question about the records management. is that kind of like a self-pay system? i have heard some contractors complain about the need to make too many copies. is that because of the requirement that we have to keep a lot of different copies on file? tofile? >> what usually comes in is about to $1,000, what goes out is usually about $200,000. the cost would go up. right now, we are now proposing an increase in actual fee. that would be something that we could look at in terms of the

over all the study that we could look at next year. commissioner clinch: i do not know if you are anticipating any uptick because of the america's cup? >> i can answer that. the america's cup takes place on our property -- port property. if they require our services, we will be there for inspection services. we cannot estimate right now if they are going to need our services, but we will be there. if they do, we will adjust the budget accordingly. >> we have built into the budget $2,500 every year as needed, revenue from them, for as needed services, so we have

some capacity already built in there. >> given that the america's cup has to be on track, it would be safe to assume that there would be services practically guaranteed that dbi will have to perform and conduct for the america's cup. it would have to be a hedge that this is something that could at least be proposed, at least on a more practical scale and level. >> what we wanted to do was look at the trend that we have right now and project it forward. there may be some!nwd blips from that, but from all the discussions we have had, with the people who are dealing with the america's cup, it is not

significant to increase what we are building the budget on. if it becomes, in the next couple of months, that we think it is going to be more, we can adjust with the mayor's office to adjust the estimates. we have had to do that in the past. >> just so the commissioners know, we have built in the extra temporary salary if we need to bring on temporary people. projects such as the america's cup or something else may happen that we do not know about, so we have some contingency funds in the temporary salary line. but we then want to bring in permanent people for a two-year or three-year project. that is the way we are addressing the blips in the

mou's. >> one of the things that we have done this last year, in regards to the blips, we had taken the joint powers agreement for the transbay terminal and we divided it up neatly in five years -- equally by five years. there is always a delay in construction, or for instance, we build for the current year, 2.7 but we are projecting to get in 1.3. next year, we assume 2.7. so there is capacity as that revenue comes in, capacity, as you mentioned, to provide those

levels of service to get things done in a timely basis. commissioner clinch: on the permit tracking system, is there anything we need to look at, given their refreshed, the dominant category will be equipped and that needs to be the end of its shelf life. >> if we were not doing the permit tracking system, we would still need to do the refresh. we also need to make sure that what we think is needed for the tracking system, what ever we are investing in the refresh is consistent with what we need, but we are not increasing the number of servers right now to deal with the permit tracking

system because, if we go for a different option and do not have all the servers with the city, with some other entity with whom it is hosted, we would have wasted our money. so the answer is, they are not related, they are independent of each other. however, we want to be cognizant that what we're doing needs to be consistent so we are not starting over again. >> so the commissioners know, when we went out to bid two years ago with the permit tracking system, the equipment that we had was inconsistent with what we would need for a new system. we had built in extra money into the money that we sent to the

board of supervisors for about $1.5 million to buy new servers at that time because we thought we would need them for the server refreshed hit. now the server refresh is here and the same service we are using for our current system we anticipate to use for the tracking system with the additional position -- with the addition of a few servers. we are compatible now. our servers are so old right now they would not be consistent, we could not use them with the new permit tracking system. >> my question would be, functionality aside, if they are going to be incompatible -- if compatibility is the target goal, would it not be on technical accounting? we have so much volume and capacity, does it make sense to have them built in capacity in

the servers? >> we are going to run the two systems together parallel for a while. we will need a new system to take the place when we take our old system down. those servers we are taking from the old system will be used for the record management's system. so we are intending to use every piece of equipment we have with the idea of going for that they will be compatible with any kind of technology that we are going forward with. so the server refresh is just to get our existing servers, record management servers, permit tracking servers that we have right now up to current technology levels that will be able to meet the technology that we are requesting to do both from the permit tracking system and records management system. so they will be compatible but they will not be -- they will

be running in parallel for the two-year implementation stage. so we will need some additional servers running separately from the ones that are running our current system. >> has that been consistent with where the new system will be brought in, consistent with what had originally been set up? >> if i understand your question, one of the things that we are requiring from the bidders of the permit tracking system, there was to know -- they want to know where software and hardware is needed for their proposal. those are in march, march 2. we will have an idea at that

