the other thing is it doesn't get tight and there is a void if somebody goes up there they put their foot straight through it. >> so, we have the roof coming up like this. and we are attached to the wall. the next thing is -- this is our exposed edge the edge we want to cover so water doesn't get behind that gap. we take -- we do often is use metal. if your wall that's coming down has stucco you want to put the metal in before the stucco and neither of these work. i can't -- but. you will be flashed over the top of the piece and a second piece that come from behind your stucco. now -- >> the stucco a bit. put the metal on and restucco on

top. when you are able to put 2 pieces in when you replace your roof you pop the bottom piece off, put the roof in and pop the piece back in it's nice in not having to tear out the whole wall out when you want to replace it. sometimes you can't do that. so, the other thing we see is what we call [inaudible] one where you don't have anything on top of it. it's exposed. it's nailed off and -- >> this would be across there like that. >> it typically has a kick at the top. we will nail that in place and put calking along the top of that. that sheds the wars coming down the wall. the calking and the maintenance item. you need to look at the calking joint every few years because the sun dries out the calking. it sheds the water and doesn't

allow the water to get under our system. that's the counter flashing we call surface mounting counter flashing. >> don't recommend using silicone. what holds up is [inaudible] calking. >> buy the good stuff. >> one of the important lessons i'm learning listening to this is you don't just do a roof away and expect it to last 20 or 30 years. like anything it requires maintenance. is this something that homeowners should attempt to maintain or have roofers to come. >> it depends on the roof they have. if they have a 12 and 12 pitch like this. i don't recommend a homeowner getting up there and cleaning his gutters. >> houses in the avenues i

don't see a problem throwing a ladder up and making sure yore drains are clean especially with the neighborhood with a lot of kids or near a school. the way the tennis balls get lost and even like on the wharf for us people throw tennis balls and beer bottles and soda cans and bottles they fit perfectly in a drain. when that drain floods it's going to flood everything under it. i'm a huge proponent of maintenance on your roof. if you put a roof on and the warrant says 10 years if you do maintenance tell last another 10-15 years. the penetrations in your roof need attention every couple of years. you should be up there. take a look at it. you will see cracks and the different things lithat.

>> i have clients that have me do maintenance on their roofs and we get 20 years on a 10 year roof. if you keep the water from getting under your roof and just keep it on stop you have a huge chance that roof will last for a long time. >> this is step flashing used for shingles and shakes. when you go up a wall. you have the pitch the roof come up these things sit on top and woven into the shingles you won't see these. you you will see a bit here with the counter flashing covers. when you are driving look at the shingle roofs where they meet other vertical surfaces and you will see this step flashing? what about penetrations.

>> the best way to deal with penetration is during original application. >> have done inspections, when you have -- figure the roofing paper is 3 feeted with. then you have a 2 inch pipe over the middle of that sheet. i have seen some make the cut and they have an 18 inch cut. traditionally to do it right the sheet should go, here's your jack, take your paper 6 inches past it. cut around to where the cut goes out. the next sheet in will with to the next penetration you have the area around the pipe and no extra cut. >> there's no way people of do this themselves. how do they know the roofing contractor is doing it right.

>> the issue i see is they don't use a roofing contractor to do it typically it's an electric person or someone installing a dish on your house. they will drill through your roof and stick the cable back up and take and usually it's just a gallon vanized flashing they take the glue and stick it down like that and they will plant top and say it's done. it's done for a year and a half. after that year and a half it's not an approved roofing practice. when you put a jack you need to roof the jack in. now when i look at the penetration i see the roof. i don't see the metal with nails around and stuck to the roof. you see that it's improperly

installed. we use lead flashings. the galvanized is not as good as the lead. the lead is heavier and a better product for the roof to tie into allows clamping and calk and a durable answer. the other penetration is usually boxes. the ac unit or swamp cooler or a bobbing penetration put on your roof. again there is a methodology of putting them incorrectly. a lot nail a 2 by 4 down and stick the unit on top. >> you have to put a wooden piece of wood lying on top of the roof to elevate it above 6

inches. >> they do that because of it's the proper -- gives the roofer an opportunity to roof that in so it will last. >> i 6 inch curve allows to put a cant stripper roll this on the curve, put a proper piece of cal flashing so it won't leak. >> i have a flat roof and it's working fine. i want to put on solar paneling. what do i do to make sure i don't get leaks and creepy crawlies? >> my recommend with solar panels you are adding a penetration to your roof. the critical thing, the penetration however they are anchored are done appropriately. if they have, what i like the best is what i see a round post they sit on because i can put a

jack on it and clamp and calk it and tie that into the existing roof. it's critical that the you have somebody that's doing the roofing that installs your solar panels correctly. if you let the solar company do it most likely they will not do at this time same as the roofing contractor. >> you hire a roofing contractor to put in solar paneling. >> the brackets >> the brackets they have to attach them to your roof. if they screw them down you will have leaks. that's not proper. you want a jack. >> they are normally installed with a long lag bolt drilled through the roof and into the roof. >> if you are lucky they might put calking around it. >> you get the roofer involved in the job? >> what i would do as soon as

