that you just will not go buy in any lumbar yard today. >> it's a piece of timber. you see the rings and by looking at the rings imagine how big the tree was. okay. see how tight they are. the tree was quite large. if you look at this one, it's hard to perceive where the circle of the tree rings actually were. imagine this tree, it was huge. >> that's douglas fir. it's funny today we have modern engineered lumber this is natures perfect natural lumber. this is the spencer house, this is a section of an old capital on the top of the column holding

the center span being in the basement. everything in that house all the framing is of this quality. we would make molding out of it or stair treads today. as a result that house after 106 years of earthquakes is still plum and level and you know in amazing shape because -- >> if you look this is a modern 2 by 4 you see the rings. this one is not so bad in terms of how close together they are. >> you have a question? >> what if you eluded to earlier that the application of some of the misguided modeling materials to the outside of the building might cause the building to deteriorate more quickly. i think what you are talking about now would indicate it's a good idea, i'm sorry, because of our desire to in effect restore

to what we had before, for good feeling to do this but if that elusion you were talking about in terms of deterioration cause by modern materials is accurate there is a maintenance and a money saving reason to do what you are doing. i'd like you to expand on that for those who don't perceive that aluminum siding is a bad idea joochlt it's tough to get people to think in long-term costs instead of short term costs. materials least expensive to ark ply and the least labor to put stucco is like a sponge it will weep moisture up to the stucco and hold it next to the wood.

certain sidings doesn't let a building breathe. in a humid environment it's important the building can breathe. things like the wood siding, you know applied in the siding for example. all that allows a lot more air to move through a building. we want modern, heated nondrafty homes. the tighter you make the home you have problems with mildew and other items along those lines. >> also, there was no insulation when the houses were built. when we remodel a house there is no insulation. if you go to an area and water was to get behind something it wasn't staying there over time it evaporated. >> now we put insulation and that will cause the moisture to stay longer that's where you get the dry rot and mold issues. >> you got a question? >> we are talking about the old

luck bar you gave a couple of rules of thumb looking at the quality of the old lumber and the weight of the material. this material is used in old building as structural timber can it be graded? how do you get a quality structure value out of old lumbar like that. that's part of the problem of using on old luck bar new lumbar meets the building codes. often it's a case by case situation. you are using an old beam like the beam you are passing around that has certain qualities you can talk to your individual building department about that. the building code has a chapter called the state historical building code. in that there is a table of

arcake materials values. that derived from the old code for existing buildings uced, which has been readopted to a new form of the international code for bellings using the old values you can often come up with reasonable values to used for older materials. if there is a significant structural element that needs to be used. we have requested a lumbar grader on evaluate it where we really worry about specific element we have done it. >> let's talk about windows. we were talking about people replacing windows with energy efficient vinyl windows. i find that to be a problem in many regards. again. they don't see values the hundred year old window might

have offered to the building. >> this window has this detail. this shrinks everything is not thick enough. at the spencer house we rehab billtated 20 hung windows. thissa the meeting rail and forms a weather skeel. the meeting rail rotd and was no longer sound. everything else was in wonderful shape. we took 20 of these guys out in a nice assembly line fashion. we moved the old rail with a tricky joint retrofitted these. that meant we had all the original historic dmrasz and sashes and we were able to do

that for a hundred dollars a window which is far cheaper than the replacement costs. >> we have a member of the planning department who can help us. >> one of the things the planning department is charged with is preserving our neighborhood character. one of the most obviously features of a building is it's windows. if you come in with a replacement window permit and you are suggesting to pvinyl windows in where it was wood we will send that permit upstairs and have someone look at to see if you are degrading the building if you had a house with aluminum windows and you want to put in wood windows that help restore the character of that building you can probably get that permit over the counter.

in the savings of permit review time it an incentive to do it. it does wonders for the house in preserving the character. the doubling hung window up there the upper sash shingles over the lower sash. that gives a nice vertical aspect with a series of windows. in the 50's when preem replaced those with sliders the sliding windows are out of plain with each otherc'd in a horizontal w that's out of character for victorian houses. when you think about replacing the windows replace them in like and in kind the same type of window original to the belling. >> i agree with in like and in kind replacing double pane does a lot for energy efficiency. is there a way you can

accommodate? >> from the street it's not apparent if it's double or single paned. you can take this to a window shop and they can widen it so you can put in a double glazed window in the original sash. >> we have in san francisco a few shops that specialize in the double hung windows. say the top sash is broken or you have dry rot in here. by removing the piece in the middle you take the window out bring it to a shop and have them make you a replica that can be installed cheaply. a window like this would be expected to last a hundred

