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they're expressing their religious beliefs. now is the time to make justice a reality for all of god's children. captioning provided by the first amendment center, funded by the freedom forum. welcome to speaking freely, a weekly conversation about free expression, the arts, and america. i'm ken paulson, joining you today from nashville. our guest today is a man whose name and sound are known and respected worldwide. he's a 1987 inductee into the rock and roll hall of fame, and he was the winner of the lifetime achievement award from the rhythm and blues foundation. we're pleased to welcome bo diddley. [applause] great to have you here. and you've had this amazing career, much of it centered around electric guitar. and yet, it all began with a violin. is that right? [laughs] yep. i started playing violin. at least i was taught classical music, and i was taught by professor o.w. frederick

at ebenezer baptist church in chicago, illinois, where i was raised up at. and i, when i got to be, i think, about 12 or 13 years old, my sister bought me a guitar because i had heard john lee hooker playing. and i made the statement, "if that cat can play, i know i can learn." [laughter] and actually, i was being real self-centered to myself then, like, kind of making fun of him. but today john lee hooker is a monument. i mean, he is bigger than big, you know. with the way he was doing, he had a style that was his. there was no copying. he's got people running around trying to figure out, "what are you doing? how do you do that," you know.

so i decided to try to play like muddy waters, elmore james, and all these different blues people. i tried to learn this when my mother went to the a&p. [laughter] you understand? see, 'cause she didn't deal with the guitar. she didn't like it. she loved that violin, but that guitar was just not the right thing to have in her house. you understand? and she told me many time, "don't bring that in here, boy." and like, she wanted to kill my sister for giving it to me. you know, like, she said that i was going to be worthless. and back then, i can kind of understand that i wasn't even allowed to have a funny book in the house. mama said that was bad news for the brain. and i agree with her.

it is. it's something-- when i should have been learning arithmetic and all, whatever, you know, looking at batman and all this stuff that ain't nobody can do in the first place, you know. kids, superman got a friend of mine killed. he jumped out the window with a sheet on him, thinking that he could fly, and broke his neck, you understand me? so mama was right. she said, "that mess you looking at in that book "ain't no good, boy. get that out of-- don't bring that in my house." so years later, when you become a worldwide famous musician-- she still didn't like it. [laughs] "when are you going to take up the violin again?" she still didn't like it. but my-- well, see actually, just to straighten out what i've just said is, my birth mother didn't care one way or the other, you know.

she would come around and look to see what i was doing. but mama gussie, which raised me, which was my mother's first cousin and-- because my mother didn't raise me, you know. my mother had two boys. back then in 1928, it was kind of hard to feed two rugrats, you understand? [laughs] so she had to let me go with mama gussie, which was her first cousin. and that's why i had the name ellas bates mcdaniel, you know. so now that's cleared up with somebody done read something. my name is not otha. if you read that in a book someplace, i don't know where they got that otha from. but somebody decided, "well, we don't know what his name is, so let's give him one." [laughter] finally, you are allowed to play the guitar in public. and you come up with a sound that has been mimicked,

imitated, stolen from you over the years. and yet every article i've read about the bo diddley beat, people try and describe it in print, and they can't. they say, "chink-a-chink a-chink," and they can't possibly explain it. do you have a way to explain the bo diddley beat? yeah. it's mixed with kind of, uh, an african religious chant. that's what i call it. and also, they tried to say, "oh, it's hambone." and a lot of us--i'm 72 now, and a lot of us remember that old thing that kids used to do with paper and their pants leg and beat on it and holler, ♪ hambone, hambone, where you been, ♪ you know? it's not hambone. see, the way that went was, ♪ hambone, hambone, buh-duh-dun. ♪ hambone, you know. but bo diddley went, ♪ bo diddley, duh-duh, duh-duh, duh-duh-duh. ♪ ♪ jingka-jingka jing-ka-jing-jing. ♪

so you took that bo diddley beat into chess studios, 1954 or '55. yeah. i ain't cutting you off, but you want to know how i did that? yeah. it was a mistake. it was an accident. i was trying to play ♪ i got spurs that jingle jangle jingle. ♪ [laughter] that's--i love country music. i'm a--i'm a country fanatic, you understand me? i love it. when i'm riding in my car going to the airport to go catch a flight, and, uh--i turn on the country station to find out what's going on, because the lyrics in country music are so real, you know, and there's no dirt involved in them, you know. it's just good. so i was trying to do this, and i went ♪ bom-ching-ching-ching.

