>> one thing to remember is that briefing is not mandatory, so the party 7 option to not submit any briefing and choose to make their arguments solely to the board. through oral presentation. something that supposed to be done. >> we have the opening brief or if they decide to hear someone reading their opening papers. i am just kidding. i would be inclined to extend the time for rebuttal. this is pretty short, especially on complicated cases. >> we to extend this by asking questions. >> you can't always do that. if you can extend by simply

saying that you -- >> ok. >> do you think that seven minutes will be too long. >> i might have a tangential issue. sometimes the way that we wind up? it is that certain people get much more time than others and that is not necessarily fair. maybe those are necessary.

they did a lot of questions and therefore a lot more time. >> if i was an advocate, i would want that cut down. >> can we move on from that? i was wandering what they heard on the site visit. i remember going on the visit for them. we did was to take measurements.

then the appellant and he had to hear those too late. he was not able to be prepared with his own expert. it seems like there is a trust issue. can you talk about that. >> some of those had bad

results. >> they had a lovely funeral the next day. they have always respected the wishes of the property owners. [inaudible] as compared to the old days when it was hard to get a photo. >> i still think that they are useful and important. i remember another situation where i did a site visit for the building. i wanted to see this from the appellate property because i had

the sense that this was about a few and not about the building. i was told by the departments, neither of the two people here, that it was irrelevant and i was not permitted and i was a new enough commissioner to see whatever i wanted to see. >> one of the points is to articulate that if the commissioner does go on a site visit, their responsibility is to come back and report on what they saw and learned which is before the proceedings began so that the parties have an opportunity to rebut. if they had to do with measurements that was informative, the put that on the record and during the hearing, the party that objected to raise their concerns. >> i've done several site since.

they are used to doing this because they have a planning commissioner and they are allowed to. >> do you want to change something? >> i think i was addressing the comments about the site visit. >> [inaudible] >> i cannot think of any way to accommodate this. >> there is the outstanding

issue of the reply brief and a couple of other revisions that you have agreed to. i have an appellate practice, that is all idea, especially now. the appellant brief, the reply brief, that is it. >> we should try not to be as legal as not.

>> after the discussion, we need it in motion. >> the new rules will be effective tomorrow but a briefing schedule wouldn't pry going forward. it appeals said it -- it appears that these are already in the pile. >> so moved.

>> that was my motion. >> [inaudible] on the hearing pending further information by the city. >> we can amend our rules at any time. >> there was a key changes to the draft and i will refer to this as the draft and tel.

>> i will vote no but i don't want to vote no because so much work went into these. >> please call the roll. >> on the motion is to adopt the proposed rules with those two changes and the effective date is december 16th but this will keep the old briefing schedule. >> aye.

>> aye. >> do you need to say the date of the proposal? this is dated 12-15. >> thank you. the vote is 4-1. >> thank you for your comments. with that, i think we are returned -- adjourned.

>> i have been a cable car grip for 21 years. i am a third generation.

my grand farther and my dad worked over in green division for 27. i guess you could say it's blood. >> come on in. have a seat. hold on. i like it because i am standing up. i am outside without a roof over my head and i see all kinds of people. >> you catch up to people you know from the past. you know. went to school with. people that you work with at other jobs. military or something. kind of weird. it's a small word, you be. like i said, what do people do when they come to san francisco? they ride a cable car. >> california line starts in the financial district.

people are coming down knobbhill. the cable car picks people up. takes them to work. >> there still is no other device to conquer these hills better than a cable car. nobody wanted to live up here because you had to climb up here. with the invention of the cable car, these hills became accessible. he watched horses be dragged to death. cable cars were invent in san francisco to solve the problem with it's unique, vertically challenged terrain. we are still using cars a

century old >> the old cable car is the most unique thing, it's still going. it was a good design by then and is still now. if we don't do something now. it's going to be worse later. >> the cable cars are built the same as they were in the late 1800's. we use a modern machinery. we haven't changed a thing. it's just how we get there. >> it's a time consuming job. we go for the quality rather than the production. we take pride in our work and it shows in the end product. >> the california line is mostly locals. the commuters in the morning, i see a lot of the same people.

we don't have as tourists. we are coming up to street to chinatown. since 1957, we are the only city in the world that runs cable cars. these cars right here are part of national parks system. in the early 1960's, they became the first roles monument. the way city spread changed with the invention of the cable

car. >> people know in san francisco, first thing they think about is, let's go