difficult for a student going to a state college with a good summer job and working for the school year, maybe they can pay for their tuition and housing if it is already providedan francisco state, otherwise they will be needy, because by definition, you are a student. you aren't making a lot of money. i think we can micro manage it too much by looking at income levels. it's up to doing these things. and i can remember, you know, the dental school is a good example because i can remember being a dental student in the late 1960's and we were scrambling and we had the requirement of having a lab because we had to do our dental technique all weekend long and we had to find a garage to convert into a lab. the dental school was able to buy 25 years ago a building that was going to close and converted

it to student housing and it includes a lab and is walking distance from the dental school. so that is a successful story for them but they had the wherewithal to do it and their student body is small. those are the kind of things we want to encourage for sure. so i guess -- i don't know if we could -- i don't know if commissioner would allow us -- vice-president olague: i think the single occupies si stuff and i think it's too complicated. i would be unwilling to remove that -- yeah. >> obviously it's a policy call that the commission can make. however, the department feels strongly that existing housing needs to be protected, particularly like the

commissioner was saying, s.r.o.'s and there are pieces of legislation that could take care of that. the department feels that we need to encourage a diverse range of housing. and i understand what were mentioning already there are maybe some instances where an occasional building may be converted but the department felt that was too rare an instance and encourage new housing rather than converting existing units. commissioner antonini: there is a prohibition on all existing housing units? >> all housing units. commissioner antonini: ok. let's try to pull out this tourist hotel. i think that's not a housing unit. i would say perhaps we could modify it. vice-president olague: we saw some other things. i mean, i don't want to encourage that we start

converting tourist hotel uses, because i think sometimes it's not really appropriate to a neighborhood -- i don't know. it got into a complicated conversation. it's not the type of thing i want to encourage. even the way they are structured may not be appropriate for students to live in in many ways. commissioner antonini: what do we do when we convert tourist hotel rooms to nonstudent housing? >> ann marie rogers worked on that legislation. i would like her to answer if she can. >> the large tourist hotels that are over 100 years are regulated by the administrative code and it's by lottery, but a lottery will not be allowed until the city produces 600 new rooms of

these large tourist hotels. we aren't going to see anybody being able to convert a large tourist hotel into housing in the near term unless we build at least 600 units. commissioner antonini: that's my only problem, i don't know if i can be supportive. i really like the measure, but we have to look at -- particularly the other uses, such as smallest tourist hotels, smallest motels that are tourist, not residential. and i can live with the prohibition of conversion of existing housing units, but allowing those can do many good things, because the ones that are converted are the ones that are failures and they aren't getting the tourists and doing other things that are often not legal, and i think it would be a good method to do it. >> maybe it wasn't clear, but tourist hotels that are under 100 units, those are not

regulated and those would be allowed to be converted, even with this ordinance and recommended modificationses, you can convert those with less than 100 rooms. commissioner antonini: not the largest ones? >> due to the administrative controls that are in place and also with our modifications. commissioner antonini: so as written, there is a modification in the language of this now with that large hotel. you started talking about that? >> our modification that we are recommendings to the commission that are large hotels be converted. if the commission agrees -- >> i disagree. commissioner antonini: i love the whole thing but that might be an important issue for me so i don't know if i could go with the rest of it but it will go to the board and go with it. the other thing i think with the

other uses, which was alluded to being a little bit vague and i think we have to sort of encourage. that would mean any time that you have a commercial or a retail or a garage perhaps -- and let's assume these are in areas where housing is permitted as you said, then those would all have to have conditional use. >> that's right. the idea in this recommendation is to encourage the production of new housing and then for other conversions, it would be possible, but you would be able to determine in your discretion if it was appropriate or not in the conditional use. commissioner antonini: or you could actually be silent on existing housing and that might make it simpler. thank you. president miguel: commissioner moore? commissioner moore: i'm in strong support of the legislation and i would like to ask for clarification whether or not con -- retirement homes and