and then ♪ a-ching-ching. i said, "wait a minute." ♪ ching-ching-ching ching-ching. ♪ and then i said, "hey, i got some"-- i just went and called the rest of the guys, jerome and all of them with the maracas. i said, "hey, man, listen up. can you do this on the drum?" boom-boom-boom boom-boom. and clifton james, my original drummer, he said, "yeah." he said, "what is this?" i said, "i don't know, man. just do it." then i'm gonna do this, you know. and we put it together, and i went to chess records with it. at first i went to vee-jay. i went to vee-jay records 'cause i--i didn't even really know that chess existed, and they were two blocks away from my house. i lived on langley avenue in chicago, and they were on cottage grove

where the streetcar ran up and down. and i used to go through that alley all the time and break bottles up against the wall and stuff like that, you know. hey, i was a little boy, too, you know. i liked to see a coke bottle splatter, you know. so i did it. and so they asked me-- when i went to vee-jay, they asked me, says, "what kind of music is it?" i said, "i don't know, man. i'm just playing it." "well, we don't-- we-- "we don't like-- we don't know what to do with something like that." so i left. tore my little heart down. i mean, i was like, i was 26 years old, and i said, "hmm. okay, i'll go back home." and i had a little old tape recorder. we used to have a wire tape recorder. this is going way back, had wire on it, you know?

and i went back, and i said, "i'm gonna make me a tape dub." then the lady across the street sold me a webco disc cutter, used to make 78s. and i didn't have no money, so i took another record that i had found in the alley and went and bought me some lacquer, paint lacquer, you know. and i laid it down flat, and i took the can and poured it on it, and then it dried. and i went, i said,, "wow, i'm gonna see if this will handle-- if i can cut a record on this stuff." it looked like the same stuff. so i hooked it up. sure enough, that needle cut in that lacquer, and i played it. and i took it to chess records. remind me now, i ain't got no money.

i didn't have nothing. and back then, if a kid had a nickel, you was rich. you know, you could buy penny bags of candy all day. you know, penny bags, big old bags, you know. and i made this, and leonard chess looked at me, and he says, "hey, i believe you got something here." and they told me, they said, "let's hear the real lyrics." so i started reciting the lyrics. and that's where that uncle john came in, because that was the lyrics. he says, "we like the music, but i don't think the old folks is gonna go for the lyrics." i said, "well, what can we do?" he says, "i tell you what. you go back home and rewrite this thing and come back here." and i went home and in exactly seven days came back with, ♪ bo diddley bought his baby a diamond ring, ♪ ♪ a-chungk-a-chungk a-changk-a-chang-chang. ♪ and that was the beginning of it.

[applause] and you folks didn't think you were in for a performance today. so jingle jangle, was that the gene autry record? yeah. gene come in-- see, i'm-- i'm a western lover. my wife gets mad with me because she can't never get the tv. you know what i'm saying? because she got to wait till i go to sleep, then click. because i'm looking at something, you know. and i like the shoot-'em-ups, you know. they was real entertainers, man. that explains the album cover of bo diddley is a gunslinger. yeah. that's a great cover. you set that shot up, didn't you? huh? you set up that photo for the album cover? yeah, that horse that you see in that, we had to do this real quick. because this pony, she was a young filly, she was. and she would come to the fence and just look over

and then look at the cameraman and then walk off and turn around and look and then come back and stand where i was at. like, "if you're gonna shoot this, i'm getting in it," you know. [laughter] and it just was amazing that she turned and went that way, and i said, "man, come on. hurry up; get it. get the shot." and they shot it. and that's why you see her walking down, 'cause she was getting ready to turn around and come back. it's a classic album cover. so you write this song in seven days that changes your world and the world. it goes to number two on the r&b charts, and it's always being heard somewhere in the world today. flip side is i'm a man. both uncle john, the first song you record, and i'm a man, people react to it and say, "hey, that's dirty music." yeah. how'd you react to that? well, first of all, they put ideas in my head when they started saying that.

