people dig through their change purse and everyone is kept waiting knows this is a system that needs to change. i would suggest the problems are problems of perception rather than problems of reality. the issue that tom just raised can be addressed simply by explaining up front and in detail how we will handle enforcement. i have every confidence the three of you will not put in a plan that unfairly target certain groups based on impermissible categories. if we explain -- if we go to lengths to dispel any misperceptions of how we're doing it. there is the other end of the spectrum.

muni is encouraging the people we see cheating entering through the back door. it is a matter of months, not years, before there is another letter to the editor saying if many would stop people from boarding on the back door, it could close its budget gap. that is not true, but that is the perception of our fare- paying riders. they are paying their fair share and others are not. i would want to explain how we're going to have a robust fare evasion enforcement program and why we're doing this. it does occur to me through the discussion we have some empirical data. we have rear-door boarding on muni trains at service level.

have we look to see because folks are allowed to board in the outlying area through the back door, that has led to greater fare evasion? have we look at that issue? >> there was an analysis that the unit did two years ago that look that fare evasion -- look at fare evasion. it was lower on the rail lines but that is where the greatest deployment of the transit fare inspectors is. i do not know -- that is apples to apples. there is differences in enforcement for the rail line. some of it is controlled area. will we do know is that boarding and fair transaction process takes a lot of time. i think the folks were evading

fares would be evading fares by going through the back door and doing so. i think you're right. being very clear and explicit about how we're going to enforce what will be important. more importantly there is an opportunity through better education and better deployment of the fair inspectors to reduce through this process, to reduce fare evasion. the numbers are pretty high. someone who appearpays my fair,s frustrating when you see people who it appears are not paying. we need to get the win-win trade where we unable -- enable all-

door boarding. so we reduce the overal fare evasion. >> i agree with what you have said. i would say at the same time we're announcing and implementing this policy, we should be articulating a clear policy. i think it will address the misperceptions or perhaps correct perceptions on either side of the spectrum i have described. and then showing my eagerness, my question is this. how far out do you think we are to a situation where we could have mandatory prepayment of affairs? to take the cash out of the system? >> maybe some exemptions for the f line. let's say that the holidays --

the rush hours, get yourself a prepaid fare instrument or you cannot write that line. >> one of the biggest issues is what to do with transfers. if part of the discussion will be the implementation, transfers and all fares on clipper, that could reduce the cash. i would say 12% to 15% pay by cash regularly. we -- there is a lot of prepaid fare media. >> 12% to 15% are paying. how much of the boarding time and attention are they taking? it is more than their fair share. in addition to saying you have to follow our rules, i am not saying we have to do this in conjunction with back door boarding.

we need to look at some point we need to ask you to prepay and make that easier to speed that up. >> that is part of the proposal to enhance the prepaid opportunities. there is -- we have gotten the low hanging fruit. there may be more to be had. there are some folks who will be harder to reach and folks who even if it makes financial sense for them to get a fast pass, do not necessarily have the cash flow to do so. having options more at retail outlets, once we have those machines, we're much better positioned to go into any kind of restrictions on cash fair or render them unnecessary. >> i support this and getting

rid of cash fares. what kind of time are we looking at a to figure out the implementation schedule for all- door boarding? >> through the chair, the question i was expecting. i think in the best case we could do something as soon as the next calendar year. to the extent we identify we have a budget needs to make this happen such as more transit fare inspectors or ticket vending machines or other costs, we may need to build that into the budget process. we have not budgeted any expenditures for this in the current budget. that puts this in a window of the first half of next fiscal year. we certainly would like to do something sooner rather than later.

i do not want to promise something we cannot deliver. >> as a possible to estimate or ballpark the dollar savings that we could anticipate by speeding up the buses and reducing time? >> every minute is millions of dollars, mr. strassner's. >> budgeting around that estimate would be dicey. i think john had a slide on evaluation trade want to evaluate this. there has been a lot of data. the next presentation is on tep. every mile an hour savings. >> i wanted to make sure it is not fully about customer convenience.