yoors. they need maintenance and need to be cleand and painted. you have to change the sash cords. the sash cording are connected to a weight. not that big here's a little weight. when you you know in an earthquake you hear the tremendous banging in the house going on. that's almost the weights banging around. the weights slamming around. >> people think you replace a window because it doesn't go up and down the cords fray and it doesn't slide. there is an access panel this has a screw and you remove this from the outside, grab the weight. you feed new cord up there and tie it to the weight. it's something that on a saturday afternoon that it's really not that hard to do. if you don't know it's there a

lot of things get taken out because people think they are broken. there are pressures with newer windows they tighten up the building so we have increased mold and mildew it's a serious problem in san francisco. i say, open your window get ventilation and people say, i will get cold. and we have the tremendous trade off in making people comfortable but you have to keep your building ventilated or you will get mold. my favorite recommendation if you live on the top floor of the building put in a sky light and keep it open all the time. newer products a lot of fans now. vent fans that are made to c constantly run at a low air

volume. they have a censor and when you come to the room they kick on higher. >> i. r wanted to follow up with the gentlemen's comment. those window you are double pane, you have to remove the windows before you take it to the shop. you have to remove all the trim and take the whole thing out. >> seems like a lot of [inaudible] why all the modern way to do it they put in the new window the same day. >> it's convenient. there is no doubt that putting in a new window is convenient. >> what is the cost to put in the new window economicically is still cheaper putting a double pane in there. >> it depends on if you are

replacing the sash or the whole unit. >> i think what i would like to know is for energy saving i like to have a double pane glass. then just to remove the trim take that panel out and take it to the shop so they can do it takes an amount of work. >> you do have to remove a molding and the parting bead are there are contractors in san francisco that specialize in windows. no matter what you replace this with you have to pull the entire window out. if you replace the entire jams that's a huge amount of work. to replace the sashes it's the same amount of work to take out the sashes and to get that out and get it fixed.

>> i have single pane removed. coming the same day and very quick can they dot double panels double glass? they can premeasure. they come in measure your windows they go back to the shops fabricate them. they take out the old windows and put the new ones in. you are not waiting a week for a new window. if you have to wait a week or 2 or 3 you are looking at a service life of 50 plus years. if you put in a vinyl clad window my experience i seen people put them in and 10 years later replace them again. and 15 years later replace em. you are not loezing time. >> the essense ever the

question is different. they can put in a single pane can they remove the sash and put in a doubling pane. if the rabbit is the groove in which the glass sits. if it was thick enough to get the double pane and have room for glazing or a sash stop you would be able to do that. that would depend. thickness. >> it's not thick here. >> it's less to mount double paning than for them to make you a new sash. >> may be outside our expertise. the on double pane and single the argument for energy efficiency double pane is better.

my question, his building is not insulated. you double paned the glass area but the whole wall is leaking. how much improvement do you get by replacing the windows when the rest of the building is lose and has drafts and is -- >> quite a big difference the way you perceive being cold is the heat of our body radiating toward a source that's pull ittiing that way. when you are near a window you will feel that more than a cold wall. >> do you feel like you can add something to that? >> even though the old walls are drafty they have an r value that's better than the single

pane window. if you were going to chose blowing insulation or replace the windows and which would save you more energy. you might be right if it were one of the other you would be better insulating the walls. but if you are going to replace the windows anyway it's a no brainer. >> -- you are rd 5 single pane you are taking it to r 2 and 4 it's significant. >> repair your old windows. the building department has a good library on preservation and how to go about doing it. here's a book about how you repair and maintain the exeter of your building. publications in american society for preservation technology. the collection of their

publications which are about preserving your old building. lots of resources and references and invite you to look at them. call 558-5205. call usoir come in and take a lock at this stuff. san francisco heritage which has their main office on goth. franklin street has a large library of preservation technology. the planning department has a library that effects this. there is a lot of resources available. >> on line. the planning department has bulletins on line. >> may an add briefly to that resource in san francisco. i'm on the committee of architectural heritage we are putting together lectures of old house issues. we go to homes with a certain

problem and address that issue and how to fix it it's geared at homeowners that have these problems. >> we the building department issues weekly calendar of all trainings we can come up with in the san francisco area. we will post that on your training website as well. >> okay. question here? >> you are advocating fresh air for your buildings health what about the houses that have sealedat iings no gable vents that's trapped air and moisture. >> the building codes have almost always required vent laugz in your attics. there is a ceiling joist and above that area would require ventilation. i found some where there is a small space in san francisco a seals joist and roof rafters