i was wondering, "what's dirty?" what did i say? i didn't say nothing. you did say, in i'm a man, "all you pretty women, come along. "i just need one hour with you. i can make love to you, baby, in an hour's time." there's nothing suggestive about that. but wait a minute. now, hold it. there's nothing suggestive about it. but if you walked in the hallway and you caught some dude and a chick standing up in there, all hooked up kissin', somebody'd run and holler, "they was in the hallway making love." that's--that's-- they were kissing. now, the other part of it, we won't go into. [laughter] so you rewrote bo diddley, but you didn't have to rewrite i'm a man. they took off. they were huge hits. and this is your first record, the one you kind of made in the kitchen and then in chess studios. did you go, "this is easy"? yeah. but you know the reason why i wrote i'm a man? muddy waters had a tune out called he was a honeybee or something like that.

and i said, "well, he say he's a honeybee or rolling stone or something." and i said, "hm, i'm a man." so i went and wrote me a song, saying m-a-n, you know. and it went--course somebody did say something about it. you're right. somebody said something about it, you know, and they called it devil music. and my mother walked up on me, gussie, she walked up on me and said, "you ought to get a job." [laughter] so now you have this huge hit, and everybody wants you on their television show. and along comes the ed sullivan show. it was called toast of the town at that time. and a producer gets this idea. "we've got this guy who plays guitar well." there's also this big hit record by tennessee ernie ford called 16 tons. we'll just have bo diddley do 16 tons, 'cause tennessee ernie ford's not available. but things went really badly that day.

can you tell us about that? yeah, i lived with that lie a lot of years that was told. see, my name bo diddley and the song bo diddley got them confused in the program. and whoever printed up the program, they should have put it, "bo diddley doing bo diddley, 16 tons." but they put "bo diddley, 16 tons." so i thought i was supposed to do two songs. so i did the one that i was supposed to be there in the first place for, which was bo diddley. and ed sullivan got mad, you know. when i did 16 tons, and they were trying to get me-- all of them backstage freaking out trying to get me off the stage. and i'm doing what the program said, you know. [laughter]

so i live with that lie. that, ah, he got real mad with me, told me i would never work nowhere no more, and he'd see to this, that, and the other. and i said, "man, i was drivig a truck when i come up here, "and i can go back to driving a truck. [laughter] "i know too many things. "you ain't gonna shut me down. you might slow me up, but you ain't gonna shut me off," you know what i'm saying? the other instruction they had for you, though, was that when you did 16 tons, you weren't supposed to move. no, no. they told me "no wigglin'." [laughter] no wiggling. in a matter of years, after you'd had a successful career and you're touring all over and you're on every major tour and you're traveling internationally, people in great britain begin to hear your music and respond. and suddenly you've inspired the rolling stones, the animals, the yardbirds. were you a little bit startled when you went to great britain and found that you were actually even bigger there than you were in the u.s.? yeah. a little bit.

did it feel good? yeah, it felt very good, but it was scary, you know. how many times can i go to europe and work and make a living? you know what i'm saying? but america has so much to choose from. we--i remember when we were going to europe, they only had one radio station and one tv station or something like that. if you wasn't careful, it was on and gone. your album, man amongst men, you've got a song about this. and i wanted to share some lyrics. by the way, the first cut on man amongst men is bo diddley is crazy. sick. he's crazy. he's sick. he's a lunatic. you were just trying to frighten interviewers, weren't you, with that? no, you know-- it's a terrific song. you know what? that was my approach to punk rock. that's what it was. this is a man who opened for the clash, the definitive punk rock band. he opened for the clash. that was my approach to punk rock.

