out there to walk barefoot across the sand. out there where at times you are carrying 100 pounds of water, where you are carrying water in your hands, you are carrying water on your back, everything is about waterity there. you bury your water, you pick up your water, you strap it to your body. i remember on one of the trips carrying all this weight on my back and not sure why i had all this weight on my back. it was making me so clumsy, it was dragging me around and i started trying to unclip it and unbuckle all this stuff that i was carrying out on the dunes so i could get rid of it finally until i realized, wow, you have really put a lot of buckles on this. you didn't want this stuff off you. it's water. don't drop your water. keep carrying it. drink it. this landscape is all about water. and on the last trip you can see the sea of cortez out there

on the horizon. we walked to the edge of the dunes and even out there, just past the edge of the dunes, you would find places where there's -- there were piles of pottery, pottery scattered in the sand, and then the desert pan extended out and then you reach the sea of cortez that lies beyond. you know, i should -- i want to show you guys these next slides. i'm kind of running out of time here but i've got to show you this place. i'm not going to go into heavy detail, i want to take you down here into the sierra madre. i was following routes all over for the house of rain, trying to figure out where the anastazi went when they left house of rain. many of them made the modern

pueblos but other groups continued south. i followed pottery trails down into the sierra madre where my wife and two others went out and we came to these cliff dwellings. it seemed like every single cave we looked into had cliff dwellings. and this wasn't a place with trails. this wasn't a known location. many of these sites were pristine. they were just -- it looked as if people had just left suddenly, just like all the stories in here. little cliff dwellings, little granaries, little sites falling apart. larger sites. this site went actually 5 layers deep into this cave.

very particular to this region were these shaped storage rooms. this one is about 10 feet high. often they would have door stones sealing them on the top. and they were of all kinds of shapes and sizes, but they specific to that area. that's the smallest one we found. and then this is the largest one, about 15 feet tall. now, where these have fallen over, they have broken open and you can see that they were just full of material. there's a woven mat right up there that's fallen out of that one. these sites were just covered with corn cobs where we'd go in and find a cache of corn cobs about 4 feet deep and 12 feet long, thousands and thousands of corn cobs and woven material all over the place, pieces of

basketry, pieces of their sandals. this place is very well preserved. i mean a lot of this stuff is obviously worn, but it's been sitting there for 500 years. and what i found there that was very specific to anastazi were t-shaped doorways. you can see a large t-shape here. this is a very specific symbol that you see in chaco canyon and you see in mesa verde. there are certain sites where they are finding t-shaped alters where pieces of stone about this size had been cut into t's and are standing up inside of rooms just covered with objects, with necklaces. so the shape obviously had some

meaning. but it is a clear anastazi shape. it is a clear shape from the colorado plateau. we do see it in calinke, you see it in certain incan sites in south america. so it might be a pan american feature. i'm not sure what it is. some hopi people have told me that the t, the bottom of the t, goes down into a mythical underground lake so this is an upside down mountain that leads down into a place called the house of rain. that is where twyla, probably oldest american deity, the rain deity, lives down in the house of rain and this is a t shape from up on the colorado plateau and that is the last picture on these slides, so -- the t

shape, the pottery, i followed genetic information that you find in bones and teeth. i followed as many different pieces of information as i could and they sent me walking. i started in chaco canyon and walked north up to mesa verde, around to comb ridge in utah, down into the hopi mesa, across the mugion rim, to mexico and then into the sierra madre, following people, following routes. because everything in the desert leaves a route that leads you somewhere. everything out there is a story. and that's what i'm following, these stories, looking for ways, looking for grains of sand out of place, looking for stories out in the middle of nowhere. i can open this up for questions if anybody has any

questions. . >> i was wondering if they had any sort of metal or did they use hardened rocks of some sort to shape their stones? . >> most of what they did was stone. metallurgy was just starting to move up into northern chijuajua at that time and they were working with copper. that was just ornamental, so there was no metal going on at all other than imported bells. >> and the shells, they went down to cortez -- not lake -- the cortez sea to get, was that mostly hard or brittle? . >> it was hard but not tool hard. the colorado plateau is covered with chert, a glassy rock that is really really good for making tools, making very sharp edges.