not only about speeding up the transit. it is about saving us money and saving operating costs. >> i would suggest we take these two issues that were suggested and be as productive as possible. identifying groups that feels this way. people who are talking about cheaters. that could be op-ed pieces and the kind of thing. there are groups representing certain communities. we have heard from them before. approaching them and trying to do something. also hearing their concerns first hand. >commissioner oka: i know for a fact if i don't have to reach in my pockets to get money out to pay the fair, it makes it easier. the clipper card has made it

much easier for me to do with boarding. even though this -- [unintelligible] everybody is going to have to, i think the instruments that people with disabilities and others with dexterity problems, handling small coins and that kind of thing, we would make it easier by making it faster for people aboard -- who board. there are some ideas on that, too. i would support going to a no

cash eventually. commissioner ramos: thank you for following up on this and bringing us this today. i know there are a few people, some advocates who have been pushing on this for a while. i have been pushing on this, dreaming about it every time i see or sitting on a bus waiting for folks to single file to the front door. and to help people realize what this might mean -- and now imagine the kind of restriction being put on our buses. and something that we have the power to lift. just like that. i do not see what would be so confusing. what the concern from the cac

was in regards to what to do. you have to have paid a fair. it is not that confusing. when you get on any of the cars, you do not need the citation. you are on the approval of payments on. it is not the confusing. with respect to ticket vending machines, we have mobile ticket vending machines on every single one of our coaches, that is where we can pay if we do not have approved payment to get onto the back doors. i do not think we have the luxury to delay this anymore than we have to. we're constantly being burdened with shortcomings in terms of meeting our budget and attracting and increasing more revenue. this is one way i feel we can save so much more money. the folks that we're concerned about, the scofflaws that are cheating the system, whether or

not there is a perfect payment system in placer not, there will continue to cheat the system. we're held hostage on account of a few folks. there are some folks that might be nervous or paranoid that someone is not paying their fair. that would be up to the inspectors to work out. i want to emphasize the urgency on this. i think we are burning money. it is the same kind of i feel the delays we have when our packed buses are forced to sit in traffic and not have dedicated lanes. even if they are not permanent. if there are dedicated lanes that are not being enforced or if are -- they are not temporary. we do not have the luxury of waiting and working through to the perfect and sacrificing the good as a result. if we can move forward as fast as we can. i would appreciate it and the

riders would. thank you. >> we do have members of the public. >> i would ask if somebody could put slide 13, the one that is on the powerpoint on the screen for the viewing audience. that illustrates the safety concern i have sent to you folks year after year after year after year. it is the same safety concern that is not mentioned in this report. the same safety concern that not one of the impact upon. take a look at that picture. there is to very unusual things about it. first, the report says you are going to put signage telling people, let's everybody get off before you get on a back door.

that is not happening. there are signs saying, do not get on the back door. you have a communication reliability problem. second, and worse, it is the issue that the director raised. the buses at the curb. when it is not at the curb, the rear doors are higher of the payment. -- off the pavement. i was at a major retirement home. i had to take the second. the front door that kneeled, when you do not have the buses pulling in to the curb and it is higher, there is a greater chance that someone will slip and fall. when you're out passengers pushing on into the back door while others are getting out, you have an injury problem. previous times, have set this,

even your counsel took note. -- previous times when i have said this, even your council tosel took note. do not do this until you know you will get compliance. >> howard strassner, howard wong, robert boden. >> i can support the generality of all door boarding as fast as possible and smoothly as possible. one of the things that came up, why do we have a differential for cash fair. i am glad this discussion we have had more from all door boarding 20 cash and complete

clipper cards. if the cash fair became instant of $2 you had to pay three or $4, everybody would find out where to get their clipper card. everybody. you do the same thing for seniors, we would find the clipper card dispensary and it would not have to put so many machines in. the hotels would tell people, if we have one in the lobby, you go down to the walgreens or there is one where you get off the airport. there will be a clipper card and you had better get it. it will cost extra. every gstr system -- fare system would be on the card. that would be part of your clipper card.