and i just wrote a new one called i'm a bad seed. [laughs] you understand? talk about the song called kids, don't do it. it is as close to rap as you've come in your career. i was the first one, but we--in my neighborhood, in the ghetto, as they call it, or the hood. today it's the hood, you understand? but in my neighborhood, they called it signifying. you talk about me a while, and i'll talk about you a while, till somebody said something about somebody's mother. then it was a fight. [laughter] you could talk about daddy all day. nobody would do anything. but don't say nothing' about mama. you might have to fight four or five dudes, you understand me? see, so i wrote this song called kids, don't do it before we had all this mess that went down in colorado. and if i can recite the lyrics-- please, please.

it says, ♪ kids, kids, don't do it. ♪ kids, kids, don't do it. ♪ i can't be your mama; i can't be your dad. ♪ ♪ but what you kids doin' is makin' me mad. ♪ ♪ you runnin' in the streets, and you runnin' loose. ♪ ♪ i wonder if there's something old diddley could do. ♪ ♪ you runnin' after something that you think is a rabbit. ♪ ♪ start to foolin' with drugs and end up with a habit. ♪ ♪ kids, kids, don't do it. don't do it. ♪ ♪ don't, don't, don't do it. ♪ last night somebody called on the phone, ♪ ♪ said little willie junior, he ain't coming home, ♪ ♪ he dead. say what? ♪ ♪ with a bullet in his head. ♪ now, if he had listened what his mama said, ♪ ♪ maybe he wouldn't have that bullet in his head. ♪ ♪ he's gone. ♪ he was doin' wrong when he should have been home. ♪ ♪ kids, kids, don't do it. don't do it. ♪ ♪ don't, don't, don't do it. ♪ somebody said willie doin' his thing. ♪ ♪ come to find out willie was running with a gang. ♪ ♪ look at him; he ain't getting his thing. ♪ ♪ he got a bullet in his brain. ♪ ♪ kids, kids, don't do it. don't do it. ♪ ♪ don't, don't, don't, don't do it. ♪

♪ now, if there's a gun in your home, ♪ ♪ be real smart and leave it alone. ♪ ♪ don't take your mom and daddy's gun to school ♪ ♪ because the one that gets shot just might be you. ♪ ♪ kids, kids, kids, don't do it. ♪ ♪ don't do it, don't, don't, don't do it. ♪ ♪ listen to bo diddley. ♪ stay in school and get your phd. ♪ ♪ yo, i'm out of here. ♪ [applause] we've only got a few minutes left. i want to talk to you about rap music, which you just performed very convincingly. a lot of people credit you with actually inspiring all of it. and yet today, the man who in 1955 was condemned by some for playing dirty records, you're really down on rap music today for being obscene and violent. you can't find a record that i've ever recorded with one dirty four-letter in it, nowhere. this rap music, guys talking about raping their mama and killing their daddy and their mama

and their sisters and all. kids don't need to hear that garbage, you know. [applause] so what would you do about it? there are people who think that government should step in and stop it. no, no, we don't need the government to get into it. people should police themselves. decency. decency. these are good entertainers that are doing this, and they need to think about what they're doing. they're sending the wrong message, and we on the streets are dealing with it. and i don't understand how the f.c.c. can allow that stuff to be put on the air. [applause] but if you want to make a record that's a little bit ughnn, sell it round the corner in that shop to an adult. you understand what i mean? i'm not saying if i don't like it, you can't listen at it. but i don't want my kids listening at it, not until they're old enough to deal with it. on your 70th birthday, people sent greetings from all over the world,