you know which panels you will put on. you ask the manufacturer, do you have a roofing specification. tell me how they are going to be done. if you feel like you need to you can ask a roofer to look at it and say this is the specification and they say how tell need to be installed. >> how long should my roof last. >> reconditioned what does that mean? they gave it a new coat of asphalt. >> no they torched more of the membrane where they saw that needed it and put paint aluminum paint. >> it sounds like may nintenann

the city because of cloud cover we see roofs go a long time. you might get 20 years. if it's a significant cost to do the paneling you might want to have the roof looked at and ask what would it cost to put a new roof down. it might be the right time. if you are putting 15 penetrations on a 25 roof you may consider, now's the right time to do it. going back to the solar attachmen attachments. some of the contractors using pitch pans. pitch pans veteran around for years. pitch pan is a little box with an flange, nailed to the roof and stripped off the roof on the

edges. then, filled up more with asphalt and at the end it's pyramided to keep the water from standing on it. that seals the pipe. >> my preference is to use lead. my preference is to go to a tube or a square. in the of a pitch bracket. a pitch pocket is a maintenance item. you need to look at your pitch pockets every couple of years they tend to dry out and pull away from the edge of the metal. now you got an area for water to proprude under the roofing system. another way of helping a pitch pocket is to put a white cap seal or silver coating that gives it more uv protection. >> it's interesting to talk about the solar panels. the building department has a

process to issue permits for solar panels. you come and get a permit over the counter. we have done a lot of work to calculate the loading of the panels and how the racks will be constructed. we haven't looked much how they ever flashed and waterproofed. we are leaving that to the solar contractors to do. >> what i like now is the solar panels resemble roof shingles. it actually looks like a roof. there is no hassle how they will be bounded or anything like that. >> no. just a shingle. >> here's a flyer. roof shingles. in fact, there are roll material i seen in magazines where it's roll material that have built

into it for vertical and horizontal surfaces. it will be the site screens on buildings. >> in the next 5 years we will see ark lot of solar products and the price is dropping. >> while we are talking about solar photoable tech. let's talk about the green issues related to roofs. there were changes to the state law regarding roofing. you have been involved in that you want to talk about the reflectist issues. in october of 05 california adopted a new ordinance related to the surfacing of your roof. >> california energy codes. >> yep. >> it has become part of your calculations of your building or

residents. not held ark countable to it. it's commercial. the roof has to have reflecti reflectivity. the white roof is the only roof that meets those requirements. however you get it there it needs a white coating or white this is a rubber roof. it meets the requirements. california's leading the way. it's not happening in many of the other states. here we are held accountable to that. there are caveats to that. residential is not accountable to that. >> addition spaces only. >> for heated or cooled buildings? >> right. >> right. >> commercial is obviously. >> that's the big area it's happening. >> i think we will see it expand to residential in the

future i would expect? >> if it happens it will happen here. >> any other changes you are aware of >> changes to state law with the c 39 roofing contractor. if you hire a contractor by law required to be a licensed contractor. unless it's a general contractor doing the roof as an over all construction job doing 3 or more related trades. you want to be sure our contractor is a licensed c 32 contractor. we in the building department issue a roofing permit. we don't do inspections but we issue the permits because it allows us to verify the contractor's license, worker's compensation of course insurance, business license in the city and get the paperwork

straight. it ensures the homeowner that this is a legitimate person. whoever you get they need to get a permit, we are working for you. and we want to see a copy of your license. you can call the contactor's board and check otlicense. if the contractor gets a permit we will do that for you, we check the license board and make sure their license is current and in good standing. >> in our reports oftentimes when buildings have gotten a building permit, it's noted on the right column it was never approved or inspected or whatever. that happens in the vast majority of the cases, why is that? >> a 3 r report is required to be presented to the buyer of any residential building in san

francisco under this san francisco housing code. the 3 r report is a summary of all permits issued to that residential project we have a record of. if we did an inspection we say it's finaled or inspected or expired. we don't inspect roofs. we worked with the roofing. i don't know if you are part of this 15-20 years ago, we worked with the roofing industry to put a roofing permit process in place. we did inspections of roofs. the problem with that is you can't do it unless you are there the whole time watching every step of the way. we found having an inspector running up a ladder and signing it off is no assurance to the homeowner. we checked the legitimacy. as a result, what you end up is a 3 r report that says there is

a permit issued, which means we check all documents and there is no inspection made. it leaves the homeowner in the lunch a little bit. >> it's something you should look at. you see there is stuff out there it's good to know what projohn steinbecks they do and how did it effect the structure. >> i wanted to ask totally different question. in the case of flat roofs, i know you work with insulation tractors. in the flat roofs where the roofing joift is the same as the ceiling joi st. it's just a crawl space. how do you insulate that space to provide the insulation to the house and not run into moisture and ventilation and other

issues. >> i don't think i would attempt to insulation that. use the attic as a vent. >> you are talking about a space that's closed on the bottom and top? >> yeah. >> i'm not sure the answer. >> you have -- >> standing on the roof. >> you can vent. it depends on how many cavities are created. if you have a cavity every 3 or 4 feet -- if they are long you can put roof vents that allows that area to vent a whirly bird, and those tell you how much they will vent. so you can go and find what the speck says it will vent 180 square feet of space. install it on the roof through the deck and we would roof that vent in on top.

