when i first moved in, i couldn't get pizza delivery because it was red lined. some of you probably realize when banks were pulling branches from needy neighborhoods forcing people to have no services. i don't want to go back to that time. contrary to what the former person said, credit unions are not mom and pop operations. they are regional and often national organizations. i know i worked in financial services for a long time. i also wants to say that no property owner under these economic times, i'm an independent consultant who works for myself. no property owner is going to leave a building vacant, purposely. >> thank you. next speaker, please? >> thank you. my name is cat and i live by businesses in the neighborhood. i see it being a good thing for the neighborhood for people to go get their money to spend at the small businesses.

everyone i have spoken to has been excited to have a bank they use so close to their house. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker. >> good evening. i'm for the project and the funny thing is recently i got foreclosed upon. i was involved in something that was -- >> you're part of the project? >> no, i'm for the project. recently i was foreclosed upon from a bank, a true bank. there was a commercial property that was in a former retail area that i couldn't lease out to a mom and pop establishment. so i'm not actually for banks here but the bottom line is this is not a formula retail. it is zoned for the planning department approves it and you know, i don't see what the problem is that we should just approve this project and move on. thank you.

>> thank you. next speaker. >> good evening, commissioners in. i have -- for chase bank or any other bank but i think it is very clear there is a precedent here that the planning department has -- 2004, been enforcing banks is not part of the formula retail. i think we need to just stay with the precedent. if the law needs to be changed, that is another issue and another forum. just want to quick address the issue, chase being a big bank ver a small mom and pop bank. my bank is in the mission. i bank at mission national bank. they have two branches in the city. they charge a $10 fee as well to maintain bank accounts. it is just part of doing business. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> it will, commissioners. my name is danny -- i'm here to read a letter from barbara who could make it this evening.

i would like to get this into the records. i write an opposition to the subject appeals as the president of the neighborhood group located a few blocks -- as a resident of the affected neighborhood i'm delighted that a stable tenant has been found thr this important commercial location. limb's appalled they seek to stall these -- to further his personal agenda. in this particular case, the appellant seeks to change language defined by the voters proposition g with bliments of 11 or more other retail sales establishments located in the united states. the financial institution is clearly not the retail sales activity yet the recent internet posting would be that it is not about the permitted -- at an issue but rather an attempt to -- the will of the voters to prevent banks from locating on the street.

>> i'm. >> can i put this in the record, though? >> next speaker, please. >> hello, my name is patrick curly. i'm here in support to have bank opening up. i think there shouldn't be a problem with it. i think any bank trying to open now during these hard times is worthwhile. thank you. >> do you have a speaker card, sir? thank you. next speaker, please. good evening. my name is john. i'm here to support the project. i would like to see chase moving into this corner. it is one of my little areas. i live over in the -- area. i'm all over the city and i drive down that area all the time. i go to kelly moore. it is good to see the -- it is a win-win for the city. it is going to bring 10 people or more. whatever the other speakers are saying. the representative for chase. i'm supporting the project. -- also for the owner to have a

spot for it to have -- to allow them to get in because it is a good area, a major thoroughfare. it is a good area. thanks again. >> thank you. next speaker. >> i'm not only the oldest member in this audience here tonight but also the oldest resident of anyone living in this area. i have lived in this area since 1974 and johnny was -- like me, building that neighborhood up. i got 14 stitches in my head where i chased a guy into the projects who was stealing from my car. i got my parts back including his weapon. so the fact is -- i don't need any caretakers to tell me what i need for this neighborhood. i'm part of it. down the street from me is a japan needs man, 92 years of age. we had no banks in this area. there was only one bank at wels wells fargo. that went down.