i am happy that it morphed into this. doesn't assure you the need for well-designed buses? even now if disabled folks need the bus that nails, they will go in the front. the rest of us can jump higher in the back. all this will work. this will take pr and a lot of discussion. the cash fair -- fare will cost more. >> i got mixed up with the agenda items. i support the out -- all door

boarding. also what was being mentioned about the curbside buses not pulling in to the curb. i live in a residential out of sunset. one aboard the bus especially when the hybrid buses when the rap deploys onto the street, many times i mentioned it to you guys. i am concerned about the safety of these buses. i do not know we can do about it as far as creating more bus zones in these neighborhoods. to board safely, we need to look

into that. more curbside parking. like noriega, judah, balboa. all of them are mixed use. maybe we can work together to find out how we can make it more safe for people with disabilities. it is not just people with disabilities, it is everybody. everybody has to go out on the street level to board. everyone has to stand on that and hopefully you guys can support it. thank you. >> next speaker. >> robert boden, jim frank, mario tenev. >> i am here to represent the

members of the san francisco wrote transit riders union -- san francisco transit riders union. we are in full support. our membership supports this and we're pleased that the sfmta is considering it. you have a win-win-win. it is not just good for riders, it is good for the agency. we have done it on the rap on -- on the system already. it is an example of how things can work. i had some quick points here. we can shorten the troubled times. i read an article that 20% of the time, muni spends time boarding people. it is poor service for

customers. it is amazing when you can speed up service and have quicker trips and also save the agency money. it is a great idea. we have this in place with a light rail system. there are not ticket vending machines at every stop. a lot of issues that have been brought up as problems, they do not exist on the light rail system. the system has among the highest percentage of paying riders. on the bus system, people know there will be rarely fare inspectors. they can get away without having to pay the fare. to increase -- we ask you expeditiously implement this. preferably the winter of 2011 or

2012. >> our next speakers. >>chairman nolan: the afternoon. >> i am a member of the transit riders union. i am fighting for the rider. a few basic points about all door boarding. we totally supported. this is great for the drivers because they can focus more on driving rather than worry about it someone pay or not pay? it will address some of the fare evasion issues. in the ideal, it would be consistent enforcement. it would be on the bus. when you get on, you know that you have the potential the fair inspector will be there. it will be comfortable. five or six doors open up, you get on and it is quick. people get off, you know how to do it. but the new people get on.

the buses can be the same way. that would be nice. it works in lots of different places. los angeles, new york city, vancouver, toronto, ottawa, all across europe. as many places as use this, it does work. chairman nolan: next speaker. >> i am also with the san francisco transit riders union. when we ask riders with the one most, the tops -- thing is always reliability. -- the tough thing is always reliability. all door boarding will provide high reliability and will do it in two ways. by speeding up trips and decrease the variants of the

running time. the second way is by speeding up trips, some equipment will be released. resources will be released and can be reused for redundancy and improving the schedule on-time arrival. i would want to emphasize again that ticket vending machines will be great at some intersections. conditioning is further delayed. we would like to see a ruled out for people who already use clipper and everyone else can board through the front. to those concerns, the expectation of the writers -- riders is most important. they have their fair ready and -- fare ready and evasion is lower. i urge you to implement all door

boarding as soon as possible. >> our next speakers. i read some comments on line on this issue. i do have to say, i already like the directors reality check. he tells the truth. i am telling you, there is a lot of issues that have to be dealt with before you implement it. so, the one issue i have is when people need to get off the bus, you have people crowding around the back door, you cannot get off the bus. how do you do with that issue? that is discouraging for people trying to leave the bus.

the enforcement part is with the inspectors. if you do not have enough inspectors or do not focus them properly, or you only do discrimination with certain nationalities or ethnic groups where they live or travel, you have problems. i was hoping you would do a pilot program. to not so much get the -- to get the inspectors trained on it.

why do i have to pay when people get on the buses for free the underground to get -- you have to have to get machines if you eliminate the cash fair. >> our next speaker. >> i will be brief. this issue has been back and forth, back and forth. i want someone to make up their minds. either they will move forward with it or not. because at the end of the road, your drivers, my members are the ones in the front. but if we keep shifting from one

policy from one time to another time and you have been here, mr. nolan longer than some other directors and we have that issue a lot. i do not want to see that issue again. on the other hand, what other policy you guys agree, please let us know in advance. not to find out that i have got it here. this issue was brought up. the other issue i have and this has to be worked out. there are logistics' that have to be worked out. those buses we have, they cannot take the punishment you are willing to give them. we need to reinforce them. we need to look at everything. not on safety. -- not just performance. >> i am also a member of the san