yee? commissioner yess -- yee: i went to make sure we stay focused. i am not here to discuss about the merits of jrotc. a few years ago, there were enough people on the board you wanted to support the program and find a creative way to do that, and we came up with a creative way to offer the physical education for independent study, knowing that we also needed a credentialed teacher in pe, and there was agreed at the time that this sounded like a great way to go,

and people meaning the adults here seemed to agree that, ok, if this is the only way we can get this done at this point, because of the restrictions that are put upon us by the state in terms of them not giving us a straight answer for anything, my assumption, maybe i made the wrong assumption, is that what that meant was that the adult instructors who needed to get the credential in agreeing that they would actually pursue it, because this program for me is about the kids. it is not about the adults. and that is why i am supporting it, so here we are. and i was the author of that resolution to create that possibility. i feel like i am not too sure what the adults are tellingly,

that, by the way, just make the resolution and i will laugh in your face, left in the board face because we passed it. why should we even bother extending this? because the purpose of this is not about whether jrotc is good or not. it is about providing a creative way. until something changes, we have to continue providing that creative mechanism to offer that to students, so talking about the program with kids coming up, i would not support this. this gives it away for me. i do not want the adults to come here and say, well, sure, but do

what ever you need to do so i can keep my job, it and it is not about that. it is about keeping the program. if you do not want to work on keeping this program, then go find something else to do. we need to find people who are willing to play by our rules, so i am sorry i feel that way, so i am very mixed with this. i want to offer an amendment to this, an amendment would read, and i do not know where to put it, but one of the further resolve's, any new instructor of jrotc to the district, that the district hires, will have the necessary certification and/or credential to provide general supervision of independence steadyin pe.

-- independent study in pe. president mendoza: we need a second? i will second. commissioner v -- yee; we need to be able to do this without doing this every couple of years. president mendoza: i need a roll call. commissioner: i wanted to make a comment. the person he said that nobody is going to go and get the credential, which i think is what was issued here, there was not adequate time. we just made up the two-year time, and people were working on their degrees and making

progress, but there was not time to do it. i think that is what is being said, and that is what i was told. i do not think that we are shooting the requirement that we do that. it has been difficult, and they have limited resources to try to offer the support that is needed. commissioner yee: i want to make it, after the roll call in response to commissioner wynns. separate:. -- secretary: [reading roll] that is five eyes. president mendoza: did you want to finish your comment?

commissioner yee: what i was looking for was any attempt to even get there. i could be wrong. my own knowledge, because nobody stepped forward to tell me anything, from my understanding, there was no attempt to even take any courses, so that is what makes the difference for me. if they had said to me, "oh, yes, we have really tried and took these courses." mysak -- my daughter is going to school for her master's. she is taking time to have courses after work, but she is not going to finish in two years, her master's program. i know that.

"i have taken courses a, b, and see, and i need more time." i am hoping people will make an effort to honor a resolution. president mendoza: thank you. commissioner norton? commissioner norton: i can only speak for myself, but i do not think at the time i support this resolution that i was clear on what credential they would need to acquire, plans and as our public -- as an education department has said, a pe credentialing is one thing, a california credential is another. if we have required them to take

a multiple subject credential, they could have done that without doing some of the other student teaching and other things that would have been required under a pe credential, so i do not think we were clear enough or specific enough about what we were requiring people to do, and i think in addition, i do not think that, in retrospect, that staff was particularly helpful at first in laying out for the instructors what they needed to do to obtain the necessary credentials for the board. i think that in retrospect the two years was unrealistic. in addition, all of this has been because of the changes to the physical education framework that were done by the board and at the state level. prior to 2009, we were perfectly

in compliance by offering rotc as an alternative in the ninth and 10th grades. it had nothing to do with rotc at all. if this board wants to continue to support this program, it seems to me we should be putting the pressure where it belongs, which is at the state level to allow this board to give, to have rotc to have this before the requirement, because that was our policy. i am a little disconcerted by this proposal. as commissioner yee said, we have not been able to get a straight word out of several entities. what does that mean? does that have to come back to

