for them, so

that may mean some kind of facilitated process. ok, i think we are sort of there. we have some business. she tells me, i am sorry, that i failed to read out the number of the resolution that we made a recommendation on before, so the resolution for the attendance areas, the elementary attendance areas, and the substitute motion for the phased in feeder pattern is resolution 108. the committee made a recommendation positively to the board to pass that. this resolution, the general education transportation policy. the recommendation is that we accept a new timeline, and we would recommend to the board that this will come back to us

this would be on november 9. that is going to be the recommendation from the committee. and i want to thank all of the communities, those who have stayed to the bitter and, and those who have stayed home, may be watching on television now, and also, thanks to the staff and to members of the board, all of whom were here. i think that and i hope that the members of the public understand how important all of this work is for almost every member of the board who has been here.

so our next meeting is october 13, which is a change date, because the monday is a holiday that week. they key to everybody for coming. dch

>> cents and cisco's buses and trains serve many writers -- san francisco buses and trains serve many riders. the need to be sure they can get off at their intended stop. the digital voice announcement system, which announces upcoming stops, can help these low vision riders know where they are, but only if set properly. >> it is a wonderful piece of

technology, but in practice, it is a little bit more tricky. oftentimes, i find that the automatic announcement system is turned off or turned down so low that i'm unable to hear it, or it is turned up so high that the sound is distorted. >> most of the time, it does not ever seemed to be on. or is it is, it is a really quiet. occasionally, it is so loud that it is distorted. >> driver, may i have california st., please? >> no problem. >> whenever the announcement system does not work properly and a driver does not call out the stops, and i'm totally lost as to where i am. the announcement system calls out the stops, but to help the customer, i caught the destination, transfer points, and requested stops. and it is the law. >> i use the p a system to make sure everyone on the bus here is

my announcements. >> i have had both experiences with the loudness and the to stop for the announcements. you are never going to have it exactly balanced for every trip because your level of noise changes. the announcement system ranges from 1 to 10. 10 would be too loud, a little distorted. eight is a good number. not too loud, but loud enough for everyone to hear and understand what is going on. >> i think bus drivers might not be aware of the fact that if you let a visually impaired person off at the wrong stop, number one, they may be absolutely unfamiliar with the area they are in. >> the driver overshot the stock that i wanted. i decided to get off and find my way back, but it was very disorienting, not exactly understanding how far i was. number 2, it might be a potentially dangerous situation

if they do not know the area and are attempting to make crossings that they are unfamiliar with. >> they let me off somewhere else. i had no idea where i was. i missed the stop, and the bus was gone. then, i look around. i tried to find someone to help me, and i cannot find anybody. i would have no way of knowing where i am at. >> [inaudible] i asked why he did not stop when i asked. we did not panic. we do not know where we are. we do not know what is going on. i get over there, and right away, i almost got killed. >> #3, it's the person in question is trying to get somewhere, it is going to make them late for whatever they are doing. >> i had to find my way to a

corner and ask someone where i was going to and how to get there. i eventually made it to my appointment, which was with social security, but i was very late, and they almost did not see me. >> i was very late former doctor's appointment, and there was concern about whether or not i could be fit in. >> when i get off i stock that is unfamiliar to me, because i have no sight, i cannot just automatically orient myself off to a new environment. it takes a lot of training, a lot of work. there are a lot of skill sets involved when i am first introduced to a new area. to get off at an unfamiliar bus stop for the first time and to do it unintentionally -- it can be a really disorienting experience. >> i think there is a sense that it is ok, that person is going to find their way, and did they do not know where they are, you are potentially putting them in

a seriously dangerous situation. >> i always appreciate when the drivers are proactive in asking questions like, "where do you want to get off?" i appreciate when they help find a seat for me. i also appreciate when everything is working properly as far as the voice announcement system. they make sure that it is turned on, that it is loud enough for everyone to hear, not turned down so low that it helps no one. >> excuse me, driver, what stocks are we at? can you remind me when we get to venice and broadway? thanks. >> what we're talking about here is full participation and inclusion. i want to be able to lead a full life. the only way that i'm able to get from place to place this by

using a fully accessible public transit system like meany -- muni. >> the americans with disabilities act of 1990 is a wide-ranging federal civil- rights law that prohibits discrimination against persons with disabilities. title two of the ada addresses access to public services, including public transportation for persons with disabilities. it requires transit operators to call out stops at transfer points, major intersections, and major destinations, and to announce particular stocks requested by customers with disabilities. stop announcements are especially important for passengers who are blind or have low vision. these individuals cannot travel independently if they are not assured of getting off at their intended destination point.

i'm the president of friends of mclaren park. it is one of the oldest neighborhood community park groups in san francisco. i give a lot of tours through the park. during those tours, a lot of the folks in the group will think of the park as very scary. it has a lot of hills, there's a lot of dense groves. once you get towards the center of the park you really lose your orientation. you are very much in a remote area. there are a lot of trees that shield your view from the urban setting. you would simply see different groves that gives you a sense

of freedom, of being outdoors, not being burdened by the worries of city life. john mclaren had said that golden gate park was too far away. he proposed that we have a park in the south end of the city. the campaign slogan was, people need this open space. one of the things that had to open is there were a lot of people who did a homestead here, about 25 different families. their property had to be bought up. so it took from 1928 to 1957 to buy up all the parcels of land that ended up in this 317 acres. the park, as a general rule, is heavily used in the mornings and the evenings. one of the favorite places is up by the upper reservoir because dogs get to go swim. it's extremely popular. many fights in the city, as you know, about dogs in parks.

we have 317 acres and god knows there's plenty of room for both of us. man and his best friend. early in the morning people before they go to work will walk their dogs or go on a jog themselves with their dogs. joggers love the park, there's 7 miles of hiking trails and there's off trail paths that hikers can take. all the recreational areas are heavily used on weekends. we have the group picnic area which should accommodate 200 people, tennis courts are full. it also has 3 playground areas. the ampitheater was built in 1972. it was the home of the first blues festival. given the fact that jerry garcia used to play in this park, he was from this neighborhood, everybody knows his reputation. we thought what a great thing it would be to have an

ampitheater named after jerry garcia. that is a name that has panache. it brings people from all over the bay area to the ampitheater. the calls that come in, we'd like to do a concert at the jerry garcia ampitheater and we do everything we can to accommodate them and help them because it gets people into the park. people like a lot of color and that's what they call a park. other people don't. you have to try to reconcile all those different points of view. what should a park look like and what should it have? should it be manicured, should it be nice little cobblestones around all of the paths and like that. the biggest objective of course is getting people into the park to appreciate open space. whatever that's going to take to make them happy, to get them there, that's the main goal. if it takes a planter with flowers and stuff like that,

fine. you know, so what? people need to get away from that urban rush and noise and this is a perfect place to do it. feedback is always amazement. they don't believe that it's in san francisco. we have visitors who will say, i never knew this was here and i'm a native san franciscoan. they wonder how long it's been here. when i tell them next year we'll get to celebrate the 80th anniversary of the park,k, ♪ meet cathy, who's lived most verywhere, from zanzibar to barclay square. but patty's only seen the sight, a girl can see from brooklyn heights, what a crazy pair! ♪ cathy: oh my, patty. did you find all your files? patty: finally! who knew it would be this much work when richard and i decided to retire! cathy: well, what are you going to do first? patty: we're heading down to brooklyn heights and start in on that social security paperwork.