over that in a small space that are not ventilated. we are climate zone 3 we don't have a lot of the problems that places with more climates with build up of moistures. those areas are supposed to be ventilated to the outside. it's easy to do except where you have property lying walls you can't cut holes to ventilate because you can't have holes that's how fire spreads from building from builds. you have to have it mushrooms. ventilation is critical in concealed spaces. >> i see a lot of modern doors put. people replace the traditional doors which takes a lot out 469 character of the building. that's what you look at first is

the front entrance of the building. >> the trap of do you replace the door or the unit? oftentimes it's easy to replace the door and not the unit. once again, once you take the unit out of the wall you are changing the waterproofing details now. a lot of times you should start with the actual door. there's ways to tune up an old door. >> uh-huh. >> in terms of the dosticks or it's rubbing when you open it. there are ways to address that without changing the whole door. >> people are worried about security issues which drives them to replace the door with a solid core door. a glass door you can put clear or plastic or grills, there are lots af ways.

>> the best ways for security we have security film you can't tell it's there. you take a hammer to it and can the glass will crack and not break. that's a painless way for security. i would say most of the old doors eshg specially entry doors are such a quality of lumbar and thickness they are not easy to break. as long as the lock and the area around the strike are reinforced. there would not be a lot of security to gain by replacing a lot of the doors. a couple of exterior elements. porches and front steps are a common problem for leaks you have settlement and shrinkage on the steps and porches and you have to stay on top of that.

>> if you keep your house clean the exterior the facade and stairs you are apt to see where the leaks are or areas prone to leaking expansion and contraction. the older stairs some have concrete. those are areas that will need maintenance. >> especially where concrete or stone abuts wood ask they have different shrinkage rates. you will see a crack that needs to be addressed calked or flashed. >> spend money on the waterproofing details because if you spend that little investment in extra waterproofing and better flashing it's a gift that deep keeps on giving it's something you will not spend later. we took rotting pin flashings off the buildings.

>> galvanizing lasts a long time but it will get old. we use copper and steel. the price is neg ot a big investment. >> reasonable maintenance spend the money on appropriate materials. and pay attention to panlt. all the expense in paints is in the prep and the application. it's not in the cost of the paint itself. don't look for cheap paint. we will save 5 bucks a gallon after you spend thouz annasands you get cheap paint. >> i have a brick chimney. i tried to raise the chimney

back to the roof diaphragms. what experience you have on the brick chimneys? >> we have a couple of structural engineers that has done this brick work. >> i haven't but as a chair ever a committee i will give a politically incorrect answer. if the chimney is not an historic element take it down for safety reasons replace it with a wood framed or metal chimney. that's for safety reasons. i understand in san francisco and elsewhere that a beautiful old brick chimney adds a lot of character. it sometimes the chimney is holding up the house and not the other way around. they can be braced but the amount of free standing above the roof line is a hazard a

reinforces masonry chimney is better. the eninforced ones will crumble to a pile. the reinforced will tip to the neighbor's yard or to the driveway. if they pull out from where they are attached. the easiest is to replace the bricks with a light weight chimney. water heaters if there are 2 things i recommend for quake safety is the chimney and the water heater. they are not structural items. >> can you mention what you do to a water heater? >> strapping. that's required. you get the detail from the hardware store it's an afternoon project. >> and allows you to have drinking water in case of an earthquake. you don't need bottled water it

has a valve at the bottom. >> we are talking about old historic buildings dot advocates have a view on old chimneys. >> let's ask a well known advocate of historic preservation. >> save the chimney in any way you can. well are ways to line the chimney. there are also technologies that i as a practitioner not familiar with would be my suggestion you get in touch with the preservation architect to look the the possibility of retaining the chimney before you decide you want to tear it down. >> the answer is what's the chimney like and where is it. there are chimneys that are okay

to replace and others are a sin to replace. a huge of allowing garages to be in historic buildings where they have an impact on the facade. a big issue the planning department is considering something. you have comments on parking and the issues of automobiles. >> parking and other issues, when you have a historic home and adapting it to historic character. nobody wants a historic kitchen. kitchen, grablgs and things like that require creative adaptive reuse. if properly designed, most homes could benefit from having a garage. there are some homes that there is no tasteful way to do. i think those homes should forget having a garage. >> i went along the row of painted ladies and they all have

a row of garages. those are the icons of san francisco. they all have garages. let's talk about the other interior and hardware issues. go back and talk about doors. here's inn exterior door set. how does one retain and maintain hardware like this. you don't want to replace should go like that. if you do it will be expensive. vsx+or?3vy÷voa;lñr you can rep parts. you buy a house and there's no key. you take this out -- >> have that replaced. you get it all rekeyed. there's one there. >> you don't have to replace the hardware. >> you don't have to replace it. i'm working on a large