you find there are pieces of chert all over the place and you can still cut your skin open very quickly with it and it's been sitting out in the open. >> where does chert come from? . >> it's a marine rock that's mostly silica. you find it in these layers, sandstone layers. if you are especially in a marine or water environment, you will find this layer of chert. it's in all colors, purple, green, red, blue. it's a beautiful rock. . >> one thing i wanted to ask you, the review in the paper recently on sunday said that your book is different from all the other books about the anastazi because you brought out some of the non-flattering parts of their culture like

violence. how did you conclude that they were a violent culture? . >> well, i didn't necessarily conclude they were a violent culture, i just concluded there was violence in their culture. the evidence is very clear where you find masker sites, where every place you drop a trench there are bodies, unburied bodies missing their heads, in some cases where there will be a head in one room and you can match it up to the body which is in another room 100 yards away and they didn't just end up there; somebody took the head off. and there will be places where it's all femurs, all gathered together. and places where it's obviously some kind of warfare event where people are all huddled into one spot and they have all been burned there. the record is very clear of some intense violence and it comes up at a very certain point in time. it comes up in the 10th century right before large migrations you see this layer of violence.

and it doesn't cover everything. sometimes a series of pueblos will all be destroyed over here and then a series of pueblos over here are in perfect condition as far as the walls aren't broken down, there aren't bodies all over the place. it looks like the place was left very peacefully or ceremoniously where you can see they left artifacts out. different people had different ends but you can see where different people had unfortunate ends. i don't want to get into the details, it's in the book, but fairly grisly evidence.

there are pockets of violence. these were human beings. some of the anastazi were beautiful, wise, balanced with the earth people and it's like, no, they were us, doing their neolithic stone age thing but still us, human beings living in a place, chopping each other into little pieces sometimes and living lives of prosperity at other times. >> we have time for one more question. >> was the global warming when they were (inaudible) greenland and a cathedral there and i believe the maya moved from the lowlands to the highlands and the anastazi came down to the salt river. >> yeah, a lot of the movement was based on climate. the anastazi were always moving.

the whole thing about the disappearing anastazi, you go to where they are living and they disappear all of a sudden. but you follow them and find, oh, 10 years later they are over here and 70 years later they are over here. they are often being driven by these climate changes which on the colorado plateau, very small changes make you go. if you lose one inch of precipitation in one year, you got to get up to the mesas where there's a little more rain and then when the frost comes in too early, you got to get down to the desert. around 1276 or so the water was running out, the seasons were no good, and i think they just looked at their trade routes and said let's follow these and go south. they were always getting pushed around by the environment. . >> okay, thank you, craig, so much. thank you for coming. craig is happy to take some more informal questions in back

and of course his book, house of rain, is available for sale in back too. thank you so much and thank you, craig childs. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

>> good evening i am the director of the culture association and devoted to the program and here we have master of arts. (applause). (speaking spanish)

(speaking spanish). >> what he is saying that thanks to the bant. bante he got funding for of the peru vaifian culture and got approved. >> (speaking spanish).

>> okay. >> good. (speaking spanish). >> so we have a variety of instruments -- that we're going to be showing you. >> (speaking spanish). >> the name of the instrument is called tale boheha. >> (speaking spanish). >> it was a time in peru when the africans were prohibited

from playing or making instruments. >> (speaking spanish). >> so they were forced to make their own instruments. >> (speaking spanish). >> so they use the surroundings and big jars and they used to have water or other type was drinks. >> (speaking spanish). >> covered with leather skin. >> (speaking spanish). >> and they make the drums. >>. >> (speaking spanish).

(drums). (applause). >> (speaking spanish). >> this instrument is called dungo. >> spr (speaking spanish). >> we have two but only one was used. >> (speaking spanish).

>> this is one that was used north of the capital. >> (speaking spanish). >> in the cities of the country >> (speaking spanish). >> when he was a child he was able to see those instruments and on extension today.

(drums). (applause)

. >> this is a donkey's jaw. it could be a horse or a donkey. >> donkey's jaw. >> and it's played by spiking it and to make the rattle sound and also creates this.

(applause). >> (speaking spanish) sorry.

(speaking spanish). >> this is the kahita and it is created as the -- i don't know that word. how do you say that? the piggy bank. you know where the boxes and the churches collect money? yeah. this is the original he here. yeah. >> (speaking spanish) (laughing)

(speaking spanish). >> this instrument is called c carete and with the right hand and the left hand and open and shuts in a rhythmic time. >> (speaking spanish).

>> so this instrument is called sen sero but it's actually a cow bell. >> (moo). >> it was made out of material. >> (speaking spanish). >> but for the african and any instrument that create a rhythm or a sound will become an

instrument. (speaking spanish) (applause). >> (speaking spanish). >> these are the spanish influences. >> (speaking spanish).

>> they adapted to the style of this type of music (applause). >> (speaking spanish).

>> these are just simple spoons, kitchen spoons. (applause). >> (speaking spanish). >> and here we have our principle instrument. >> (speaking spanish). >> the name of this instrument is called cajon. >> (speaking spanish).

>> in certain places in africa this instrumentality existed. >> (speaking spanish). >> and the percussionist will play with their hands and their feet. >> (speaking spanish). >> with the african slave trade he used to be in the ports. this type of boxes. >> (speaking spanish)