musicians and others, posted on your website. and so many warm wishes, so many people clearly grateful to you for your music, for influencing their careers. i just want to read, as we close here, a message from tommy james, who said, "all the roads on the rock and roll roadmap lead back to you." that's very well said. thank you so much for being here with us. thank you for having me here. all right, okay. [applause] ♪ i'm crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ahh! ♪ bo diddley is crazy. ♪ bo diddley is sick. ♪ sick. ♪ bo diddley is crazy. ♪ bo diddley is a lunatic. ♪ bo diddley is crazy. ♪ bo diddley is sick. ♪ sick. ♪ bo diddley is crazy. ♪ bo diddley is a lunatic. ♪ mama asked me when i was growing up, ♪ ♪ what did i wanna be? ♪ ♪ i said, "i wanna play my rock and roll music ♪

♪ and make people happy." ♪ mother jumped up and shook her head. ♪ ♪ and listen to what the lady said. ♪ ♪ "you're sick." ♪ sick. ♪ "you're a lunatic." ♪ lunatic. ♪ "you're sick." ♪ sick. ♪ "you're a lunatic." ♪ lunatic. ♪ all i want to do is play my music ♪ ♪ and make people happy. ♪ i didn't want to be an old drunk ♪ ♪ drunk, drunk, like my pappy. ♪ ♪ all i want to do is make people jump up and down. ♪ ♪ and do the thing and make 'em jump and spin around. ♪ ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ bo diddley is crazy. ♪ naaa-na na-na-na. ♪ naa-na-na. ♪ naaa-na-na-na-na na. ♪ na na na na. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ he's singing crazy. ♪ bo diddley is a lunatic. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ he's sick. ♪ uh-huh, crazy. ♪ crazy.

♪ bo diddley is a lunatic. ♪ ♪ i want everybody in here to know ♪ ♪ well, we better not go to the top floor. ♪ ♪ you can look in my face, ♪ ♪ telling i'll do it right through the twin gates ♪ ♪ i'm crazy. ♪ crazy ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ i'm crazy. ♪ na-na-na na-na. ♪ na na na na. ♪ na-na-na na-na. ♪ na na na-na na-na. ♪ crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ bo diddley israzy. ♪ bo diddley is crazy. ♪ bo diddley is sick. ♪ bo diddley is crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ he's crazy. ♪ he's sick. ♪ he's sick. he's sick. ♪ ♪ he is a lunatic. ♪ na-na-na na-na. ♪ na na na na. ♪ na-na-na na-na. ♪ na na na na. ♪ do-do do-do do do-do do. ♪

♪ do-do-do do-do-do. ♪ do-do do-do do do-do do. ♪ ♪ do-do-do do-do-do. ♪ i got great books in my pocket ♪ ♪ that sound legally crazy. ♪ if you see me, get out of my way ♪ ♪ 'cause you hear me say i'm crazy. ♪ ♪ crazy. ♪ i'm crazy. ♪ i'm crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ i'm a lunatic. ♪ he's a lunatic. ♪ i ain't got both oars in the water. ♪ ♪ i went out the other night with the devil's daughter. ♪ ♪ ha-ha-ha. ♪ he's sick. captioning provided by the first amendment center, funded by the freedom forum. captioning by captionmax www.captionmax.com ♪ i'm sick. ♪ i'm sick. ♪ believe me, i'm bpp-bbp-bbb. ♪ ♪ one night my mother, she threw me out of the house. ♪ ♪ because she caught me foaming at the mouth. ♪ ♪ ha-ha-ha-ha.

♪ i'm crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ i'm crazy. ♪ crazy. ♪ i'm sick. ♪ sick. ♪ sick. ♪ sick. ♪ sick. ♪ mm-bhyy-ya. >> i work with the department of

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thing for us to take used motor oil from customers. we have a 75-gallon tank that we used and we have someone take it from here to recycle. >> so far, we have 35 people. we have collected 78 gallons, if not more. these are other locations that you can go. it is absolutely free. you just need to have the location open. you are set to go. >> hello. 9 judge terri l. jackson. the court is now recruiting prospective civil grand jurors. our goal is to develop a pool of candidates that is inclusive of