the board again? does everyone still need to have a physical education credential if we decide not to do independent study? it seems to me it raises a lot of questions for the future, and i think i can speak for everyone on the board that we would not rather come up every two or three years because i think all of us are tired of talking about it and fighting about it. i do not know if staff, and i do not know if anyone can clarify what aipac might be for the board in light of the amendment we just passed, because it seems to me the superintendent laid out in his recommendations some options on how we might proceed in allowing teachers to supervise the independent study, because that seems to have been the issue, because the physical education department feels that it is an undue burden to supervise this independent study on top of meat -- the rotc

program. president mendoza: commissioner? commissioner: the administration, our jobs are to follow whenever the decisions the board makes, so if the board made this decision, which it did, that in two years it ended, so we had to come and figure out a way to bring it to you and say, "ok, what do you want to do now?" i will tell you we have had discussions with the teaching credentialing. we have the discussions with a lot of people in sacramento. so far, that decision has to be made by the teaching credentialing office. it is not a decision that anyone else really makes. it is made by them.

if, indeed, they changed that, then we would probably be coming back to the board to say they had changed their credentialing requirements, and then we bring their consideration to the board. that is pretty much what we would have to do since the amendment is already passed. we would come back, if, indeed, it changed. having this discussion for four years, and whether it changes is anybody's guess, ok? >> can i asked our attorney? i do not know what it would say, but if this changes, that if the state rules change, and suddenly it does not require a pe credential for the board to a lowrotc to meet the pec -- pe

requirements, can we propose some language to do that? >> the answer is yes. you can include as part of the motion that should be c either thetc or any other state lot -- that either the ctc or any other state law will change that that would be considered as an amendment. commissioner: i would like to hear what my colleagues think. i do not think any of us think that the independent study is the perfect solution. to my mind, it was a main purpose solution to the problem. if this board does support rotc

and generally supports the principle that we should allow the course to substitute for the pe requirement, we could revert our policy back without us having to take this up and do this charade every time. president mendoza: i think we understand what you're saying. commissioner maufas: there are a couple of things that i wanted to voice. first of all, i appreciate vice president yee's amendment. it is just needed. the issue, myself being a board member that did not support this resolution that we have before us that we are trying to extend,

the issue was not -- it was about physical education and what we understand being part of the education system here in san francisco is that within the jrotc instructors, it is not equivalent, and to get them to go and get credentialed and to continue with an ongoing professional development, so that is an expectation that we have your. that has not changed from four years to now, and even the insinuation that for some reason, we were confused, it was too vague . we didn't understand, the instructors do not know, they could not figure it out, not even an attempt to find some way

to participate in further education does not make any sense to me, so i was not confused. i did not even support it. i would see somebody moving and shaking to try to get further agitated to become a teacher. yes, it was an ongoing issue. i clearly understood the expectation, and i want to make sure it does not get out there and starts running on its own. there was no confusion. we expected and still expect

that if you are working with students in the school district, you are expected to not only get your education but to continue that, because that is what education is about. it is an ongoing process, and if we work with kids, that is the process. that is what we do here. that should not be something we are confused about or have trouble to attempt to start. let's not start muddying the waters with that conversation. i am very clear on that, and i think everyone else is. i do not want this to get any more traction. i apologize, but this cannot move any further along. i very clearly understand that our physical education teachers working in the san francisco unified school district have a credential, and they get ongoing professional development, and a further go to get national board certification while they are

working, so it is not impossible. it is hard. that is true. but it is not impossible, and how badly do you want to stay working with kids in this school district prove that is your testimony. that is your testimony. i want to work with kids so badly. i want to mentor kids so much, i want to impact their lives and have them go and do good things in the world, and yet i have been in the military for so many number of years, but by the way, i understand this is what is required here in the san francisco unified school district, that i need more education, so, yes, i have to go back to school, and i may be with people of what young bear with me and who do not have gray hair. so what? i want to work with kids, and this is the requirement. i know it has been said before,

so i am not saying anything new. kids are here to say that they want to work with you and what you to work with them. so the idea that it is tough to do or cannot do it or i cannot muster a up, it does not make any sense to me as a board member, because you do it because you want to work with kids and mentor them in impact their lives in a positive way. a positive way for those students. i absolutely, absolutely support this credential teachers in the school district, and i respect the work they do, and i believe anybody wanting to do that type of work with our kids need to make swift steps towards that, and that is inappropriate education and the appropriate credential. president mendoza: commissioner

