>> no. the -- the site plan that you're referring to on page a-1. commissioner sugaya: yeah. >> indicates it is a through lot. it goes all the way through to the street. >> but the shaded part only ends halfway into the -- >> all the way to telegraph place. >> just not labeled on the north, on the top. it should be like -- >> okay. are there any, since we're scanneding the building. there's no backyard. or anything in this case. is there any kind of variance issue here? >> no? >> no open space requirements. >> they're not adding a unit. if they were adding that would be the case. but this is just expansion of an existing building.

commissioner sugaya: but it was indicated that -- i guess from the residential design guideline, don't we usually talk about 15 feet in terms of -- of the foundation or expansion? specifically it is not a fixed point. >> ilike to argue that the staff. the staff has already indicated that this -- this is a historic resource and the reports that we have. so i think from that standpoint, i believe that you could see the upper floor at 10 feet. i think we -- i think the -- the -- the mockups -- that d.r. requester gave as -- as -- at least from his perspective illustrates that might be the case. i'm not saying that you know -- staff indicated however that it might be a little visible. i like clarification on that before -- before -- before we --

i don't know what we're going to do. i don't know what we're going to do yet. but i like to have it not be visible, especially since this is a historic resource. to have it pushed back if necessary to at least -- i don't know, we could start at 15 feet if that's adequate to handle -- to handle what i think would be an impact on the historic resource, that would be preferable. the glass railings. we talked aud nauseam and maybe it would be better not to have them. then a couple of other things -- on the drawing on a-4, there's a note that says that the stucco above the garage door is going to be replaced with granite. i don't think that should be the case. it looks like the stucco above the garage door is original. if anything were to happen, they should just leave it alone and repair it. replace it in kind.

then lastly, the windows i think are totally out of character to the architecture itself. if you look at the -- the existing elevation they're totally different kind of window. i think if windows are going to be replaced, they also should be replaced in kind. >> commissioner antonini. commissioner antonini: i'm confused. i'm looking at a-2 and a-4. i don't know if we should put those on the overhead but it looks like, i'm looking at the front elevation on a-2. and i soum there's a setback -- i assume there's a set back and now we're coming forward with the building? it doesn't show the setback on there. exactly. it is okay. we're looking -- we're looking further this and now of course we're coming forward as you could see in these -- in these plans. so, that is the first thing that

was a little confusing. you look at that. the other thing was -- the d.r. requester said it was going to be all glass. it looks like the replacement structure seems to have -- you know, looks like french windows. four in a row. i'm for the sure what the surface is. it. i guess it is a stucco surface around it. it looks like it tends to match the rest of the building as much as i can tell. your -- then i guess basically what we're looking at, where they show the views for light and air, we're looking at the front of the building or the rear of the building. i'm gettinging confused with these. the d.r. requester had -- that's the rear. okay. so that's -- that's going back in that direction too. i mean that -- that would seem to be the only impact. i don't see too much of an impact on the front of the

building, it could be argued there's some impact on the back. and -- based upon the positioning of the -- of the building going back there. but -- i'll see what the other commissioners have to say on this. >> sure. >> i mean these -- the addition as it exists today is toward the rear of the building. what they're doing, they're moving closer toward greenwich street. >> okay. >> commissioner moore? >> i would -- i would actually -- i would very much follow commissioner sugaya -- really thoughtful taking apart the pieces. i would also agree similar to many other recent cases that the minimum setback, the minimum setback would be 15 feet plus. because it really shouldn't be -- leaving the demonstration as is, it will be -- a recall on the building with the total

presentation is more french country than anything else. what i like to ask the architect. can you come up to the podium please. do you practice in san francisco? >> yes. >> the difficult thing for us is a comment -- we like to see the existing conditions and the proposed building. the vertical, and going back and forth, and the minor comments for you. commissioner moore: i'm concerned for fire code and the commissioner moore: i'm concerned for fire code and the side roof privacy that this deck really should be pulled back from tipping on -- sitting on the property line. 6400 for roof deck. you got to have a large number of people and doing a structural thing. it interferes with the neighbors