point in time exactly what we are looking at and what people will propose. kid is probably already an idea of what it is people will need because there are so many things in the market that we know. the refreshed, when we buy the new servers, they need to be compatible with anything we are going to need to buy for the permit tracking system. the only day we are not doing is we are not buying more computers than we need for the servers than we need now. we are not stacking up and buying extra inventory because we know in two years we are going to have the permit

tracking system on line. but we are making sure that what we have can be used, would be compatible with what ever we buy, whatever we need for the permit tracking system. i am not sure if i am asked -- answering your question. >> well, we need a system that is going to meet our immediate needs, as well as what is coming in the future. in light of that, but we will need all sell -- what we will need also, we have a system that can accommodate not only our current needs, but on the permit tracking side, both will grow exponentially with what is currently being proposed under cost with rfp. >> the rfp is only the professional services for the

contract, for the system. it does not include the hardware. what hardware we would buy would be similar to the ones that we are buying for the server refresh. we would not look at their relationship -- we would make sure to make sure that they match up. i do not want us to spend more money than we need for existing needs, but thinking about the future, two years from now, we do not know what we need. so we need to design the refresh, look at what kinds --

we are going to do with the various vendors. they are going to suggest what we need for this refresh and how we would design the server room. we know that we need more room for additional servers. we will know at that time what kinds of things, the range of things that we would need for the off-the-shelf system, and we would put that together to make sure that we are consistent and moving along, and building -- knowing then current and future needs. >> if the permit tracking system is to be awarded this year, within that installation time period, will that be inclusive also of the training necessary for what will have to be this new system for staff to use?

and is that in the budget? >> the training is in the budget. the permit tracking system, rfp included a requirement for two types of training. one is a system administrator, the technical-type of training, and one for the user. we are going to end up having, i am sure, specialized training by people who become that experts in the department. so the answer is yes, there is training involved. it is involved in the budget for the tracking system. we have money in the current operating budget for training to the extent that we use some of it for -- related to the off-

the-shelf system. it is in there. >commissioner murphy: commissioner walker? commissioner walker: i missed it if you explained it, but what was the 24% decrease in interest reflect? >> this is the deal. we know we have been building the budget with a higher interest-rate. based on the question that have come out here, we decided that we would ratchet it down foto where we have been for the last six years so we are not overly optimistic in the interim.

i think you would be a millionaire if you knew what the interest rate would be. we just wanted to make it more realistic. commissioner walker: and what is that interest on? >> various fund balances that we have, a deferred fund credit, operating balance, our temporary fund. even our projects. the money that we've put away in the project fund that we take out of our operating funds, we receive interest on those funds. commissioner walker: do we determine where that is put? is that a city decision? >> it comes to the department. commissioner walker: i understand that, but who makes

the decision on where we put that money? we have several billion dollars, our fund for 54 days, the computer, the buildup. do we decide where that goes? no. does the comptroller's office decide how to invest the funds? >> are you talking about how he would spend down? invest? commissioner walker: yes, i am just curious. this is our fund. it is in a pot controlled by the comptroller. >> there would be some restrictions on funding. for instance, the operating fund is pretty clear.

if there is any money in the repair and demolition, ne earned interest has to go back to prepare and demolition. just like you cannot spend it for something that is not within the purview of the admin code. you cannot take the interest and put it into a different fund. it is restricted. commissioner walker: but we do not know where that goes to collect interest? we do not know how the funds are invested to gain the interest -- that is what the commissioner is asking. in other words, which bank account code to which bank. >> there is a really good section in the treasury's tax office that does that. commissioner walker: do we get paid for collecting all of the

fees that we are collecting on behalf of other agencies? >> yes, we have work orders for the other agencies and we do charge them. there will be an increase in the line item budget. we had increased our charges to other departments by a small amount. commissioner walker: perfect. commissioner murphy:=lgp one lat question. we have x-amount of dollars. there is nothing controlling the supervisor to take account of that out of our fund? >> there is something preventing them from doing it. it would have to have a nexus with what the money was paid for in the first place. they can not willy-nilly take the money and use it for cars, something that does not have a benefit for for an enterprise f.