housing for the elderly are protected from that or is that too specific? >> if it's group housing, then they would be protected. if it was part of a hospital use, it would be a medical institution. commissioner moore: the other thing i would like to ask and if ms. sullivan could answer that, we had issues with understanding what i.m.p.'s need to be. when you say the i.m.p. trigger, there are a large number of i.m.p.'s particularly nonprofit organizations of the city have made some efforts to show and disclose the institutional master plan. however, we won't mention the name, has greatly failed to even understand the basic requirements and even among ourselves and sometimes there is a some degree of ambiguity of what is required. i hope we can find a way before

we fully deal with this legislation that we have the i.m.p. definition very clearly defined, including reflecting on this particular chapter, institutions, what the students mostly do. we heard that have 30% on campus, et cetera. and i was real interested in following the comment of the witness mentioning nonprofits, which would need support. and then mr. paul coming and making a case -- i won't repeat, she was very eloquent and i find myself between those two positions and i was wonder if the supervisor had given that particular thought because i don't see it in this current writing. >> the i.m.p. process is outlined fairly clearly in the

code and was amended to be clearer four years ago. the process is triggered if you are a post-secondary educational institution or medical institution. those two types of uses must file an i.m.p., profit or nonprofit. if you are triggered to do that, those are the base triggers for an i.m.p. that has to be developed and come to this commission for approval and you close the comment period on it. so all of those would be triggered. commissioner moore: thank you for clarifying that. the second part of my question, the nonprofit versus for-profits and how do we look at that? whether there was any thought of this. you could listen to both arguments, but we have had so many heartbreaks here that we are probably reluctant to

support the for-profit groups. president miguel: one more time. >> i'm not familiar with the master plan. maybe someone could help me out. president miguel: the commissioner is asking whether it would apply to both profit and nonprofit. i.m.p.'s include both. >> i don't think there is a distinction in my mind. there isn't between profit and nonprofit institutions. >> i will say, commissioner, the one thing that this does that perhaps can address the institution we have been talking about is that we are preventing -- this would absolutely outright the prevention to student housing. that's one of the concerns you have had about the academy.

this would prevent that from happening, totally prohibit that. commissioner moore: except to the building part where i think the advantages of supporting student housing in the form that is proposed here, we would have people double dipping on the advantages of doing so. >> no, i don't -- >> you might want to clarify. >> would you clarify your earlier comment. >> i think you are thinking about two separate comments. it should apply to for-profits given the incentive. my fear is in bad economic tiles, we may not have the staff to police them. what i was arguing for was the right of private action which is in the hotel conversion ordinance that would in those tough times -- and you can

define it narrowly. schools don't have to worry about it. you can define for maybe four, five, six organizations, but there are ones that have a real concern about this issue. if someone submits reports, they could go to the city and ask for it. and if there aren't any students, they could make it clear and bring it to the city's attention. that is a piece that would prevent them to cheating. vice-president olague: i have my name up. we should amend it. >> this is a good incentive to not letting them convert any more or even the ones they have so that it pushes them to build dorms and to give up this idea that they can just buy up the city. commissioner sugaya: i'm afraid and i'm not a housing expert or

housing developer, but has consideration been given to bonuses and that kind of thing where there would be real insebttives for housing of this type to be -- incentives for housing of this type to be built. >> he suggests relying on the density limitations that exist in the zoning district and you wouldn't get something out of scale. what we have in areas we are encouraging housing and removed the density limits. so that would be further to encourage this new development in the areas that we have rezoned. commissioner sugaya: you might want to think about extending that concept where we have said the building envelope is such and such and would meet the current zoning standards so to speak, but then allow in the other areas that we are talking about specifically for student housing to maybe allow this