now we get a bank in. how are these people going to bank? they can't go like me and drive out of the neighborhood. i don't like big banks. i'm the only one probably here that continues to do banking with small banks. they should do the same. thank you. >> thanks, guys. eric anderson. i live in the area that we're discussing. i'm in favor of conditional use hearing and i think it would be a fair part of this type of process. it is what created san francisco as we know it today. thank you. >> good evening, commissioners. i want to remind people there is a bank of america just behind chase and when people talk about there is no banking options in the neighborhood, it is a fallacy. i live just half a block from the proposed site. i see the traffic impacts that the actual bank of america draws

off of fell and oak and it is really clear why chase wants to be in this location. it is a great billboard location for oak and fell. and oak. which is why i believe it is important to have a conditional use hearing because as a resident and neighbor that -- uses a car and a bike, i feel it is important for the planning department and the planning commission to really analyze the traffic impacts associated with this proposed project. when you have the potential lining up a cue, cars waiting to turn left on to this site, that is a potential danger. that's why a conditional use permit is critical. as for vacancies on that property -- i understand there has been at least 16 letter s of interest into that property. >> your time is up. >> thank you, next speaker.

>> good evening. thank you. my name is summer peterson. for the last three years served as president of the merchant association. i've also lived in the neighborhood for 15 years before i opened my own small business three years ago. trying to protect small business is huge. one thing we're really concerned is that the message that whole situation is sending out to other landlords is that if you hold out long enough, you can get a large scale, a big business retailer in at higher rent. when me and all of my fellow small business owners, when our leases are up and we want to renew, how do we know all of our leases will not be renewed bauds somebody is going the wait for a bigger business to come in and pay higher rent. what is going to happen to the character? we really care about this neighborhood. chase is five blocks away. so many people in our neighborhood don't even know

this is happening. nobody seems to know. we would really love a hearing. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker. >> i'm a 15-year resident of the neighborhood. i live about nine blocks away from the site. overhead, please. we have -- about 350 signatures that we collected of the various businesses and streets. almost exclusively people who live near project and also an online petition that has 95 signatures on it. i would like to say there is a chase nearby. 8 1/2 blocks away and that one is occupying store fronts or designs specifically. additionally, the -- takes up a third one. supposed to be for local independent businesses. they take away spaces. also i got 440 square feet.

441 from two different estimates. we need an inspection and lastly, the walk-up area is going from the outside to the inside. that means additional square footage. it will go 70 square feet additional based on my estimates. >> any other speakers? >> seeing none, we'll move into rebuttal then. >> thank you, commissioners. several issues. first, on the issue of measuring the space. as i think everyone concedes it is extremely significant and 50 square feet is nothing. i think we all know that. it is critical that regardless of the issue, that determination on the square footage that we get someone out from the department of building inspection, as he spoke, he got the runaround.

he has requested both agencies to go out. i would submit the only way this is going to happen is if you retain jurisdiction over the appeal for a short period of time for just a week to have and direct d.b.i. to do that measuring and i would request that be condition on both pears having the opportunity to be present. i would also submit that now that we're changing the plan with enclosing an a.t.m. machine, that may also affect square footage. that is unclear to me at this point but again we're dealing with very small square footage so a small change could make a big difference. the issues around whether the bank is a good thing for the neighborhood, bad thing for the neighborhood. those should all be addressed.

i will say i've never been accused of being a newcomer to a neighborhood that i've been since 1993. the most important thing, aside from the measure, that i would say is i would urge you to take a step back for a minute. look at the planning code. gus showed you the applicable portion. the planning department has never issued a written decision saying banks are exempt. they have made comments. the former zoning administrator has made comments at hearings assuming they were exempt. when i first looked at that, i thought he might be right because it doesn't say financial service. when you look at this law, that interpretation is absolutely wrong. i'm going to put this down again. this is what mr. herned pointed out before. i know it is small. if you look at the top, i put an arrow next to -- defined as formula retail. this is the -- the zoning

control table for an n.c. 2 district. retail sales and services is specifically listed, as are all of those other things that have an arrow. all of those things under it, 711-40, they are just types of retail sales and service. what planning is doing there, absolutely mistaken, when they describe retail sales and service as a catch-all for things that are not listed, they are wrong. that's what 711-40 is, other retail sales and services not listed below. when you add up all of these different specific uses plus sales and services, all of that together is we tail sales and services. that's what the -- retail sales and services. it applies to a, and a means