to an extent that there would be more people on the deck than you should have. i also expect and that's typically down throughout the roof deck, that any roof deck, for example the air conditioning should be tucked into -- into the railing of the -- i'm looking at a-2. it should be integrated into the rooftop, into the roof deck. in a way that it sits within the -- within the enclosed area. so that it does not create an extra protrusion on the roof or clutter. it is real simple. and i can speak for my own roof. i live a couple of hills over and -- by bringing it inside your railing &, it becomes an -- railing area, it becomes an object that deals with the okay paid part of the roof but it leaves the neighbor unencumbered. by pulling back into the rooftop

&, you're bringing it away from bedroom rooms, et cetera. because most of the people in that area -- single pained windows. even if they have their windows closed, which most of us don't doe, because we don't use air conditioning in san francisco, we keep the windows open, that's part of the climate. i live in -- in -- in three-story wood structure -- three-story wood structure over the basement and some of my coresidents use the washing machine. you think that would be all fine. it would -- it would be that night i hear the washing machine three noors away. these are all quiet washing machines and modern ones. i'm trying to say, in a quiet neighborhood is really impact. the further you pull it away from the perimeter, visually as well as acousticly into your

roof deck, and enclosed areas, the better it would be. i would encourage the commissioners to pull the roof deck back. this is live in some of our homes. 600 square feet. that's a home. that's a studio apartment. so i don't see that, i think that we need to really bring that back and still leave it a nice space and have to get away from the impact on the neighboring properties. who appreciate parties but they don't want to be impacted. falling back, sticking with the windows, comment on garage. all of that is acceptable. i still think the building is big for me for a single family. i want to hear what the other commissioners have to say. commissioner fong? commissioner fong: as far as the roof deck, there's no real yard. correct? so, to some degrees degree that's the outdoor space.

looking at the photos, there's roof decks and phenomenal views. i understand the reason for that. >> i'm curious where we end up. i'm in favor of potentially moving back a bit. and preserving the roof deck. >> commissioner antonini. >> i was looking at the -- commissioner antonini: i was looking at the setback, it was a 10-foot setback for the third floor. i don't know -- what is the setback for the d.r. requesters. how far back is their third floor? do we know that? >> the d.r. requester, can we tell you how far back you are from the second floor on your third floor? >> 35, 40 feet. >> you're quite a ways back. thank you. that is a factor. and then the other question i

have -- i don't see a lot of detail on the windows. they do go into some detail on the window replacements for the second floor. they look like they're wood windows, hopefully of high quality that of course would be the same as what is on there now. i expect the same thing would happen on the third floor. architect, is that the case? >> actually they need to call me and told me about the hookup to tell me the window -- we changed the style. that's how we want to do it. you pay the exact same style and window back so it is not going to change the style. we going to put exactly the same window back. >> sure. always the same one that is are

24r -- there -- on the second floor. you put new wood windows, replacing in the same as the existing ones. on your third floor, dot same type of window that blends with the second floor. >> i see. yeah. commissioner antonini: i want to make sure that the upper floor doesn't have some kind of vinyl window or something that -- that would be high quality. i'm just, i can't tell from thee from the sketches because it doesn't give the details. i would expect that it will be also -- wood windows of the same type that you have on your second floor. >> we only put -- put -- photograph. and -- >> you do have to have a door, one of them is a french door probably to get out to the patio, i expect. >> yeah. >> so open. it is bigger size. >> yeah. >> all right. >> well.

