the principles, the corporate form, to provide guarantees. >> personal guarantees. >> the same. 20% ownership in the company. [inaudible] >> [inaudible] >> i heard something about sba guaranteed loans. maybe i missed something. does that have to do with the sba guaranteeing the entity? >> the question on the sba guaranteeing a entity as the order of the business, whether it is a corporation or partnership, for any small business lending, you should expect to be guaranteeing that

long personally. as a small-business owner, from a lender's point of view, we want to see that you are as invested in the business as you are asking the bank to be. the idea that non recourse loans, the way you describe it, loans that you get without having yourself personally liable is not the way it works. you should assume you will guarantee the loan regardless of the structure of your business. the good news, though, for businesses like you are describing, internet business, is that the capital requirements for that type of business is generally small. you are able to get yourself further along and share in revenues with a smaller amount of credit need. that is where we see a lot of businesses and personal service or internet business get

started, and generate revenues and be able to show growth without needing any capital, like a brick and mortar business might. >> my name is terry said. i have a retail business in san francisco for 22 years. i have a 5 04 -- 504 loan. it took me three years to get. we need more capital. i tried to get a line of credit from wells capital. i was decline. where does someone like myself go? i have a loan, i need additional funding. >> did you try through the sba? >> i already have an sba loan. i went to wells fargo for a line of credit and they would not give me one. >> i can speak to you about it. when we look at funds that are needed, the biggest thing we

look at our cash flow. i can address that with you. unless there is an issue, at that point -- [inaudible] >> let's talk, ok. >> i have a couple of more questions. i know that the panelists have agreed to stay after for those who have specific questions. i do have one question for wells fargo. what are the typical rules for applying for sba loan of less than $50,000? how much money do we need to have in your bank to apply for a loan? >> i am on the smaller side of

the bank. i am a transaction guy. i do not technically require one to have an account to do a loan with. what i look for, i generally start at 100,000 and up. when it is a requirement of 50,000 or less, i tend to call of the micro guys to help me out. that is right in their box. for us, the capacity for us to do the smaller side is not there as much as it is for them. on getting a loan through my side of the bank, i do not require an account to do that. we would like to have it, but i do not require it. >> last question for the

opportunity fund and a critic representative. are you a cdfi? is san francisco and s.p.a. in support of cdfi's being established in san francisco? >> yes, we are. we were founded in 1999 with a small business loan. that is how we started our tenderloin office. >> opportunity fund is a certified cdfi, so we are providing a benefit to low and moderate-income communities. he is the city establishing support for new cdfi's? >> mark wanted to address that, in support of cdfi's in the

city. >> we have a wealth of partners in the city. s.p.a. is just now rolling out a program for r -- will be the case by the summer. let me get one last point and on the question about relationships to lenders. the question was, do have to have an account with a bank in order to get a loan? may answer is no, but the real answer to it is certainly want to do that. one of the things we see as an important thing for you, as a small-business person to establish a relationship with a lender on a variety of levels before you look for funding. part of that is opening an account with them, letting a lender know about your business, understand your business, talk to them as you are growing your

business. when the economy is strong, all lenders are shopping for transactions. in times are tough on credit, you want to rely on those deeper liberation ships with your lender. you want to develop a relationship with a lender. it is the case where you want to open up an account, while to have another bank services that you want to have a relationship with your lender with it because when you go to them for any loan requests, you want them to know about your business and feel like they are a partner of yours, not just that you are shopping them. if you are shopping, you are just looking for the best deal from them, rather than a long- term relationship. >> i want to thank everyone for coming. hopefully, you have all signed up for our updates. we are going to be hosting these on a regular basis. the next two coming up will

focus on becoming a government contractor, how your small business can partner with the government. the next one will also be on how to grain your business, with tax -- green your business, tax credits available with that. for non-profit, charitable organizations, we have a workshop coming up. that is helpful for those of you who are looking to access the committee on a durable basis. >> also, on behalf of leader pelosi, i want to thank our panel and her staff. we are tenants in this building. i apologize for the security situation that happened upstairs. if you have concerns about it,

please come and see me. i would like to convey those to the landlord here so that it does not happen again. thank you.