fewer? commissioner fewer: can i comment on other things? >> we are having a discussion about the entire resolution and amendment only made by it vice president yee. i am one of those who did not support this. that we hire credentialed

teachers to hire students to teach our students in the subject they teach. we asked -- ask our pe teachers to get a degree and then get credentialed, and many of them are still paying off loans, as we would any history or math teacher, so i support this as a policy in our district, that we hire credentialed teachers to be credentialed in the subject in which they teach. it is very simple. they're able to give elective credit. i know we have heard a lot tonight. jrotc notan a g approved class -- is not cough -- is not an a

through g approved class or elective. there are many who get credit through a credentialed teacher. that is very different. so i also wanted to mention that we called at the committee meeting last june, and the fellow curriculum committee members may remember this, we called the independent study option at the committee meeting, and we heard a lot of problems. we heard it from teachers and students and some parents came. there was a lot of confusion. i asked at that time that the district staff support a reporter was on recommendations of what would make the independent study option easier to implement and more effective and efficient for students and for the supervising pe teachers.

i never received that report, and i do not know why. this is a very political topic. hearing this again tonight, i respectively requested the report three times and did not receive it. i do not know how this board can extend an option that we know has problems at the school site without even looking at the recommendation of how you make the program better for the next two years. also, we did not hear a clear budget. thank you deputy superintendent, but some of the teachers have to supervise many, many students in this option, and that was one of the issues at the school sites, saying who would do it? are they being compensated? how will they be compensated? what is the money? because actually, it is on top of their regular pe job that

they are the supervising teacher for this option. i am with commissioner yee on this, it is not that they have completed the credentialing, they have not enrolled. they have not enrolled. x -- human-resources did not tell me. i just do not buy it. this is board policy. i believe every one of the instructors knew what the policy was. i think that clearly people again feel very strongly about jrotc, but i feel very strongly that those instructors should be able to give the credit what they are credentials for, which is a jrotc elective class.

and physical education teacher should be able to give credits for that class that they are credentials for, which is a physical education. this board adopted unanimously our physical education master plan, emphasizing the need for physical education, so i know that people have their own feelings about pe growing up, and i was not very good at it either, but this is a new note -- a new pe, and i want our students in the 21st century knowing about their body. and i want them credentialed in the studies they teach. once again, i will say that i think i firmly believe that every teacher in this district at the basic bare minimum should be credentialed in the subject in which they teach, and i think

our students deserved it, and as parents, i think we should demand it. thank you. president mendoza: thank you. commissioner? commissioner: i have three comments and want to make an amendment. i had the opportunity to get to know a student, and she called to tell me about a promotion she got, and she comes from a disadvantaged background, and it meant so much for her, so i really want to thank the students who came out to share their stories with us. i really believe the program is training for leadership and life skills. i support racheal's idea about the position on jrotc, where it is a substitute for pe.

i would welcome that change. i supported the amendment right now. given the current state of what the state is saying about jrotc, i do believe in long term fix is to provide supervision, but i want to offer an amendment, et -- amendment, because i do not think this is there to oppose this on long time instructors who were playing by the rules, and the rules changed, and expect them to go out and get that pe certification. my amendment would be that the supply, obtaining the necessary certification, apply to newjrotc instructors as the old

instructor's retire, as people get hired in, that those progra. introducing this to teachers midway or later in their career is really too demanding, so i am offering an amendment that this applies only to new instructors hired into the jrotc. >> just for clarity, commissioner, what was voted in was to have anyone knew that comes in the already credential, so, yes, so we are already doing that. that is all you wanted? we thought you wanted to waive other people. we were all over your going -- ok.

so you are ok with that. ok, perfect. president mendoza: commissioner wynnls. commissioner wyo -- wynns: all of those that teach the art credentials, and i want to thank them for their work. building on what commissioner norton said, i remember when we were talking about the independndent study option and y to sort of come up with this seat of our pants, that we had at the time some confusion about whether an independent study option of any kind would require a person credentialed in that subject to teach it. we were a little not clear about the interaction of the new state regulations, which were just coming up the time.