>> i think staff would work with you on that to make sure it looks appropriate with the rest of the building. >> sure. >> yeah. i would probably be supportive of going back a little on that. while still allowing them -- adequate size for their -- their bedroom and the other facilities they want to put on that third floor. it looks like, if we do go back a little further, we still could have a fairly good size master bedroom and bath up there. i wouldn't go any further back than the total of 15 feet. let's see what the other commissioners have to say. >> commissioner sugaya. >> it looks like we're going in the same direction. >> i'll make a motion. we'll take d.r. and -- the staff will work with -- with the project sponsor to -- to -- to come up with an appropriate setback, starting at perhaps 15 feet, but i like to have it so that -- well, let's say a might

not numb of 15 feet. and -- minimum of of 15 feet. no glass railings on the building. second floor windows would be -- replaced in kind. the granite and in above the door, garage door would be -- would be -- the existing stuck can he would be repaired or, the stucco would be replaced. and no granite. what else? >> the upper floor, i think that -- i think following commissioner moore's suggestion it perhaps staff should work with the project architect, on -- designer on pulling the deck away from the property lines, i don't have a size. but i think if they could relocate, it -- what is it -- >> further into the -- into the

middle of the building. that would be preferable. >> take d.r. >> how do you get the last? >> move the unit further to the middle of the structure. >> yeah. commissioner moore suggesting perhaps in to the roof deck area. a way of doing it. it is like an object there. you don't even see it. >> the direction is clear. >> i seconded. >> commissioners, take d.r. and approve the project with modifications, the ones i've gotten are minimum of 15-foot setback, project sponsor will work with staff on that. that there will be no glass railing that -- that -- that the unit would be replaced, would be

placed somewhere in the new roof deck area. that that windows -- windows would be replaced. the second floor windows would be replaced in kind. the stucco around the garage door would be replaced. >> stucco. >> would be replaced with stucco or left alone. whatever. >> i think the roof deck itself should be pulled away from the property lines to make it smaller. >> didn't have that. >> no glass railings. >> i have no -- the no glass railings. >> that would be pulled back. >> no. this is just on the two sides. i don't know, i don't think it should -- commissioner sugaya with your permission, a foot or two at the most. they'll lose your space if you go to far. >> upper deck pullback. >> i wanted to say. it was minimum of 15 feet.

i want staff to work with it. if it requires a setback and make it invisible from the street. that's my intent. >> my notes say, a minimum of 15 feet. they would work with staff. >> not make it visible. >> on that motion, commissioner antonini. >> aye fong aye moore aye sugaya aye miguel aye olague aye. thank you, that motion passes unanimously. >> koll missioners, now general public -- commissioner, now general public comment. the members have two minutes each to address you on items of the public but are within the subject matter jurisdiction of this commission? >> any general public comment? seeing none, it is closed and the meeting adjourned.

>> san francisco's buses and trains serve many riders who are blind or how low vision. muni is their lives line to get around. simple act of courtesy can help them access muni services safely. it is not just courtesy. it is the law. >> i used to take the 21

airlock. >> lot of times, when i would be waiting at the bus stop, the door would open and the driver would announce the bus line. >> 71. >> it is easier and preferable when a driver sees someone who is obviously visually impaired if they stop in front of me and say "this is the 71," "this is the seven." >> our buses are setup to announce the lines when we pull up. when i see a customer with a guide dog or cane, make sure i let them know what line i am. >> every time i get on the bus, i tell the driver where i need to get off, even if i think there digital voice system is going to announce that. just so they know in the event that it is not working. i would say a good amount of the time, i do get acknowledgment, actually.

>> good morning. >> morning. is your announcements system working? >> i'm sorry, it is not. >> could you let me know when we get to van ness and sacramento? >> i sure will. >> i have had a number of drivers be really helpful in terms of getting passengers to move down a few seats so i can sit in the front. >> can somebody give this lady a seat? >> the bus driver was say, "please wait a moment. i want to make sure you have a seat." and i hear him or her announced that he needs a seat for a person with a disability. >> as soon as the person gets on the bus, i ask the passengers if we can have a seat for this person. >> anybody help us? thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> sides, federal law requires that the customers give their seats to the elderly and disabled if they should need it. >> buses should stop in zones