other way of calculating what could go inside that envelope, if i'm making myself clear here, so that instead of looking at it as 15 units that are allowed, we would say here's the building and you could stuff 25 in there, you know, that would be ok. and i don't know if the standard zoning rules apply or also applying parking regulations. so can we ease up on that, too? >> if you want to direct staff to ease up on the parking regulations, i think there are some districts where that would be disruptive to. i think it would be good to keep in mind the density limitations and not remove them. commissioner sugaya: typically perhaps and perhaps i'm thinking too much dorm, and i don't want to make substandard housing for students, but perhaps they could

get away with less space, let's say, than normal and then -- >> i think you are referring to, there is one provision in the planning code that was recently amended, article two, the density bonus specific to senior housing and so it does allow obviously the envelope. the height has to stay the same. but they are able to maximize a tighter density. so we would want to continue to discuss it with the zoning administrator. but i think that's what you are referring to. commissioner sugaya: i think i am. if it's just the inclusion of the housing requirement, that that isn't going to be enough of an incentive like a private developer, like the portland case i have just been reading, apparently portland is teamed with a private developer out of texas to build housing and so there is a partnership there.

and somehow that partnership probably in san francisco versus portland may need some kind of incentive more than just removal of inclusionary. that's the direction i'm taking and encourage the staff and the supervisor to look at ways that we can provide more incentives. president miguel: commissioner olague. vice-president olague: i want to include the right to private action, the comments said before. i know he couldn't look into it and he can explain it. is that right? did i get that right -- in the event that we can't monitor. yeah. ok. and then, i think in the spirit of smart growth, which is

something of encouraging -- that's why i was -- you know asked the staff to, you know, to encourage near transit corridors, but along those lines, to explore the relaxation of parking requirmentse is critical and many students don't own cars, they ride their bike. we should look atlanta making sure there are student bike spaces and car share -- i don't know -- but maybe to look at these alternatives to owning cars -- president miguel: commissioner? >> i want to make it clear my opposition is because it does too much. this should be bifurcated. what the measure should do is, it should encourage the new

construction and exempt that from affordable housing with recapture if it becomes converted away from student housing and of course, define that it has to be a certain percentage of students living in there and it should be silent on this whole conversion issue because that's a totally different subject that has to be addressed by separate legislation, because it is complicated and i'm a little -- we always demonize students as those not being deserving of housing as other people only because they are going to be in san francisco as students for a certain period of time, they have every right to housing as much as everybody else and they should be able to take advantage of the rent-controlled housing like other people do. i'm not concerned that they are here and someone else isn't who may be a lifetime resident and they may be lifetime residents

but they bumping four, five students together. i'm in favor of building new student housing and i think we do have to address at a different time the conversion issue of existing housing. but right now, i don't see a difference between housing where students live and housing where other people live because they have just as much right to it as anybody else. president miguel: commissioner olague. vice-president olague: we need to encourage the building or increasing the supply of student housing but not at the expense of the residents who currently live here. and i think residents -- current residents who live in lower-income housing have been under threat of eviction and displacement due to the pressures on the housing market. i don't want to encourage legislation that would increase those pressures on existing

residents or those trying to remain in the city. >> i was continuing to read this example and from what the commissioner said, there might also want to look at the ancillary use possibilities like a classroom that may not strictly be allowable in the zone within which this might be built and maybe have some flexibility along those lines. i don't know what those uses would be, but they are mentioning classrooms and that kind of thing here, so -- >> another example actually, new orleans, institutions have grouped together and with private developers built student housing. there is at least two examples of them out there.

having as i said at the very beginning, i'm very pleased to see this stage. i appreciate the department's comments and amendments on it. i think they do work. i think it will encourage new student housing and i think that's the goal we should be after. >> motion is on the floor with approval with staff recommendations and the additional modifications to include the right to private action, that the housing be on or near public transit and relax the parking requirement. on that motion -- commissioner antonini: no commissioner moore:a aye, aye.

motion passes 4-1 with commissioner antonini voting no. we will take a break. i thank commissioner dufty. he had to leave and pick up his daughter and we wanted to accommodate his time.