>> started in 1990. the citizens of the marina district came to the fire department and asked for a program to survive for 3 days. there is a 70 percent chance we will have a 6.5 earthquake. 71 large fires. 40 major rescue operations. [inaudible]. rescue operations there were 34 structure fires we need 275 engines to handle this. we have 41. you will be on your own and we should be prepared. we will go over the merge training program. part of the training program is helping you make the decisions that will save lives. in this situation this person carrying a pail of water to put

out the fire will not put out the fire. how many people have used a fire extinguisher before. >> may be 10 percent of you. by the end of the week you will be putting out a fire with a fire extinguisher. you don't want to learn out to house an extinguisher when they big fire is in front of you. when you turn off your natural gas and water. hazardous materials will be talked about next week. 35-40 percent of you. you will find out that all of you have hazardous material in your home. the third week is disaster medicine.

you, going into a room spending 45 seconds on one person into 3 life saving techniques. by the fourth we we will teach you as search and rescuers how to keep yourself safe by identifying safe and none safe building to go into. sometimes objects are too heavy for you to liftoff of a body. we will teach you privying which will use anything you have, wood or cement blocks so you is see that people can lift heavy objects off of people. now, you have to have a plan. every program needs to have a plan. we can't say, here are your skills.

class 6, after half an hour we will split you into teams of 10 people each. putting out the fires. you will go into a dark room and doing a search. you will be treating people with injuries on them. be doing privying. lifting heavy objects off of a doll and giving iv and turning off utilities. we are building you up to the hand's on scenario. >> what do you do? let's say you feel a tremor and it's going to shake, what are you going to do? all right. 40 people said -- >> where we going to go? >> under a table. >> [laughter]. >> going to be survival of the

fitef. fittest. if you have a table go under the table. look above you, what's going to fall. what's going to hit your head. most of the chairs decent. if you are in a movie theatre or stadium what do you do? the same thing. these chairs are not heavy dutiy but covering your head is most important. if it's an empty room go against the wall and cover your head. a lot of cut in disaster heads and arms will get cut. those you can control the bleeding where as the head injury is harder. cover your head, the most important thing to do. we cover, beaware. 15 seconds. in the marina people said it

felt like a minute. if you are covering yourself under the table and it's shaking what will happen in 30 seconds? you look up, where's the table. hold on to the table. if you are inside, stay in don't go from the known to the unknown. if you are downtown in an office building or shopping at macy's, do you run in the middle of the street? no. you stay where you are. how much time do you have? seconds. you have to make a decision within seconds. if you run to the street what will happen? >> get hit by a car. you have windows, glass to fall on you. high rise. if you know where you are, stay there than to go somewhere you don't know what's there.

once it's shaking between 30 seconds to a minute and once it's over, things will fall and tip over. give it time to move around. of course, if there is danger coming to you, you want to move. so, picture these buildings. against the wall. will i go behind this wall? lean against it, cover my head? no. the pictures frames. if they come off and hit me on the top of the head, more injuries. be aware of that target. look behind you before you lean against the wall.

sometimes wrong place at the wrong time there is no way to get down this way. try to find a [inaudible] place if you can. get next to something that's sturdy that will block up against you. how much time do you have? short. >> this picture, what's a good spot? round ones. >> make sure there are no windows on top of you. if you go to that one notices sky lights above. they will fall down and hit you. either table is fine. stay away from the windows you will be better. make sure you go between the windows and make sure the glass does not pop and cut you.

>> elevators, what do you think? you don't get in elevator? no. you will be stuck there for awhile. if you go down the stair well. if there's an earthquake and you are in a high rise building. ing -- no. if it hadn't collapsed in the disaster chances are it will stay up. outside, where's an open area? high rise building when glass breaks it floats it with hit 2 blocks away from where it falls. if you are outside, you want to look up and make sure nothing is coming toward you. there is 3-5 feet of glass on market street. top of that you are going to have office