that can accommodate multiple lines will stop behind one another. i cannot see what bus is behind -- i'm not even sure if there is a bus behind. the second bus does not come up to the front. oftentimes, it has caused me to be passed up by bosses, by trains, and again, it makes me late for appointments. it makes me late for my job. >> i'm often anxious that i'm going to miss the bus that i need, simply because i'm not fast enough to scamper down and find out which bus is lined up behind the bus that is currently in front of me. what i'm going to work and i take the van ness street buses to work, sometimes, one of them will pull up right next to the other one. not in a bus stop, but parallel to it. and i do not know it is there. i also do not feel comfortable

walking out into the street. >> is that my boss over there? i think that is my boss -- bus. i'm going to miss it. i don't know how many times i have missed buses because of this. >> i do not double park. it is not safe for our customers, and especially the visually impaired. anything could happen, and it is muni's policy not to double park. normally what i do, if i can safely go in behind, i pull in the zone, offload my customers, load the customers that are waiting for me. when the bus in front of the leaves, i will pull to the front for the customers that did not see me. >> sometimes, the bus pulls up, and there is stuff in my way because the boys -- bus has not pulled up right in front of me. i have to figure out how to get

around or through. i have to navigate through all of that in order to get onto the bus. >> when i pick up a visually impaired customers, i like to pull up right in front of them, make sure nothing is in the way so they can walk right on the coach. >> okay, take one big step forward. >> when i drop off a visually impaired customers, make sure you do not pull up at the shelter. you want to give them a straight shot so they can go to the left or the right. you want to pull in front or behind the shelter. never around any trees or pose. i usually let them know that they have about 10 feet before you. a straight shot, and wallace 10 feet away, and they can make the decision what they want to do from that point. every now and then, and visually impaired customer wants to be dropped off right at the shelter. so they can go to the left or the right from there.

>> ok, you want to take one big step when you step off. the shelter is straight ahead. >> if i get on the bus and asked a bus driver to please tell me when to get off at seven straight, the bus driver very often will tell me to just look at the sign, and i will say that i cannot see the sign because and visually impaired. sometimes, the bus driver gets it. some of the time, the bus driver does not get it at all. it is really difficult when you do not see well to understand where things are. it is one of those issues where people do not see it from the outside. so when they see me having problems stepping off of curbs or stairs or running into the side of a building or things like that, it would appear to them as though maybe i had been drinking, but the problem is that there is no contrast

between a great building and a sidewalk. >> it is difficult for some drivers i think to understand that i am blind. although i may look like i'm getting along very well, and it did happen to me on several occasions with drivers, questioning my ability to see. they would say, "well, you really are not that blind." not only is that infuriating, but it is just something that cuts to my core. >> there are times that visually impaired customers get on the bus, and they are moving so well that makes me wonder how blind they are, but that is not for me to decide. i'm just here to take them some point a to point b safely. >> i moved all the way across the country specifically to live in san francisco because i knew they had great public transportation. i had the greatest interactions with muni drivers because i was thrilled to be on a bus and be

able to get some more independently. i think the drivers can really feel proud that they are making people's lives possible in a way that it is not possible in other parts even of this country. >> the americans with disabilities act of 1990 is a wide-ranging federal civil- rights law that prohibits discrimination against persons with disabilities. title two of the ada addresses access to public services, including public transportation for persons with disabilities. tips for respectful communication for people with disabilities brochures are available. call sfmta accessible services at 415-701-4485 for copies.

>> i have been a cable car grip for 21 years. i am a third generation. my grand farther and my dad worked over in green division for 27. i guess you could say it's blood. >> come on in. have a seat. hold on. i like it because i am standing

up. i am outside without a roof over my head and i see all kinds of people. >> you catch up to people you know from the past. you know. went to school with. people that you work with at other jobs. military or something. kind of weird. it's a small word, you be. like i said, what do people do when they come to san francisco? they ride a cable car. >> california line starts in the financial district. people are coming down knobbhill. the cable car picks people up. takes them to work. >> there still is no other device to conquer these hills better than a