they can find something related to what we do in another department and use that money for that and free up that money. but it has to be something related. we fought tooth and nail for that not to happen. the last two years, it has not happened. we were very adamant with the budget director and analyst that it is not appropriate. we do not have the capacity for them to do that. we do not have money sitting around for them -- commissioner murphy: that is adequate. let me follow up on that a little bit. can we create funds, let's say,

for staff training if that would ensure that the general fund would not get their hands on it? is that too -- >> that has some pros and cons. commissioner murphy: you do not need to answer right now, but i would like you to address that at our next meeting. surry me a a little bit that we do not have enough money for training staff. we seem to nickel and dime all of the other stuff -- i was pretty amusing listening to the check cashing

conversation. i cannot believe that we are talking about it -- probably important -- but any corporation would have a record of people, when their checks are bouncing, they would say, credit card only. that would eliminate it. >> the credit card is not a good option. cashier's check only. it is an interesting thing. some people are doing it because they can float it, getting something done, but we run into a lot of people who have two different accounts for their construction, they took out of one account, when it should have been out of another --

>commissioner murphy: do we have a list of people that do this, a list of people that we do not accept checks from? >> we flag the permit and a person in the computer, so until the check is cleared, they cannot take out any more permits, no more permits issued on the property. we do it several ways on the computer. we do not have a list, per say. they cannot take out any more permits. they are flagged in our system. we take care of it as much as we can, but you have to realize a lot of these are onetime things. these are not repeat offenders. the case in point she was talking about, -- she spent four hours on it, i spent two hours

myself. a property owner came in and decided they wanted to remodel something, walked out, got it remodeled in three days, and bounced a check on us. credit cards are harder to chase then bounced checks with the credit card company because they have up to 30 days to decline a credit card charge. so it is now 30 days later and we are trying to get the credit card charge and it is almost impossible. )8órcommissioner clinch: do we then charge extra related to -- >> that is up to the bank. if the treasurer tax collector has to do work there, we have set up some charges -- we would only get 75% of the money that

was tied up. commissioner clinch: for bouncing a check with a bang, as an administrative fee, you pay a significant price. would we not perform a similar parallel? we are absorbent that cost through staff time. you spend of which you are ours, vivian had spent two -- four hours, vivan had spent two. >> i always thought $50 for the bad checks went back into the

fund but it goes to the comptroller's office. it is something to look into. president murphy, the travel and training went up over $50,000 and it is budgeted at $250,000. commissioner murphy: i do not understand -- > >> the budget has gone up, now at a quarter million dollars. we had done a lot of code training. we have someone doing plumbing training.

commissioner murphy: so you send staff to other cities for training? >> yes, and we also need to train our staff on city-mandated training for our supervisors. to the extent we can free them up from doing their ongoing responsibilities, we are trying to get them trained. commissioner murphy: i listened to 10 minutes of servers, hard drives, all that sort of stuff. i know nothing about computers but if i made servers and hard drives, i bring in someone to my office who knows exactly what they need, they run with it, implement it.

it worries me a little bit that this new system we are bringing in -- is it really what we want? do we have experts telling us that this is what we want? >> yes. part of the million dollars is to have somebody come in to work with us in terms of making sure that what we are ordering is what we need. commissioner murphy: so we have people from the outside telling us what we need. do the stakeholders have any say in this? >> these are servers for behind- the-scenes operations of data management. the public that uses the permit tracking system does not see the server behind the scenes that runs the software. software and hardware are two different things. commissioner murphy:asli i

understand that. it just seems, listening to all of this -- it is like the wwii department. any further questions? >> thank you. >> is there any public comment on item 4? >> good morning, commissioners. coalition for responsible growth. thank you for having this particular item on the agenda. i think it is important for many reasons. probably unfortunate that we do not go into the permit tracking system. the issues that come up