that will work. >> that would not insulate it. ventilate it. >> buildings are required to be ventilated. if you have a concealed space on the sealing and roof that has to be ventilated undering code. if not it will get moisture and dry rot. you often see vent on the top of the roof with mushroom caps or eve vents and strip vents or gable end vents. it has to be ventilated. there is a real problem if you put insulation, here avenue roof insulation that goes under the roofing, if you put that on top of the roof you still have the empty space. the insulation is not providing a benefit. >> it's providing you insulation benefit from the it's not taking care of that.

>> you can use the insulation to create a pitch. >> yeah, you can use this to build up a pitch on a roof to increase drainage. >> or this will fit. light weight. >> that's a tapered piece. tapered board to do that. >> people often do this attic insulation but not from the roof side they do it from the inside and attic access and if it's 18 inches you can get in there. less than that -- under unusual circumstances would you pull off the roof and get in there. >> too expensive. i was surprised in san francisco we don't do roof inspections anymore because i reroofed the place i used to live this was a couple of months ago.

i asked the contractor sign off a job card. he was able to obtain that signature. i don't know if he scribbled it out himself or -- >> that's my first question the second, i moved into a new place a month ago. they reroofed, 2 years ago it's a brand-new roof. in the bedroom i haven't fixed the damaged dry wall ceiling when they realized they had to reroof. but it seems like it might be a little cold or moist when i touch the damaged area. should i be worried. should i wait and see? >> let's the first question is whether the inspoktor will come

o out? when you call them they will stand on the street look up and see if they can tell. it's a final permit not to inspect the work. >> a little misleading. unclear what you are getting. all i can tell you for sure with your permit they are checking and the work looks like it's done. unless you are there all the time you have no way of knowing how they did it even then it's hard to tell. your second question. >> yeah. >> i would do 2 things. i would next rain can you get in the attic where that space is. >> no attic. >> when you do the repairs are you taking it down and refix it? >> the repairs are not bad enough to warrant doing any. >> i recommend you make them

bad enough if it's something you are concerned there is moisture getting to that part of the ceiling before you repaint and do all that you may want to put a hole there and get at the next rain and see if there is moisture coming down unless there is another way to get in that void to see it. you could have someone look from top. being cold not a problem. if it's moist that's telling me there is a leak. >> access to a moisture detector. ? a tool. >> yeah. it will give you a reading of moisture. if the meter goes, whoof, you have a problem. >> take one of my cards, give me a ring use one of the city moisture meters. it has 2 probes to stick in there. i was going to ask the way to handle dutch guterce.

>> dutch gutters. in san francisco we have a particular problem. houses are all next to each other you can't drain our house to the side because there is somebody's house there. you drain the water toward it and you catch the water. you put a board on the edge and the water hits to the front and the back. it's a common situation here. >> what i have seen in the past with the dutch gutters they have a really nice shingle roof and they come if in with the cap sheet 90 pound organic. which is not strong at all. it doesn't take much to break it a life of 10 years. these days with the new materials that have come out. i have samples.

if you notice this is conventional asphalt here. it's really hard. it will crack when it's cold it will break in and a half. this here is asphalt that's treated with styrin and changes the characteristics. now instead of being hard and can brittle tell go back to shape. the material is used in a dutch gutter, there's no way you put your foot through it. you can kick it and hit it with a hammer and it's sturdier than what's in your dutch gutters. somebody having their house ree roofed they should ask for that. >> yeah rather than the conventional. >> getting back to green buildings for a second.

we are seeing a few green roofs. living roofs. have you worked on those green roofs? >> no, i haven't had the opportunity there is one going up in golden gate park. >> the academy of science. >> we put a number of them in. it's a -- at the basis there is a modified roof. you will have an s bs roof. there is the waterproofing below. you have a waterproof roof and you build something on top. >> sealed. i should have brought one. it has 6 layers to it. you have -- i have to think. bra drainage maps and fabric and root barrier it builds up and up and you have sawed. on 380 we do maintenance on

that. >> an issue that come up in san francisco about fire. if you look down on the city, looking photographs areaial photographs the city is comprised of 10 or 20 percent of roofs. and that's a lot of area. that's flammable material one would think. the building code and fire code try to limit the fire rescientistanceness of requirements of roofs. do you address that in your work? >> yeah especially working for the port it's roofs are class a. >> building code says class a and b. yours are all class a. there is a class c roof. >> an example of a class c is