everything. b. c, d and e. what they are asking you to do is ignore a. they are telling you to read this law as if it does not cover retail sales and services and if given the findings and the purpose of this law, that is absolutely inconsistent with the purposes and the plain meeting to have statute. it is impossible to read that law in that way. they are fundamentally wrong. i feel like that has been glossed over. the permit holder didn'tard what was submitted in the brief. what does it mean? what does it mean? if planning is interpreting it to mean nothing and it is the key provision in the law. thank you. >> before you sit down, the -- project sponsors, permit holders, briefs, states and

clarifies for us that the first permit is already completed and that the only two you are>> then dments. is that a fair statement? >> well, i have no idea about the work being completed. there is paper covering the windows, and there is work going on in there. the permit it to do basically all of the work in there, we did not know about it in time to appeal, and then we learned about the amendment to it, and we appealed timely within that time. the formula of retail issue is obviously the same for all of those permits. any permit in stalled for a chase bank is that we are correct. none of that should be until

they have a conditional use. i cannot say exactly where they are in the process. commissioner hwang: thank you. commissioner peterson: i do not know what the process is, but i have a car parked in the garage. vice president garcia: you have to have it up by midnight. -- have it out by midnight. >> one of the permit holders. a couple of issues that are raised that the tenants were kicked out. you have received letters from the previous tenants. january/february 2008, the issue of the north can handle news,

where the area was surveys, the neighbor said that a desirable business for the business would be a bank, so it is hard to say how one can predict that. the space measurement issue, the space is measured by the standards, which measures the outside walls, a conservative message -- method. the space itself could not be measured at this time. it was not billed out yet, so the area in question that has the hallway and all of that, the space for the storage, the maintenance equipment for the owner is not there right now, and the atm vestibule is not added, the square footage that was there. that was just moved, so that

square footage was there in the original plans, and one of the commissioners pointed out, the appeal is too late, and we spent time in our original minutes on that, but it was explained in our brief. the change of use to a bank, if this permit were invalidated, it affects some exterior work and work on the foundation, and the appellant was totally aware. we put in our brief that there was a meeting before the first permit was ever issued with the appellant was present, and the forthcoming issuance of the permit was discussed. commissioner peterson: excuse me, before you sit down, you can save the minutes. could you respond to the appellant's statutory argument, please? >> yes, this is in our papers,

as well. essentially, i do not know how many lawyers there are on the board. construction for every way you want to swing. in this particular case, i think the one that was clearly applies is that whenever you have a list of things that are covered under any kind of law, and one thing is not listed there, that exclusion is significant under the law, and it is intended to be read that if it is not on the list, it is not covered. the status of purpose of the legislature and the other lawmakers of making a list of specific items. i would say that that is the sort of simplest way to understand the statutory construction. commissioner peterson: what about -- >> the list that is being put out is not formula retail.

it lists what is permitted or conditional or whatever in a particular zone, and in the planning code, it is there to tell you what kind of permit you need, but any one of those tables is not meant to give you a definition of the formula retail. there is a whole section in the planning code where each one of these things is defined, and by giving them separate dimensions in that way and by constructing the code and then the formula retail law in that way by listing specific items that are then elsewhere specifically defined in the coach, -- code, the intent is to include those that are specifically -- commissioner hwang: what would you say would fall into the catch-all provision? >> i would not claim to be an expert on every type of retail

that is there, but i would say that maybe like a dollar store, right? that is not exactly an in particular product. commissioner hwang: that is not listed. >> i am sorry. maybe i did not understand your question. commissioner hwang: i am sorry, i am having a problem with that if it is not listed, and the formula retail -- i wanted to understand your statutory construction argument, and you went to if it is not listed out, it is not in, so there are categories of businesses that would fall in the catch-all. >> the reason is that the dollar store is not defined in the planning code as a particular use the way financial services are. commissioner hwang: ok. >> specific uses in the code and that are otherwise argument -- regulated, as mr. sanchez

pointed out, would that fall into the catch-all category? the catch-all category is for other things not defined in the code, which is why i used the example that i did, because financial services is a use that is defined and has a specific use restrictions in the code. a type of use that is not specifically identified in the coat -- code. vice president garcia: i don't mean to do this, but she is going to miss her car. do you mind speaking when everyone gets back from trying to move their automobiles, mr. brenna? -- brennan? we will be back at 5 after 12:00.

>> thank you very much. [gavel]